Notch 6 #83. Lionel moving into Bluetooth Technology

Marty, I do wonder why Lionel doesn't add the sensor tracks and LCS to their York platform, it would be a great addition.  The addition of a large screen so everyone could see the LCS screen would really be cool.

John it's such a small thing to be done that would garner some interest in LCS components. It will babysit itself. An engine goes over a track and the name, direction is displayed. A switch throws, it's displayed. The new sensor boxcar, many folks don't understand what it can do, can be shown. After that the only thing to do is answer some questions. 

Just some thoughts. Especially since they're hinting at using Bluetooth.  And the Apple TV is so easy especially since they are using the Apple platform. 

Yep, you do have to wonder why not showcase it.  The LCS is also a whole area where they have a considerable advantage over their competition, why not advertise it?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yep, you do have to wonder why not showcase it.  The LCS is also a whole area where they have a considerable advantage over their competition, why not advertise it?

They don't showcase it because IMO, its overly expensive to incorporate costly hardware into larger layouts while DCS being software based already does or can do with a DCS upgrade most LCS features with a free download...

Bottom line..  For what it has shown so far, LCS is complicated, user unfriendly and far too costly to implement

Joe 

I wish Lionel would set up an app and a demo layout using the sensor tracks to do something like this...

https://youtu.be/Ce6RcgN3duE

IMO this is the real benefit of having sensor tracks and sensors on every train. Simply recording scenarios doesn't take full advantage of what the sensor tracks could do. With the right type of program, they could be used for a fully computer controlled layout where the user selects exactly where they want trains to go and then watches them do it. The difference is that there is no need to record anything as the user can simply select routes from a list, set the order of them and then watch them play out.

JC642 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yep, you do have to wonder why not showcase it.  The LCS is also a whole area where they have a considerable advantage over their competition, why not advertise it?

They don't showcase it because IMO, its overly expensive to incorporate costly hardware into larger layouts while DCS being software based already does or can do with a DCS upgrade most LCS features with a free download...

Bottom line..  For what it has shown so far, LCS is complicated, user unfriendly and far too costly to implement

Joe 

Everybody's entitled to their opinion.   We'll have to agree to disagree that you can do all, or even a majority of what LCS can do with the current DCS equipment.

It seems Lionel may have "too many irons in the fire". Throwing a bunch of "stuff" at the wall trying to see what sticks.

S scale, toys, now H.O. scale. All the while the " meat and potatoes" o Guage stuff comes up short in one way or another. Promotion, execution, quality... you name it.

A huge red flag is a service dept not taking out of warranty repairs in the middle of the summer. What should be the "slow" time for broken toy trains.

Good luck with the blue tooth.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yep, you do have to wonder why not showcase it.  The LCS is also a whole area where they have a considerable advantage over their competition, why not advertise it?

John, I've said this about Lionel here many times.  Despite lots of movements into new areas of interest, Lionel finds themselves stuck in an older communication model, where direct communication to the consumer/enthusiast has never been their forte through NUMEROUS management changes.  On one end of the scale, the new website -- which could have been a great way to promote messages and feature new products directly to the consumer -- was an absolute disaster.  And on the other end of the scale, Lionel often seems content communicating information through their dealer network, which is certainly an integral part of getting products out to consumers.  But RELYING on dealers to communicate important "product messaging" to consumers has proven to never quite happen.  Dealers SELL -- they don't MARKET.  Lionel needs to MARKET and communicate directly to consumers, if they expect any of these new areas of product development to gain traction among enthusiasts.

Communicating to consumers directly is such a simple concept, yet it's often overlooked in this day of technological wizardry where the cost of communicating is a mere fraction of what it was years/decades ago.  Heck, Lionel could communicate these messages right here on the OGR forum for free -- but they don't do it. 

David

There are definitely lots of cool things LCS can do today. High Rail, for iPhone and iPad, provides a glimpse into what is possible. High Rail 1.0 provided a quick way to create and monitor SensorTrack recordings (without having to push the physical SensorTrack record button). This is a huge deal because it means you can put SensorTracks in "hard to reach" places. High Rail 2.0 added an innovative gesture-based engine control feature (it's really awesome). The main goal is to allow you to control your Legacy engine from your iPhone or iPad without having to stare at your device looking for a "little button". Controlling the speed, quilling the whistle, opening the couplers, initiating a system halt, changing direction, etc., can be done without having to stare at your device (at minimum it may require a quick glance). Of course, there are non-gesture based actions (e.g. turning on/off the smoke unit, controlling lights, etc.). Also, iPhone 6s users can enjoy using 3D Touch to make controlling the engine even more engaging and fun. 

I don't know where Lionel is going with WiFi vs Bluetooth (technology, marketing, etc.). Regardless, I have a long-term plan for where I am taking High Rail (as time, energy, and desire allow). If you did not know that High Rail existed, well, now you know (unless this post gets deleted). If you are a High Rail user, thanks! There will be another release very soon with another really cool feature (stay tuned).

Here’s Lionel’s “official” LCS Partner Program page:  http://www.lionel.com/lcs/LCSPartner/index.html 

Maybe the bachmann bluetooth app and boards has the others taking notice. Have never owned one but from the videos it does seem easy to use. At least lionel is exsploring new technology and not growing stagnate. Kudos to howard for keeping whith the times and what is out thier technicaly.I agree they do need more advertising of the product. Not only at train shows either.they should be doing videos about there products aimed at the beginner and itermidiate user who have never seen what this stuff can do or have never even seen it at all. Ken jr. At trainland does his engine videos to sell the product and it seems to help the with generating more sales. Maybe lionel needs to let jill do more indepth lionel product videos to promote the technology. How about on facebook and youtube sights just to name two. That where most youth seem to be if on the web.Just a thought.

If you're not doing some marketing as a dealer then you're probably losing business.  Notice I said some.  I agree the large ho chunk should be done by Lionel.

Back to my original point, LCS and Legacy IMO have not been showcased as it should be.  I realize that the trains are the number 1 push as it should be but if you feel technology is a hook to get the iGeneration to the hobby then why wouldn't you push iCab, LCS Apps, and even the LCS partners.  Again this could be done subliminally at shows with the simple addition of some sensor tracks and the LCS app running on big screens.  Questions get asked and some dialog is created.

It has been general knowledge that the repair of Legacy systems is still repaired, in most cases, under warranty.  Why?  Because Mike Reagan and the Lionel team know that without your Legacy, you Legacy engines are much less fun to operate.  I, as one of LUG hosts, would really like to see more interest in LCS and all things Legacy.  Brian above has a really great app that is doing some cool things.  Harvey Ackerman with eTrain has a cool PC program to access Legacy. These "partners" could benefit from this and vice versa.  Let folks know what a sensor track can do and you sell more.

I think a big misconception of the sensor track is that it has to be physically accessible to be programmed.  With High Rail and eTrain this is no longer the case.  I know a few people since getting these LCS partner apps have bought several more sensor tracks and added them around the layout.

Last month at the LOTS convention Lionel mentioned the HO Polar Express would be bluetooth capable.

Just to add a few more points to the discussion:

- Yes, HO Polar will have Bluetooth. This means it has 4 ways that it can be controlled conventional, Lionchief, DCC, and Bluetooth. 

- The main reason for the delay of the Lionchief universal remote is to incorporate Bluetooth technology into the remote. This was a broad statement, and I did not have a chance to dig further into exactly what this is going to mean. The Lionel team made it clear though that Bluetooth is coming to Lionchief sometime in 2017.

- It is also my understanding that there is a "Bluetooth shack" in development. From what I gathered this would allow the Bluetooth app to interface with older Lionchief products that are not out of the box Bluetooth ready. They did mention that some of the earliest Lionchief products would not work with the shack, but most will be backwards compatible.  

Notch 6 posted:

Just to add a few more points to the discussion:

- Yes, HO Polar will have Bluetooth. This means it has 4 ways that it can be controlled conventional, Lionchief, DCC, and Bluetooth. 

- The main reason for the delay of the Lionchief universal remote is to incorporate Bluetooth technology into the remote. This was a broad statement, and I did not have a chance to dig further into exactly what this is going to mean. The Lionel team made it clear though that Bluetooth is coming to Lionchief sometime in 2017.

- It is also my understanding that there is a "Bluetooth shack" in development. From what I gathered this would allow the Bluetooth app to interface with older Lionchief products that are not out of the box Bluetooth ready. They did mention that some of the earliest Lionchief products would not work with the shack, but most will be backwards compatible.  

Did they mention if this technology would be applied to Legacy?  Is this strictly a LionChief push?  I will say Lionel does an excellent job pushing the LC and LC+ platform at York so if it is just for this platform, they should do well promoting it.

As always Derek the Notch 6 Podcast were enjoyable from the LCCA convention.

Marty, I think this is only going to be a LC / LC+ push. I believe they feel they already have a well defined control system Legacy and LCS that will allow smart device use with the higher end Lionel product. 

I also just remembered that the Bluetooth app will support IOS and Android. No smart phone left behind. 

Notch 6 posted:

Marty, I think this is only going to be a LC / LC+ push. I believe they feel they already have a well defined control system Legacy and LCS that will allow smart device use with the higher end Lionel product. 

Interesting.  Well again then it would be nice if they did more to promote LCS / Legacy at the shows even if subliminally.

How about a smart phone ap which would control PowerMaster/PowerHouses.  They you could bypass a remote even for conventional layouts.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

How about a smart phone ap which would control PowerMaster/PowerHouses.  They you could bypass a remote even for conventional layouts.

It's called iCab.

Yet another control set from Lionel?  Why?  IMHO, Lionel should of worked to get TMCC/Legacy in all their stuff, skipping the whole LC/LC+ thing.  We know it can be done as MTH sells all their locomotives, entry level up to scale, with DCS control.  Even my kids (3 and 12) would rather use my Cab-1 or Cab-2 remote to drive the trains then use that colorful LC remote.  My 3 year old won't even drive his own trains anymore because he doesn't like the LC control.  When he turns the knob to stop or change directions, he expects an immediate change in the locomotive, just like on daddy's remotes.  If Lionel was so worried about the loco's bucking and coming off of the track, then but more weight in them with a stronger motor.  All I know is I'm skipping the BT train thing, and the tablet/smartphone apps too.

sinclair posted:

Yet another control set from Lionel?  Why?  IMHO, Lionel should of worked to get TMCC/Legacy in all their stuff, skipping the whole LC/LC+ thing.  ....

Can we all join in with a big A-M-E-N to that!!! 

I look at LC/LC+ as one huge distraction, and I skip over those pages in the catalog ENTIRELY.  Legacy and DCS are enough for me, and I'm in favor of anything like LCS, smartphone apps, tablet apps, etc... that builds from those technologies.   But an entirely different control system gets no traction in my mind -- not even on my radar screen.

David

I look forward to seeing how Lionel (and others) make use of the relatively low cost bluetooth (BT) technology.  Currently Bachmann is promoting BT to "run" their locos, while smaller scale Broadway Ltd employs BT to transmit the loco's sounds to a separate amplified speaker/sub-woofer (Rolling Thunder) to give much fuller sound to a loco whose scale size physically restricts any possibility of a full sound experience.

The use of BT is probably a significant cost savings for companies who do not want to invest money into the design and manufacturing of handheld controller hardware and be held hostage to technological improvements and component obsolescence.  The BT option provides every person with a modern smartphone, tablet or PC w/ BT to be able to control their equipment.  Further improvements would not be bogged down by hardware expenditures, rather be a lower cost software update that can be easily distributed over the web.  Software development as opposed to hardware will likely rule the roost.

FWIW, I would love to see ...and hear Lionel pursue the use of BT in the transmission of its great O gauge engine sounds to a separate speaker system.