Number Boards

They are train number boards, they we're intentionally made that way.

That's because Lionel modeled a Southern Pacific prototype locomotive that had just come in off a passenger run, and by SP rule, the Fireman MUST remove the train number from the Train Number Indicators as soon as the locomotive is cut-off the train. Thus, in the engine terminal, SP passenger assigned steam locomotives have NO NUMBERS in the Train Number Indicators.

Make  your own number boards and put them in place.  Sorry, that looks stupid with just a light bulb.

@Hot Water posted:

That's because Lionel modeled a Southern Pacific prototype locomotive that had just come in off a passenger run, and by SP rule, the Fireman MUST remove the train number from the Train Number Indicators as soon as the locomotive is cut-off the train. Thus, in the engine terminal, SP passenger assigned steam locomotives have NO NUMBERS in the Train Number Indicators.

Great info.      Thank you for explaining this.  

@Alabama Joe posted:

Great info.      Thank you for explaining this.  

However, I suspect most folks bought this to actually pull a train, not to run around the yard with no number boards.  IMO this is a stupid decision by Lionel!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

However, I suspect most folks bought this to actually pull a train, not to run around the yard with no number boards.  IMO this is a stupid decision by Lionel!

I think I'm with you on this one, John! 🤔🤔🤔

Mark in Oregon

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

However, I suspect most folks bought this to actually pull a train, not to run around the yard with no number boards.  IMO this is a stupid decision by Lionel!

And there you have it! So much for the "toy train manufacturers" that do NOT do sufficient research and solicit information from the various technical societies and "experts" in the prototype field.

I guess since  you've exited the hobby it really doesn't matter to you what it looks like.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I guess since  you've exited the hobby it really doesn't matter to you what it looks like.

Yes, it DOES matter to me!  I am still available to answer technical questions from any and all model train manufactures, and I DID provide information and guidance to the Lionel folks pertaining to to the specific questions they asked. Apparently the SP GS-1 model was not one of them.  

If I may...

With all the high tech stuff they are able to cram into these things, maybe they could work on some simple way to have insertible, sliding number boards(?) After all, we're not talking N scale here...

Mark in Oregon

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I guess since  you've exited the hobby it really doesn't matter to you what it looks like.

So, manufactures should listen only to folks in the hobby that perhaps don't have decades of prototype knowledge?

Rusty

@Hot Water posted:

Yes, it DOES matter to me!  I am still available to answer technical questions from any and all model train manufactures, and I DID provide information and guidance to the Lionel folks pertaining to to the specific questions they asked. Apparently the SP GS-1 model was not one of them.  

Actually, since you apparently agreed with the choice of no numbers, they followed what you would have told them, right?

@Rusty Traque posted:

So, manufactures should listen only to folks in the hobby that perhaps don't have decades of prototype knowledge?

I was thinking more along the lines of common sense.  I suspect a poll of people with and without prototype knowledge would yield a vast majority that did not like the missing number boards.   Since Lionel is in the business of satisfying the maximum percentage of it's customer base, and number boards are prototypical when pulling a consist, I don't see the missing number boards as an attribute.

Since there were obviously number boards hanging when the locomotive was in revenue service, it would be quite prototypical to have number boards.  So, even if it's prototypical once the train is cut-off to remove the number boards, that doesn't mean the model should necessarily have them missing.  At least a reasonable compromise would be to have that be an option with and without the boards for a product that is north of $2,000.

Sorry Rusty, but I don't see how your argument makes any sense in this particular case.

Either way, it is good information.     I would prefer Number Boards, but life goes on.     Thanks for the info.....     and ENJOY TRAINS

https://www.youtube.com/channe...qYOjCNGWmhgRHia0rKcw

Joe

  GR John & other posters:

What are some good ways of creating number boards ?  

I understand that few printers have white ink as an option.  

Do you print onto plastic transparency with the clear numbers highlighted with black ink ? Would you then need a layer of white plastic behind this so that the numbers appear white ?

Please share your number board experiences.

Thanks in advance !!!

I do it perhaps a simplistic way, but it gets pretty good results.

I print the boards on plain white paper in my later printer.  I use Microsoft word to print white on black sized to the job.  I have a choice of hundreds of fonts, so I can usually match pretty closely to the desired font.  I cut that out and using canopy glue (Tester's Clear Parts Cement), I glue it to the plastic number board.  I put in inside if I can, otherwise I use a couple coats of clearcoat to seal it.

Tichy Train Group offers black decals with white numbers. They are translucent. If permanent you made need to touch the edges with a marker or a fine brush. I added a few layers of gloss over the decal. They offer a few sizes according to scale with enough randomly placed numbers you may find just what you need. Pretty sure I used the S ones for this. I’m guessing this engine in the posting you applied the number of the train # itself not the engine. Not a bad way to build it if you have a particular train in mind to model and want to be prototypical. Lionel should have offered separately applied decals with corresponding correct numbers for the name trains.

@Hot Water posted:

Yes, it DOES matter to me!  I am still available to answer technical questions from any and all model train manufactures, and I DID provide information and guidance to the Lionel folks pertaining to to the specific questions they asked. Apparently the SP GS-1 model was not one of them.  

Wouldn't the policy apply to all engines, GS-1 or GS-4? Why would the engine type matter?

@BobbyD posted:

Wouldn't the policy apply to all engines, GS-1 or GS-4?

Yes, that SP policy/practice applied to ALL engines, steam and diesel.

Why would the engine type matter?

It didn't, however the folks at Lionel may have viewed a prototype photo of a GS-1 spotted within an engine terminal, and thus saw no numbers in the Train Number Indicators.

In other words, as I suggested, Lionel simply screwed up.

@Hot Water posted: 

"Why would the engine type matter?"

"It didn't, however the folks at Lionel may have viewed a prototype photo of a GS-1 spotted within an engine terminal, and thus saw no numbers in the Train Number Indicators."

@BobbyD posted:

Hmm. Sometimes it seems they use a one out of a thousand image for their paint schemes too.

My F3 has a missing number board, just a hole in the side of the nose. I'll have to figure out how to machine down a piece of plastic, but the idea of printing the numbers on white paper is something I had not considered (duh) - brilliant!. I assume GRJ is talking about printing white letters surrounded by a black fill. Something like this :

Yellow border is so I could see the text box. I can add kerning to get the proper spacing and adjust the font as necessary. This is going to be easier than I thought - maybe. Depends on how much light gets through the paper. Might have to try printing on vellum if there is an issue.

There's a simple fix.

Buy a set of Microscale O Scale S.P. steam engine lettering and numbering decals.  Either apply an X and the engine number, or apply your favorite S.P, Train Number, and then set that engine on the track and run it.

It would have been nice if Lionel had included decals for the number boards, but, if they did not, then they are available from Microscale, or (probably) Walthers or (probably) P&D Hobby Shop.  It's a small nuisance, I'll agree, but the best thing to do is apply your own numbers and move on.  No sense to be unhappy when model railroading is a hobby for fun.

However, it ought to be a teaching experience for Lionel.

AND NOW FOR MY OPINION:  Most 3-rail Espee steam engines are sold to modelers who don't even know of S.P.'s former practice of displaying either the train number for Regular Trains, or the engine number preceded by the letter X for extra trains, and just want a good looking locomotive, with smoke, sound, and maybe a few other features, that will run reliably, and so the X and engine number would work fine for them.  Thus there was no need for Lionel to leave the number boards unlettered.

@ScoutingDad posted:

My F3 has a missing number board, just a hole in the side of the nose. I'll have to figure out how to machine down a piece of plastic, but the idea of printing the numbers on white paper is something I had not considered (duh) - brilliant!. I assume GRJ is talking about printing white letters surrounded by a black fill. Something like this :

Yellow border is so I could see the text box. I can add kerning to get the proper spacing and adjust the font as necessary. This is going to be easier than I thought - maybe. Depends on how much light gets through the paper. Might have to try printing on vellum if there is an issue.

No appreciable light leaks through the black, at least for me.  As for the plastic, I just use a piece of scrap clear plastic thick enough and cut/sand it on the sides to shape.  I believe the F3 number board is just flat plastic, so it's easy to make.  For those, I'd put the numbers on the inside, that way there's no "wear" on them from handling.