O-gauge inventory and vendors at train shows

@Albert Costa posted:

… the amount of o-gauge product and number of vendors selling o-gauge products is diminishing year over year over the last few years.

This is certainly true at most train shows, but it think it’s more likely the result of an increase in sale opportunities through the internet. Many retailers don’t see a point in going out to live shows any longer because it doesn’t pay.

I base this on conversations I’ve had with retailers that used to have large presences at major shows.

Here in the northwest,  I would say there has been some retrenchment especially with the large shows with definitely less o-gauge to sell. Small shows, there's a ton of it proportionally with a lot of it available cheaply. There definitely are the vendors with high/book prices that just end up taking most things home. I and others have found when trying to sell,  that per car prices are in the 5 to 10 dollar range for modern and not much higher for common postwar. If I price at 5 dollars , I can move merchandise,  but at 10 I'll be taking it all home. I would say there is a glut out there across all scales.

A lot of the collections may be gathered up at auction houses and other consolidators in large lots such as Trainz, so generally you're not seeing these at shows but are being sold online.

I went to the Greenburg show in Richmond yesterday, and I have the same observations.  The number of vendors was down from the show this time last year.  I was lucky enough to find what I was looking for (within the first 10 minutes, no less).  There were three vendors I had hoped to visit, who where not there this year.  It is sad to see the trend of shrinking shows, but I understand the economics behind it. 

Agree with the above.  The cost in time and dollars (load, travel, set-up, attend, take down, load, travel, unload) and fees to be a Vendor at a show, isn't worth it if you are going to end up selling 50 items at $5.

@TheRambles posted:

This is certainly true at most train shows, but it think it’s more likely the result of an increase in sale opportunities through the internet. Many retailers don’t see a point in going out to live shows any longer because it doesn’t pay.

I base this on conversations I’ve had with retailers that used to have large presences at major shows.

I would agree with this. Just my very limited experience, but a number of years ago I used to sell a little at local train shows. It's expensive, very time-consuming, a lot of work, and most of the show visitors are there to gawk, and not to buy. Went 100% online. And online is the competition for train shows now. A different reality from the old days. I suspect the large vendors have done/are doing the same thing, for the same reasons.

I try to get to York at least once every couple of years.  I went this past October and it's still big, but smaller than it was before the pandemic, and definitely smaller than it was in its heyday of the 1990s.  As others have already stated, I browse and buy a lot of trains online, although I miss the "hunt" at shows, and in some cases being able to see and assess the condition of an item in-person before buying.

I asked about the Big E in Springfield, MA and the consensus is that they have some great display layouts, but not as much O-gauge for sale as York or Allentown.  Another recent thread mentioned the Greenberg show in Edison NJ being "packed."  Again, whether this was just lookers or how much product was for sale, I can't say.  I myself grew up in Penna., and I still feel as though the Northeastern U.S. is "ground zero" for 3-rail O.  So one of the mixed blessings of the Internet is you don't have to live there to shop or sell.

i agree with TheRambles.

@Albert Costa posted:

I attend from 10-12 train shows in the southeast each year across 4 states. Having attended the first show this year over this past weekend I have the perception, through observation, that the amount of o-gauge product and number of vendors selling o-gauge products is diminishing year over year over the last few years. I see ever increasing empty floor space at these shows, where vendor tables and product used to be.

I started my collection as a child in the 1950’s and 1960’s where I grew up near Boston. It is well known that the number of baby boomers like myself with o-gauge collections are diminishing year after year, along with the lack of desire of generations to follow to continue these collections.  I would think the used o-gauge market inventory should be rapidly increasing due to the number of collectors decreasing. I do not see a glut of product at these shows nor vendors to sell it. Although I do see product value dropping as you can purchase rolling stock in original boxes in good to excellent condition at bargain prices, as low as $10.00 each.

Is this observation typical across the other parts of the country or is it mostly in the southeast?

Where are all the trains from those old collections going?

What do you consider today to be the largest attended and inventory o-gauge show in the Eastern US, is it the York show?

I see A LOT of product at on line auction house auctions..

Stout, Harris, Cabin Fever, etc.

I guess that you don't look at Stout auctions.

I kind of agree with the consensus given so far. What's sad is that as these shows shrink, what's left? It is always nice to see the displays and different modular layouts but without vendors, they are hard to organize & keep going. Going to shows, seeing what can be done, and then buying a starter set or other items is how many folks get started in this hobby and I for one don't want to see that end. Without good shows, the general public doesn't get much exposure or interaction with the hobby, and that's not good.

Do good show layouts help draw in more vendors & crowds or is it the other way around??? What are everyone's thoughts on that?

@H1000 posted:

I kind of agree with the consensus given so far. What's sad is that as these shows shrink, what's left? It is always nice to see the displays and different modular layouts but without vendors, they are hard to organize & keep going. Going to shows, seeing what can be done, and then buying a starter set or other items is how many folks get started in this hobby and I for one don't want to see that end. Without good shows, the general public doesn't get much exposure or interaction with the hobby, and that's not good.

Do good show layouts help draw in more vendors & crowds or is it the other way around??? What are everyone's thoughts on that?

My club puts on a modest show (100ish vendor tables, one big layout, 3 or 4 small layouts).  My non-scientific impression is that people attend primarily to patronize certain vendors, and the vendors return because of those buyers.  The layouts add to the interest, but we've had good shows with fewer layouts.  Based on observation, it seems like 5% of the attendees account for 80% of vendor sales.  Most of our vendor attrition is due to age and health.

Aside from new production, I buy almost nothing online - if an item is used, I like to be able to examine it before buying.  Not to mention bundled purchases and bargains found under the tables.

@breezinup posted:

I would agree with this. Just my very limited experience, but a number of years ago I used to sell a little at local train shows. It's expensive, very time-consuming, a lot of work, and most of the show visitors are there to gawk, and not to buy. Went 100% online. And online is the competition for train shows now. A different reality from the old days. I suspect the large vendors have done/are doing the same thing, for the same reasons.

I agree about the cost of setting up at a show, especially the time involved - one can probably make more profit by doing a shift behind the counter at a local liquor store - but I'm glad that people still do it.  IMO, one of the purposes for the large vendors was to unload excess inventory of new items - I think that has dried up due to the trend toward limited-production runs, so they no longer have a reason to set up at meets.  The absence of Charles Ro and Nicholas Smith at York illustrate this - they used to bring all sorts of new stuff at substantial mark-downs.

Not that I have much to add, but to reduce it to the very basics, while model RR'ing is not dying, it is shrinking in general (and expanding in a few fields of interest, I believe), and add to this the Internet, etc, shows can't help but shrink - especially in the regions where it is more marginal than in others.

Too bad, because train shows are fun, or at least used to be. I've been a vendor and a customer; they were places to network, deal, talk, joke, run trains, see old train buddies from out of town, work hard (shows don't just pop up) and go home tired with money in your pocket or boxes in your trunk (usually not both!).

The Internet? Nah - it's got none of that. Stuff? Yes. Flavor? No. Too bad. So sad.