O scale trains that sound like trains!

I believe that WBB engines use a specially designed Tsunami decoder for O Scale. But you are right, these sound great! I really wish us 3 railers could pick and choose sound systems like HO. Maybe someday!

Steve,

    No doubt the new True Blast Plus sounds are pretty realistic, if realism in O Gauge Trains is what you like.   Myself I like both the Original & Reproduction Tin Plate O Gauge Trains, and only want so much realism, in my O Gauge train layouts.  I do like however the Legacy & DCS remote control & sounds, they add greatly to the Christmas layout.  My Christmas layouts are meant to be a child like wonderland, with different size Trains, village buildings, people and vehicles.   The sound from the Legacy & P2/P3 engines is just fine for my kind layout.

PCRR/Dave

ES44AC posted:

I believe that WBB engines use a specially designed Tsunami decoder for O Scale. But you are right, these sound great! I really wish us 3 railers could pick and choose sound systems like HO. Maybe someday!

I sure hope so! I feel like half the O gaugers who think our current is so great have never even heard an HO scale train, and for that matter, a real train, in their life.

Steven Michael posted:

Those GP30s I have sound amazing. I know, the prime mover sound is a non-turbo 567, and GP30s actually had turbochargers, but at least it sounds like a 567. Neither Lionel or MTH can say that about their 567s.

The Williams one sounds like a roots blown 567C found in a GP7/9. A GP30 has a turbocharged 567D3 which sounds pretty different than the supercharged 567C. The Legacy versions of both the GP30 and GP35 sound spot on for the 567D. The MTH one sounds pretty good as well.

The Williams model is still pretty decent considering the price though.

Trevor

Steven Michael posted:

First of all, I will say is that all trains made by Lionel and MTH at this point in time do sound good.  But the word "good" has multiple meanings.  Lionel engines sound good because of their volume an exceptional bass, but their horns  sound nothing like real ones (not to mention that they put quilling horns in modern diesels, which actually have solenoids). MTH engines *usually*  sound good because of their accuracy, but it tends to be pretty hit or miss. But if you want accuracy, you need to look somewhere else. In a place that you would not expect to find good sound. Williams by Bachmann.  Their new true blast plus system is unbelievable! Those GP30s I have sound amazing. I know, the prime mover sound is a non-turbo 567, and GP30s actually had turbochargers, but at least it sounds like a 567. Neither Lionel or MTH can say that about their 567s. I have a feeling WBB is using sounds from the HO decoders they use, I believe Tsunami SoundTrax.  Can someone  tell me if this is the case? I am so glad that I have finally found an O scale train that actually sounds like, well, A TRAIN!

Actually Lionel's GP30 sounds are spot on. I've heard Southern 2594, the high hood GP30 at Spencer on several occasions (starting up, idling and going through the notches), and my Lionel model is almost identical to it. Also take a listen to Lionel's new E8s, their roots blown 567 sound file is fantastic. This is toytrainsontracks video of his set of E8s.

I have the new Legacy SD70-MAC by Lionel. Sounds spot on to me. I use the quill like the Doppler when the train passes a viewer when running a diesel.

My 2008 GP38-2 had great sound being an early Legacy.

The new Lionel Steamers sound great. Lionel went to great lengths to capture the cab forward sounds.

MTH trains remind me the of the first solid state sound systems when compared to tube systems-no presence.

As for the HO sound, I visit a local club from time to time and I just can't hear the sounds.

Nice to know......I have a MTH GP30 so I had not looked at WBB.....but may now.

The bass makes a LOT of difference.   I have had heard the MTH Premier E8 and the Railking version.  Sound set appeared to be the same but the Premier had more bass and was thus much better.  Neither was as good as the Lionel above though.   Broadway limited just released a system that communicates bass frequencies to a subwoofer.  I haven't heard that yet in person but would bet that it's impressive.   The idea being that if you chuck a small sub under the layout, with bass being omnidirectional, you get a nice deep rumble everywhere.    

Lionel and  I would think MTH, both use real recorded engine sound when possible. As for Williams GP30, I can hear the sound but the volume is too low for me to say it's better. Actually I kinda doubt that it is.

Jim 1939 posted:

Lionel and  I would think MTH, both use real recorded engine sound when possible. As for Williams GP30, I can hear the sound but the volume is too low for me to say it's better. Actually I kinda doubt that it is.

MTH does for sure. Lionel, maybe sometimes, but only for prime movers. Their horns sound AWFUL!

tjl824 posted:

Steven Michael posted:

Those GP30s I have sound amazing. I know, the prime mover sound is a non-turbo 567, and GP30s actually had turbochargers, but at least it sounds like a 567. Neither Lionel or MTH can say that about their 567s.

The Williams one sounds like a roots blown 567C found in a GP7/9. A GP30 has a turbocharged 567D3 which sounds pretty different than the supercharged 567C. The Legacy versions of both the GP30 and GP35 sound spot on for the 567D. The MTH one sounds pretty good as well.

The Williams model is still pretty decent considering the price though.

Trevor

 

 Yeah, for a turbocharged 567, the Lionel one probably is better. Still not exactly "Spot on", the transitions between notches should only be about half the speed that they are. 

Jim 1939 posted:

Lionel and  I would think MTH, both use real recorded engine sound when possible. As for Williams GP30, I can hear the sound but the volume is too low for me to say it's better. Actually I kinda doubt that it is.

I'm not talking about volume, I am referring to accuracy. This beats Lionel's non-turbocharged 567 by a million. (though I suppose you could put better speakers in it… Then it would sound amazing!)

Sounds like you'd be better off doing HO instead of O. If 100% accuracy is what you want, then you're in the wrong scale

Trevor

It's a matter of physics.  Loudspeakers that fit in toy trains are small of necessity and the amplifiers are low powered.  The best you can hope for is to get get sound that somewhat resembles the sound of a full scale train.  It's simply impossible to reproduce the ground shaking low frequencies of the real thing with an in train O scale sound system.

Someday some enlightened manufacturer will devise a sound system that delivers the higher frequencies through a speaker (or speakers) in the train, but sends the lows to a honkin' subwoofer and high powered amplifier somewhere in the train room.  Since low frequencies are relatively non-directional the illusion that the train is where the sound is coming from would be preserved.

Pete

Texas Pete posted:

It's a matter of physics.  Loudspeakers that fit in toy trains are small of necessity and the amplifiers are low powered.  The best you can hope for is to get get sound that somewhat resembles the sound of a full scale train.  It's simply impossible to reproduce the ground shaking low frequencies of the real thing with an in train O scale sound system.

Someday some enlightened manufacturer will devise a sound system that delivers the higher frequencies through a speaker (or speakers) in the train, but sends the lows to a honkin' subwoofer and high powered amplifier somewhere in the train room.  Since low frequencies are relatively non-directional the illusion that the train is where the sound is coming from would be preserved.

Pete

See above - it's already been done in HO by Broadway Limited.  Bachmann's Blue Train implementation is pretty slick as well and opens up the door to truly modern train control - it has outputs that can be used to connect to a DCC/Sound board and once (if) they implement it all you need is track and a power source - the rest is run from any bluetooth capable device with a free app.    

Cool things are coming - just wondering how long they will take to get to O gauge....

Just went to the Broadway Limited site.  Wow!  "Rolling Thunder" indeed!  Had to happen.  And you can get just the receiver.  I could move my 800 watt sound reinforcement subwoofer to the garage and let it rip.  This is fabulous news.  Thanks for clueing me in.

Pete

Steven Michael posted:

tjl824 posted:

Steven Michael posted:

Those GP30s I have sound amazing. I know, the prime mover sound is a non-turbo 567, and GP30s actually had turbochargers, but at least it sounds like a 567. Neither Lionel or MTH can say that about their 567s.

The Williams one sounds like a roots blown 567C found in a GP7/9. A GP30 has a turbocharged 567D3 which sounds pretty different than the supercharged 567C. The Legacy versions of both the GP30 and GP35 sound spot on for the 567D. The MTH one sounds pretty good as well.

The Williams model is still pretty decent considering the price though.

Trevor

 

 Yeah, for a turbocharged 567, the Lionel one probably is better. Still not exactly "Spot on", the transitions between notches should only be about half the speed that they are. 

Have you had much experience with REAL EMD GP20s, GP30s, and GP35s?

Hot Water posted:

Steven Michael posted:

tjl824 posted:

Steven Michael posted:

Those GP30s I have sound amazing. I know, the prime mover sound is a non-turbo 567, and GP30s actually had turbochargers, but at least it sounds like a 567. Neither Lionel or MTH can say that about their 567s.

The Williams one sounds like a roots blown 567C found in a GP7/9. A GP30 has a turbocharged 567D3 which sounds pretty different than the supercharged 567C. The Legacy versions of both the GP30 and GP35 sound spot on for the 567D. The MTH one sounds pretty good as well.

The Williams model is still pretty decent considering the price though.

Trevor

 

 Yeah, for a turbocharged 567, the Lionel one probably is better. Still not exactly "Spot on", the transitions between notches should only be about half the speed that they are. 

Have you had much experience with REAL EMD GP20s, GP30s, and GP35s?

No...

tjl824 posted:

Sounds like you'd be better off doing HO instead of O. If 100% accuracy is what you want, then you're in the wrong scale

Trevor

You speak the truth! You know how many people have told me they have switched to HO because of this? If Lionel would get their act together this wouldn't happen...

I must say, that video of the Lionel E8s that Toytrainsontracks made was of professional grade. Excellent camera work and they have awesome sounds that just came thru in that video. 

In the 5 engine MU (fast forward to 55 seconds)the 4th engine hosts an inexpensive FM transmitter connected to the speaker leads which sends diesel engine sounds to a FM radio out the headphone jack to this device  http://www.amazon.com/Mooer-MO...Single/dp/B009ZW3WFE  to my powered sub woofer.Complete game changer.

Have you guys ever heard of LokSound? They make great sound decodes. Would love to put one in one of my engines!

Very interesting thread - Thanks Steven Michael for starting it.

The subwoofer under the layout has been something that intrigued me many years ago but not being particularly 'technological', I never tried to pursue it. The news about Broadway Ltd's system is quite interesting.

On another note, re 100% scale, how can Lionel build a high-end diesel like the new E9s and have the truck sides appear so strange? I had read something about this earlier this year when they were released and it is very apparent in Rich's nice video posted above. You can really see how they stick out when the engines are transversing the switches.

I gather these are new tooling so why the screw up?  MTH, Atlas, and 3rd Rail have been producing E & F series diesels with correct proportions as has Lionel itself before.  Doesn't make sense...

Steven Michael posted:

tjl824 posted:

Sounds like you'd be better off doing HO instead of O. If 100% accuracy is what you want, then you're in the wrong scale

Trevor

You speak the truth! You know how many people have told me they have switched to HO because of this? If Lionel would get their act together this wouldn't happen...

Lionel doesn't have an act to get together. They're marketing to a totally different demographic than say Atlas or Kato is. If I had to guess, you must be one who railfans often. Sounds like what you want to do is recreate what you see in real life. Lionel isn't necessarily going for that. They're going for a fancy train packed with fancy features that break the rules of real life sometimes. The thing you mentioned about the quilling horns and modern diesels, while true, would make no sense for Lionel to do. To disable one of their selling points for one locomotive just to maintain accuracy would be foolish. They also change the horns up to keep it interesting. If they recorded a real horn horn for every different roadname of a locomotive, they'd have to have to make a ton of sound sets, which isn't their style.

Take a look at how much an Atlas diesel engine costs.  You spend around an average of $500 for the locomotive, and you get outdated electronics that Lionel moved past over 10 years ago. However, you're also getting an engine that went through a very complicated production process to make sure that it had details correct to the prototype. They'll offer a gull-wing cab ATSF dash 8, CSX dash 8 with low headlight and numberboards, Conrail dash 8 with high headlight and low numberboards, and so forth. If you think about how that has to go on the assembly line, with only a certain part getting a certain paint, it gets to be quite a lot. Therefore it costs more.

Compare this to Lionel. The electronics are way more advanced and as a result are more expensive than the boards Atlas puts in their engines. Now, if Lionel went for full accuracy in every single engine they made, it'd make them cost significantly more. Most of their market doesn't care for 100% accuracy, so they make one tooling that best suits all the prototypes. Otherwise they'd be making a lot of people pay more for something that doesn't necessarily bother them. This is why Lionel engines aren't spot on perfect to the real deal.

One thing you can do is watch how this new style they have goes, with the SD40 and SD38 with railroad specific details. Also notice how the price increased over $100 on these engines. They're what you seem to be looking for, but they'll cost you quite a bit. I'm anticipating them to start putting out a bunch of railroad specific detailed new engines that haven't seen the O scale market, at least in years. Also, if you're hoping to not spend a lot, HO has plenty to offer you and fits your wants. It's a much wider market than O, which allows for more specialization. In the meantime, bashing Lionel for something they have fully figured out is quite foolish.

Trevor

You're right Steven - when it comes to quality sound you can't go wrong with SoundTraxx!

We all have different inner ears. Having different sound frequencies we are more sensitive too makes a huge difference in what we think of train sound effects. Unfortunately for me, MTH can with out the base sound a bit high pitched for my taste, then I have better high pitched hearing than most. Lionel can end up with to many sounds channels at times making things a bit muddled to me. Atlas from what I have heard is about right to my ears. Trying to fit a perfect copy of a real engine sound in a small case with limited memory and speaker potential is hard. I would say they have done a good job of improving train sounds over the decades. In the end it all boils down to personal taste.

BucksCo posted:

You're right Steven - when it comes to quality sound you can't go wrong with SoundTraxx!

Except for ESU LokSound! ���� But you get the idea. 

tjl824 posted:

Steven Michael posted:

tjl824 posted:

Sounds like you'd be better off doing HO instead of O. If 100% accuracy is what you want, then you're in the wrong scale

Trevor

You speak the truth! You know how many people have told me they have switched to HO because of this? If Lionel would get their act together this wouldn't happen...

Lionel doesn't have an act to get together. They're marketing to a totally different demographic than say Atlas or Kato is. If I had to guess, you must be one who railfans often. Sounds like what you want to do is recreate what you see in real life. Lionel isn't necessarily going for that. They're going for a fancy train packed with fancy features that break the rules of real life sometimes. The thing you mentioned about the quilling horns and modern diesels, while true, would make no sense for Lionel to do. To disable one of their selling points for one locomotive just to maintain accuracy would be foolish. They also change the horns up to keep it interesting. If they recorded a real horn horn for every different roadname of a locomotive, they'd have to have to make a ton of sound sets, which isn't their style.

Take a look at how much an Atlas diesel engine costs.  You spend around an average of $500 for the locomotive, and you get outdated electronics that Lionel moved past over 10 years ago. However, you're also getting an engine that went through a very complicated production process to make sure that it had details correct to the prototype. They'll offer a gull-wing cab ATSF dash 8, CSX dash 8 with low headlight and numberboards, Conrail dash 8 with high headlight and low numberboards, and so forth. If you think about how that has to go on the assembly line, with only a certain part getting a certain paint, it gets to be quite a lot. Therefore it costs more.

Compare this to Lionel. The electronics are way more advanced and as a result are more expensive than the boards Atlas puts in their engines. Now, if Lionel went for full accuracy in every single engine they made, it'd make them cost significantly more. Most of their market doesn't care for 100% accuracy, so they make one tooling that best suits all the prototypes. Otherwise they'd be making a lot of people pay more for something that doesn't necessarily bother them. This is why Lionel engines aren't spot on perfect to the real deal.

One thing you can do is watch how this new style they have goes, with the SD40 and SD38 with railroad specific details. Also notice how the price increased over $100 on these engines. They're what you seem to be looking for, but they'll cost you quite a bit. I'm anticipating them to start putting out a bunch of railroad specific detailed new engines that haven't seen the O scale market, at least in years. Also, if you're hoping to not spend a lot, HO has plenty to offer you and fits your wants. It's a much wider market than O, which allows for more specialization. In the meantime, bashing Lionel for something they have fully figured out is quite foolish.

Trevor

It's not too hard to change a sound file. If they did it on the GP35s, they can do it on anything.

Once I'm in/done with college, I plan on changing to N scale, I have already begun building a collection. I guess I'm just one more person Lionel won't be getting money from.

Allin posted:

We all have different inner ears. Having different sound frequencies we are more sensitive too makes a huge difference in what we think of train sound effects. Unfortunately for me, MTH can with out the base sound a bit high pitched for my taste, then I have better high pitched hearing than most. Lionel can end up with to many sounds channels at times making things a bit muddled to me. Atlas from what I have heard is about right to my ears. Trying to fit a perfect copy of a real engine sound in a small case with limited memory and speaker potential is hard. I would say they have done a good job of improving train sounds over the decades. In the end it all boils down to personal taste.

The prime mover sounds are pretty good , especially for something made 10 years ago. Just wish they would have more than 4 RPM levels. And the horns are never right (as usual), unless of course they are 1-bell horns or are just correct by dumb luck.

I am not as up to date on DCC as others around here, but I believe Loksound is going to offer decoders for O gauge, if they don't already have them available? Pretty sure I read something about this a while back. Even though I have DCS and Legacy, I find DCC interesting and want to give it a try someday. Looks like there could be many hours of fiddling with all the DCC settings, CV's and things, don't know what I am doing with it all, but I like to fiddle.

I plan to stick with 3 rail, but I imagine I will probably have to set up a separate loop of track as I don't think you can run DCC along with DCS and Legacy? Switching back and forth might be a pain, then again maybe not? Either way, I think it will be a lot of fun to experiment with. Most of my engines are MTH and PS3 (only have one PS2 and a couple Lionel engines). Technically I think I should be able to run all those under DCC as well.

To my ears O gauge has the best quality of sound. I don't know anything about the real engines so accuracy is not a concern  for me as I wouldn't know if it was accurate or not? IMO, the HO (and smaller) stuff just does not have the speaker size to produce good sound, at least not any that I have heard so far. Sending the engine sounds to a stereo system or sub-woofer would definitely improve the sounds, no matter what size the engine. This is also something I find interesting. May have to check out Willygee's setup a little more closely (the link he provided was to a guitar effects device which I know nothing about?). Running multiple trains all tied to the same system would probably be an issue? Even so, I think something like this would definitely be worth while to have.  May have to dig out the old Carver amp... 

As for the O gauge sounds, I think Lionel has the best quality of sound, but MTH is quickly catching up. I have some newer MTH engines that sound just as good as Lionel's, some of the older ones are not quite as good. It is my understanding that both Lionel and MTH use actual recordings from the engines they are reproducing. I could be wrong, but I thought they had stated that in some of their promotions for new products? However, maybe they do not have a separate recording for every type of engine they make or the different horns used on various engines?

I have Ho by MTH and the sounds in steam engines are the best out there IMO. I also run dcs with my MTH Ho engines. 

Can the sound be better, of course, especially base but for now it sounds great to my ears.

Steve,

if your going into N scale then you are really going to be disappointed with the quality of the sound. I don't think the onboard sound in N scale will improve very much. It seems a off layout system would be much better, but I have been wrong before. 

rtr12 posted:

I am not as up to date on DCC as others around here, but I believe Loksound is going to offer decoders for O gauge, if they don't already have them available? Pretty sure I read something about this a while back. Even though I have DCS and Legacy, I find DCC interesting and want to give it a try someday. Looks like there could be many hours of fiddling with all the DCC settings, CV's and things, don't know what I am doing with it all, but I like to fiddle.

I plan to stick with 3 rail, but I imagine I will probably have to set up a separate loop of track as I don't think you can run DCC along with DCS and Legacy? Switching back and forth might be a pain, then again maybe not? Either way, I think it will be a lot of fun to experiment with. Most of my engines are MTH and PS3 (only have one PS2 and a couple Lionel engines). Technically I think I should be able to run all those under DCC as well.

To my ears O gauge has the best quality of sound. I don't know anything about the real engines so accuracy is not a concern  for me as I wouldn't know if it was accurate or not? IMO, the HO (and smaller) stuff just does not have the speaker size to produce good sound, at least not any that I have heard so far. Sending the engine sounds to a stereo system or sub-woofer would definitely improve the sounds, no matter what size the engine. This is also something I find interesting. May have to check out Willygee's setup a little more closely (the link he provided was to a guitar effects device which I know nothing about?). Running multiple trains all tied to the same system would probably be an issue? Even so, I think something like this would definitely be worth while to have.  May have to dig out the old Carver amp... 

As for the O gauge sounds, I think Lionel has the best quality of sound, but MTH is quickly catching up. I have some newer MTH engines that sound just as good as Lionel's, some of the older ones are not quite as good. It is my understanding that both Lionel and MTH use actual recordings from the engines they are reproducing. I could be wrong, but I thought they had stated that in some of their promotions for new products? However, maybe they do not have a separate recording for every type of engine they make or the different horns used on various engines?

I knew that PS3 engines can be run with DCC, but did you say PS2 and Lionel engines can also? That would be great, since D)igital C)rap S)hoot hardly works right on my layout. I'll see if I can talk my dad into getting digitrax. For now, would the Bachmann EZCommand transformer work for running MTH stuff? I have one for the few HO/N engines I have...

Lionel does use real recordings of prime movers, but not horns. MTH does both.

david1 posted:

I have Ho by MTH and the sounds in steam engines are the best out there IMO. I also run dcs with my MTH Ho engines. 

Can the sound be better, of course, especially base but for now it sounds great to my ears.

Steve,

if your going into N scale then you are really going to be disappointed with the quality of the sound. I don't think the onboard sound in N scale will improve very much. It seems a off layout system would be much better, but I have been wrong before. 

Any decoder sounds more accurate than a Lionel engine IMO, bass/volume isn't important to me.

First off, I am not a DCC expert by any means, but I do find it very interesting. I have read a book or two about it and also try to read any articles or threads about it that turn up here and there.

MTH PS2 engines are not DCC compatible (as far as I know). I meant only that I had one PS2 engine, so almost all of my MTH engines (being PS3) have DCC capability. I do not know for sure about Lionel O gauge, but I do not think they have any DCC capabilities built in. As with my PS2 engines, I only have 2 Lionel engines so that's 2 more I could not run on a DCC layout. Of course, these could all be converted to DCC by removing the PS2 or Legacy electronics and installing DCC decoders, which are now becoming available for O gauge.

Someone recently posted that the newest Lionel American Flyer S-gauge engines do have DCC capabilities. I am not an S-gauger, but read it in a thread here in the S gauge forum. The posts were made by very knowledgeable forum members. No idea if they will carry this over to O gauge or not?

As far as I know, the Bachmann DCC is a stripped down version. However, I don't know of any reason it should not work with your DCC capable engines? I know a lot of folks have Digitrax, but my personal preference is for the NCE DCC systems. That will be what I will get when I get around to fiddling with DCC. Very capable system and looks like it's very well thought out too. I would certainly give the NCE systems a look before purchasing anything else. If you like O gauge and DCC, you could also stay with it with the new decoders they are coming out with, instead of switching scales.

I have also had a very different experience with DCS than you have. I got Barry's book several years ago (just upgraded to his new one) and tried to follow his guidelines for wiring as best as I could. I have a Rev L TIU, got it as they had just been released. I later (a little over a year ago) added Legacy. Both systems work very well on my layout and there is no interference between the two systems. They play well together. I am very happy with the operation of both systems and have not had any problems with train operation. Only problems I have had was I broke my DCS remote's thumbwheel (was able to fix it myself with anew one from MTH) and my Legacy base would not take an upgrade. It still worked the trains, just would not update. It had to go back to Lionel for warranty repair. They fixed it and now it's fine.

rtr12 posted:

First off, I am not a DCC expert by any means, but I do find it very interesting. I have read a book or two about it and also try to read any articles or threads about it that turn up here and there.

MTH PS2 engines are not DCC compatible (as far as I know). I meant only that I had one PS2 engine, so almost all of my MTH engines (being PS3) have DCC capability. I do not know for sure about Lionel O gauge, but I do not think they have any DCC capabilities built in. As with my PS2 engines, I only have 2 Lionel engines so that's 2 more I could not run on a DCC layout. Of course, these could all be converted to DCC by removing the PS2 or Legacy electronics and installing DCC decoders, which are now becoming available for O gauge.

Someone recently posted that the newest Lionel American Flyer S-gauge engines do have DCC capabilities. I am not an S-gauger, but read it in a thread here in the S gauge forum. The posts were made by very knowledgeable forum members. No idea if they will carry this over to O gauge or not?

As far as I know, the Bachmann DCC is a stripped down version. However, I don't know of any reason it should not work with your DCC capable engines? I know a lot of folks have Digitrax, but my personal preference is for the NCE DCC systems. That will be what I will get when I get around to fiddling with DCC. Very capable system and looks like it's very well thought out too. I would certainly give the NCE systems a look before purchasing anything else. If you like O gauge and DCC, you could also stay with it with the new decoders they are coming out with, instead of switching scales.

I have also had a very different experience with DCS than you have. I got Barry's book several years ago (just upgraded to his new one) and tried to follow his guidelines for wiring as best as I could. I have a Rev L TIU, got it as they had just been released. I later (a little over a year ago) added Legacy. Both systems work very well on my layout and there is no interference between the two systems. They play well together. I am very happy with the operation of both systems and have not had any problems with train operation. Only problems I have had was I broke my DCS remote's thumbwheel (was able to fix it myself with anew one from MTH) and my Legacy base would not take an upgrade. It still worked the trains, just would not update. It had to go back to Lionel for warranty repair. They fixed it and now it's fine.

I'm almost sure Lionel engines wouldn't be compatible since they have an analog control system (I could probably go on a rant about that too, lol). The problem with DCS on my layout is the fact that we have blocks. It causes signals to bounce like crazy, and it also requires 6 TIUs (really should be seven because of sidings) to provide DCS signal to my entire layout. As far as I know, DCS works great on smaller layouts, in fact I would like to try it out on one some time. I'll have to mess around with using EZCommand on an isolated section of track.

Sound is in the ear of the beholder. If I'm waiting at a rr crossing, about 4 or 5 cars after the locomotive(s) go by, all I hear is the sound of wheels on rail. A sound equipped model locomotive on the other hand, no matter what the scale, or how big the layout, is all I hear, even if the loco. is on the far side of layout. For me, it ruins the imagination of the train travelling distances.

If we really want to get accurate, we need a loco. sound system that is loudest as it goes by the viewer, then diminishes at it passes. I doubt that's possible, and is the reason I leave the volume on my sound equipped loco.s at a very low setting, or off.   

brr posted:

Sound is in the ear of the beholder. If I'm waiting at a rr crossing, about 4 or 5 cars after the locomotive(s) go by, all I hear is the sound of wheels on rail. A sound equipped model locomotive on the other hand, no matter what the scale, or how big the layout, is all I hear, even if the loco. is on the far side of layout. For me, it ruins the imagination of the train travelling distances.

If we really want to get accurate, we need a loco. sound system that is loudest as it goes by the viewer, then diminishes at it passes. I doubt that's possible, and is the reason I leave the volume on my sound equipped loco.s at a very low setting, or off.   

It's possible, you just need some REALLY quiet wheels that don't drown out the engine. This would enable you to turn the engine volume down quite a bit. You would hear the engine as it is coming towards you, since it is not blocked out by the sounds the car axles are generating, but once it is past you would only hear the car axles. Basically, everything should be only 1/48th of what it is in real life to give the correct effect. Believe me, I've though about this too, and I wish there was an easy way to do it.

That's a neat video of yours and Dads layout, Steven!

From my experience, the wheels need to be really loud to drown out the engine sounds. Most people run their loco. sounds as loud as they can, and are happy. Get a couple loco.'s on the layout, and it's so loud all the time, no matter where the loco. is, that you can't have a conversation with another person. 

Once at a train show I was viewing a beautiful N-scale layout built into a coffee table that the loco.'s were putting out 1:1 sound. Had to walk away, because it spoiled the scale, so to speak. Wish there was some way to make the sound scale, instead of "real life". 

A postwar Lionel 675 makes a sound that is beautiful to my ears. A Williams f3 set is very pleasing to me, listening to the slight "whir" of the can motor, and the cars clickity-clancking over the rail joints. Scale sounds. 

Bear in mind that this is my opinion, and what makes me happy, and not what I think everyone should do. If you like your engine sounds loud, do it. Everyone should enjoy the hobby in their own way.