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Sean: Good luck with your serach. This surely is a beautiful train!

I just saw the real Surfliner pass by on my way home here in Grover Beach, CA moments ago!

And, in case you wanted to see a picture. Here is the Surfliner waiting at the San Luis Obispo Station recently:

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Last edited by stangtrain

I too, like the Pacific Surfliner Chargers and the Amtrak Surfliner cars they pull, having ridden these trains many times.

I only wish that when an O scale manufacturer debuts a new locomotive like this one, that it also manufactures the matching cars to go with it and would make them available for sale at the same time. What good is a new Amtrak Charger locomotive if you can’t purchase the matching cars to go with it? 🤔

By the way stangtrain, I remember when Grover Beach was Grover City and have been familiar with that area since the 1960s. I used to frequent Avila Beach during the summers back then and have ridden Amtrak’s Coast Starlight and the Surfliners up to San Luis Obispo several times. That is a very nice area. 👍

Last edited by Yellowstone Special

I too, like the Pacific Surfliner Chargers and the Amtrak Surfliner cars they pull, having ridden these trains many times.

I only wish that when an O scale manufacturer debuts a new locomotive like this one, that it also manufactures the matching cars to go with it and would make them available for sale at the same time. What good is a new Amtrak Charger locomotive if you can’t purchase the matching cars to go with it? 🤔

There is actually a very straight forward reason behind this.  In today's O scale world, a locomotive project requires about 750 units to turn a profit for the manufacturer for all the paint schemes combined.  This may take more than a single run to achieve anymore as evidenced by how little newly tooled locomotives are offered. 

A passenger car project in aluminum requires at least 1000 cars minimum to turn a profit and is specific to only one or a few paint schemes for that locomotive.  In other words, about 200 sets assuming a basic 5 car set.  There won't be anywhere close to 200 Pacific Surfliner Chargers sold.  If there were, you would see Scott doing the happy dance all across the pages of this forum!

Should the GGD Superliner I's run sometime in the near future that would change the situation as I believe the Superliner I and II extrusions are the same even if the trucks and interior configurations are different.  The benefit of aluminum cars is that minimal tooling is required which does allow for smaller runs and the window / door punches are a simple tool or CNC.  That would allow for a short run of the Pacific Surfliner cars that would be more in line with the anticipated number of locomotives that would sell.

@GG1 4877:

jonathan, what you stated above certainly makes theoretical sense. And I’m sure this has been the case in many past runs.

However, Amtrak’s Surfliner is the most-ridden and popular regional passenger train on the west coast, in the nation’s most populous state . The Siemens Chargers that pull them are relatively new. It seems that selling at least 200 of the locomotives and a 5 passenger car set to go with them would not be that difficult, theoretically speaking, of course. I would certainly buy the locomotive and matching cars and I don’t even live in California (anymore). 😊

it just seems kind of pointless to me, to buy a new road-specific modern passenger train diesel locomotive with no available matching cars to go with it.

Last edited by Yellowstone Special

I see the production numbers for 3rd Rail and GGD.  13 years ago when I started consulting to the company this would have been a much easier lift.  Now we are doing less units total and in more paint schemes.  There are 12 offerings for the Charger.  I suspect about 10 will make it into production.  Most will likely be Amtrak Phase VI and VII units.  The regional units will have a more regional appeal.  Just an educated guess.   

However, as I mentioned, when Superliners go into design, it wouldn't be that hard to produce Surfliner cars at that time.  They are a pretty easy modification and can be added onto the Superliner production. 

There have been discussions about cars to go with Chargers, but at this point it is just discussions.  Lots of other fires to fight first!  I am hoping to see some traction on everything Amtrak sometime next year as we get through the current set of projects. 



However, Amtrak’s Surfliner is the most-ridden and popular regional passenger train on the west coast, in the nation’s most populous state . The Siemens Chargers that pull them are relatively new. It seems that selling at least 200 of the locomotives and a 5 passenger car set to go with them would not be that difficult, theoretically speaking, of course. I would certainly buy the locomotive and matching cars and I don’t even live in California (anymore). 😊

it just seems kind of pointless to me, to buy a new road-specific modern passenger train diesel locomotive with no available matching cars to go with it.

Your logic makes complete sense.  Unfortunately it's also pointless to tool up at great expense and then find out that your marketing analysis, intuition, or gut feel was wrong and you can't cover your costs much less make a small profit.

Design, development, and manufacturing are easy compared to marketing.  Most businesses that fail do so because they didn't ask a simple marketing question "In their mind why is it that a customer must absolutely, positively have one of these?".

A set of cars for a new Charger might appear to be no-brainer to the average train enthusiast, but the question is still a good one, and it's not easy to get a firm quantified answer, especially by intuition or gut feel.

Mike

Last edited by Mellow Hudson Mike

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll keep an eye out for the K-Line's. I have some of the K-Line Bombardier cars, and they're really nice as well. I find it interesting that nobody else has produced Bi-Level commuter cars, the Surfliner isn't the only train that uses them, plenty of regional commuter lines use them too.

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