Passenger cars and freight mixed

In the 70's in Alaska, the ARR would spot the passenger cars at the bar.  They would switch out the barge in Whittier.  Whenever they got done they would back the freight to pick up the coaches.  Sometime in the mid 70's, the ARR started a seperate train for Whittier & had a regular schedule.

You could add head end cars like a baggage, RPO, or RE cars, but to me adding box cars and the like to a passenger train does not cut it. Would look weird to me.

 

Over in Durango, I have rode three photo specials and each one had the freight in front followed by the coaches.  I once rode #315, and we rode in the caboose, the day after the first run after it's restoration, and it had a boxcar, a flatcar, then another boxcar, two coaches, and then a caboose.  On the run back from Silverton, they had the boxcar-flatcar-boxcar the same, but then the put the caboose in front of the two coaches.  Pretty cool train ride.

My understanding has always been that for a mixed consist it was locomotive->freight->caboose->passenger.  That's how my grandfather explained it to me.  It was to help keep the passengers away from the smelly dirty locomotive.  Same reason the baggage, mail, and the express were at right behind the locomotive.  So that's how I run my mixed.

The Virginia Creeper was a daily mixed consist that served Abgingdon, Va. It was headed up with whatever local freight was on the schedule, followed by a baggage or combine and a heavyweight passenger car bringing up the rear. Heat came from a good old pot belly stove. It was powered by the Class M 4-8-0.

 

I'll be running my own version of this tomorrow headed by my new MTH 2-8-0 (which will just have to do until my 3rd Rail 4-8-0 arrives).

 

For the N&W, a mixed consist is best represented by several freight cars followed by just a couple of passenger cars. Freight was the money maker, the passenger cars were community service.

 

Gilly

I found this, Alaska RR 1969.

 

Front Of Train

 

Rear Of Train

Gerry, Those are 2 intresting pictures. Considering it is in Alaska makes it understandable to have a train with this make up. I am sure the Alaska RR PROBABLY DOES WHAT EVER IT HAS TO. Money is money to them wearher it is freight or passengers.

I have the same vision line hudson and the pullman cars.  

 

I run that on my dual main line usually as one of 4 trains that run on it.  I think it is "plenty long" and with the grades I have on my layout, I think it looks fantastic.

 

The length of your trains and the cars you run on it are up to you.  

 

When I have visitors to the train room they are more interested in seeing the trains run and have little idea as to what matches and goes with each other. 

 

For me personally I like to be in the "ballpark" meaning if I am running passenger cars, they have to all "match."  They also have to be of the same line (i.e., NYC engine, NYC cars).  Also engine and caboose should match or be something that was part of an acquired road.

 

John   

I would say Passenger first, freight second. Engineer would have better control of the train in a station to lineup to the platform.  They would need a spotter if the were in the rear.

 

For a Hudson and 6 passenger cars, there would not likely be any freight cars in the consist, exceptions may have happened, especially during world war 2.

 

 On the Colorado narrow gauge lines mixed trains were common, on the NYC probably only on a branch line run, where you would not expect to see a Hudson or 6 passenger cars in a mixed train.

 

 The Union Pacific did run mixed trains, on branch lines into the 1950's, but the typical passenger consist was a combine or coach, posibly a second coach on occasion, and the passenger cars were typically at the rear of the train. The passenger cars would typically be left at a nearby station while the freight cars were switched out. In cold weather a passenger car would need to have an oil or coal stove to provide heat, and IIRC would also have batteries and an axle driven generator to provide lighting. The same passenger cars would often stay captive on the branchline dedicated to that run.

 

Doug

I know there are general rules that you can follow to set up your consist prototypically. Many are listed in the above posts.

 

I try to follow the basic concepts of how a real train would be set up. But then I always adjust a bit following my number one rule. My number one rule for pretty much everything on my layout is the same. 

 

Number One Rule ( for me anyway)...it's gotta look right to the eyes and feel right in the soul.

 

Sometimes things on the layout when scaled down exactly just don't click and seem awkward. You have to add the magic somehow till it looks right, no formula to follow here, just your raw gut instincts. 

 

Last night I ran a CP ES44 that was pulling six high cube boxcars, two spine cars, one streamlined coach, and two heavyweight passenger cars...all Canadian Pacific.  This was a test for looks as this will become my CP Holiday Train.  Along with all the lights, what attracts me to the real Holiday Train is the mix of freight and passenger cars.  This would not look correct for many roads though.

Another train I run mixed is a C&O RDC set with a REA boxcar and two C&O trailers on roadrailers.  That idea came from a photo of the real train.  The freight looks neat with the RDCs.

I run a NYC L3 class Mowhawk pulling 6 heavyweight NYC Pullmans.I can't imagine freight mixed in.This consist was very prototypical back in the 30's and 40's.

This is more or less my idea of a mixed train:

 

Rusty

Rusty, your idea of a mixed train is very much like mine.   I think that is the traditional look.  

 

Mixed trains were usually used on low-traffic branches to satisfy the usually very light need for passenger accomodation.   Probably some FRA rule involved to support "public good".    So the accomodation was often the lowest quality the RR had to offer, ie using old cars and of course a slow schedule.   

 

The narrow gauge RRs did a lot of mixed.   and I read that on the EBT, the coal trains often ran with a combine or coach on the rear instead of a caboose.    the crew found that the passenger car rode a lot better and preferred one. 

 

Today, I don't know that many mixed trains still exist.    the recent issue of Railroad and Railfan magazine mentions one in Canada that they chased this past summer.   also in Canada, the Ontario NOrthland (I think that is the road) used to run a long mixed train from a town on the Trans-Canada highway to Moose Factory north on Hudson's Bay.   It was the only way in and out.    I think it still runs.  

I agree with Passenger Train Collector.  A Express & RPO cars look great

with a Passenger Set.  Mixed train freight with Passenger Cars is not for

me.

 

But, please remember if this is what you like in a train make up, go for

it, and have fun.  

 

Many thanks,

 

Billy C 

In addition to the typical baggage, REA, and RPO head end cars, several railroads also ran "express" boxcars and milk cars as well as extra mailbag storage cars with their passenger trains.  For example, the Milwaukee Road had special "nighttime" mail trains one of which ran the Hiawatha route between Chicago and the Twin Cities pulling a consist of RPO cars, mailbag storage cars, express boxcars, plus a few sleeper cars for passengers needing to travel overnight between those cities.

 

Bob   

Cool info folks. I enjoy learning about real world trains.

 

Put the cars, on the track, start up the train. Sit back, relax, watch em. You will have your answer. That's how LOTUS rails decides. 

Traditionally, in North America, freight cars would go in front, to make switching easier.  But with 10 or 12 freight cars, you might want to place them behind the coaches because the slack action would otherwise result in a rather uncomfortable ride, I would think.

Mixed runs are alive and well in Strasburg RR, Pa. They are actually expanding the freight yard.

 

Use the OGR search function (in blue bar above)

and type in  "Steam Freight on the Strasburg Rail Road"

Find some really nice pics of the early morning Strasburg, RR run.

 

Want to mix a freight car, a caboose and a pass/combo car? no problem here.

 

btw--small branch lines often had( revenue making) milk cars with a passenger run.

 

Hope this helps

 

Floyd

The N&W used to run a mixed train on the Hagerstown line, powered by a streamlined K-2 4-8-2.

 

Stuart

 

I don't run any freight with my passenger consists' except for a couple of Railway express cars sometimes.  The only train is mix with freight is my Army train with my Lionel 027 green pullman's towards the end of the train.  I don't know if this correct or not but it works for me.

 

Steve, Lady and Tex

 

I agree with a Hudson and a premier consist. 

 

Gerry

This is the consist I have assembled to represent the N&W Virginia Creeper. Waiting for my 3rd Rail 4-8-0 Class M to arrive. Today it was pulled by a MTH 2-8-0 Consolidation (N&W Class I).

 

The Western Maryland Railway ran a combine baggage/coach( and sometimes a coach too )( directly behind the locomotive its Durbin mixed train from Cumberland Md to Durbin WV  Later this train was cut back to running between Elkins WV and Durbin.

Freight cars followed the passenger cars and a caboose was tagged on the end of the freight cars. 

This train was usually pulled by a K1 Pacific or and H7b or H8 consolidation.  The Durbin mixed was discontinued in 1959.

 

Mostly on other roads' mixed trains, I've seen the passenger cars at the end of the train after the freight cars.  

 

And then there was Amtrak's Three Rivers:

 

---PCJ

Hey Gilly that was great. Nice chuffing sound on that.

Sometimes I think there must be a prototype for anything. Here's what surprised me on the rear of a UP freight on Sherman Hill in Wyoming, back in 1981.

 

 

Yes, I had heard, some years back, that such a short-line train was called a "Georgia-Mix" no matter where it ran, with perishables, like milk and fruit in boxcars up front and passenegr cars - few in number - trailing behind, all to make the trip financially feasible. I don't know this as a fact - just heard it and ran it on the layout for some time.

FrankM.

Rusty has shown the "classic" image of a mixed train out of Beebe and Clegg's "Mixed

Train Daily", however most of these are never shown with that many passenger or

freight cars.  I would definitely think six coaches would rate their own train.  The

Great Western used to run long freights of sugar beet gondolas with a combine

coach (now displayed at the Colorado RR Museum in Golden) on the end.  Some

of these ran with one car, a combine RPO/baggage/coach on the end, and whatever

freight cars needed to be moved.  Sometimes, in switching, the combine wound

up elsewhere in the train, on these branch and short lines.

The Louisville and Nashville, ran  a Jim Crow combine (baggage door in the middle

dividing two passenger compartments) on the end of  its mixed run through my great aunt's farm in Shelby County, Kentucky That was hauled by a diesel road switcher in its last years.

Definitely my favorite type of consist.