Pictures of the new Vision Line Niagara , updated with pictures and videos 10/19/17

I have to ask just how hot was the preordering for the 2-10-10-2 and 0-8-8-0 back in 2009? The fact not many are on the secondary market lends me to believe preorders were underwhelming.

I see more Vision Challengers and 700E Hudsons than them, and seeing how many ordered the Vision Big Boy shows that popular locos with Vision features tend to grab the orders better than an obscure engine not been done before.

Considering it's been 16 years since we had Lionel make the Niagara - an engine that's been waiting to get just the Legacy treatment in general - I think Lionel chose right for its next Vision locomotive, versus say another Berkshire or N&W J.

Looks nice but at speed from 3 feet it will be hard to tell from my $200 Williams brass version.....other than conventional control....

I hear a lot of people talking about how the Vision Line was supposed to be "all newly tooled locos". While I don't debate that, those same people conviently forget to mention the other half of it! The Vision Line was also intended to introduce new features never been done before in o gauge. With this particular offering, I count 3; force coupler feature, saftey valve steam, and simulated water scoop spray. It sure seems like its Vision Line worthy!

Don't forget the Niagara has a very loyal following as evidenced by the many posts that seem to pop up all the time about an engine that is 15 years old with TMCC RS4! Add that to the fact that the Niagara has only been done once by Lionel, a long time ago and you've got an incredible offering. 

I am not particularly interested in the force coupler feature as I have been converting everything to Kadees, but I can see how the lobster claw crowd is gonna love it! It is a great idea and will add another element of enjoyment to running for many. But, I think the real sleeper feature on this one is the saftey valve steam effect! If they get it coming out at approximately the right angle, it's gonna look awesome! 

I know I'll be ordering one, or two... depending on the price. 

Now...

I want to hear everyone who complained about the rehash of the tolling say "I don't and never wanted to own a VL Big Boy and/or VL GG1"! 

Hats off to Lionel! The Vision Line Niagara is more than welcome in my train room! 

...

I'll add that it's funny how no one ever lumps the VL challenger into the rehashed tooling category! It was the first VL rehash and still considered by many to be one of the best VL offerings to date! It was LOADED with features much like the Niagara will be. All the naysayers need to take a hike.

Number 90 posted:

pghtrainguy posted:

I guess Lionel ran out of ideas for new, never done before locomotives in O gauge for their VL.

Maybe.  But we vote with dollars, and we have not been casting enough votes. 

As much as some of us would like to see some different locomotives, the customers who vote with their dollars want NYC Niagaras and Hudsons; SP Daylight 4-8-4's and articulateds; UP 4-8-4's and articulateds; Santa Fe 4-8-4's and 2-10-4's; other large steam locomotives of NP, GN and DM&IR; Nickel Plate 2-8-4's; N&W 4-8-4's and articulateds; PRR GG1's, 4-6-2's and 2-10-4's; Milwaukee Road 261 4-8-4; and passenger cars sold in sets including dome cars (whether the railroad ever had dome cars or not).

Nearly all of us has seen a cataloged engine that we liked and wanted to buy, die on the vine for lack of orders.  I am just grateful that Lionel, out of the clear blue, decided to produce a Santa Fe 2-8-2.  I'm not expecting to see an AT&SF 2-6-2 or a 2-8-4 or a true Santa Fe doodlebug or a 2-8-0 or an Alco-GE HH1000 any time soon, but there will be 4-8-4's galore.  They sell well.

Think about our Canadian brethren in this hobby.  They have it even worse, if they desire uniquely Canadian steam or diesel locomotives.

 

Very well put Number 90. I myself have sand to one of my friends who lives up in Canada, that I would definitely love to see Lionel produce a Royal Hudson. You are on the money with voting too. In the past, I have made a suggestion or two, and really, nothing is stopping any of us from popping suggestions to Lionel directly on their site. We can express whatever or however we want there, but it may be best to simply say it in the best possible way, "I would really like to see_____". The only other way would be to do so at the show in similar fashion. I do plan on chatting it up a bit if possible, just to see if I can be heard.

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

rthomps posted:

Hancock52 posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted

Two theories... one is this management team just doesn't have the innovative ilk to introduce VisionLine products that we saw nearly 10 years ago.  The other theory gives Lionel's management team some benefit of doubt, and points the finger overseas. 

RM: It could be neither. I don't think that the present Lionel team lacks ideas; I do think that there are overseas QC issues but that might not be the root of the problem. Lack of development funding/capital is another possibility. Years ago Lionel's present backers put up tens of millions of $$$ to keep the brand going. They might be frustrated that the return on that money is low. So they are not going to sanction another Acela or VL Centipede venture and instead stick with what they know will sell in reasonable volume. The GG1 and Niagara are old favorites for many and so represent reduced risk-taking.

Certainly not what the VL started out as and I'm glad I got some of what I think was the best of it to date. 

Finally, we get a reasoned approach from Hancock in this thread regarding the announcement of this locomotive.  

...

 

It's a reasoned approach because you agree with it.  And oh, by the way... and for the record before somebody else puts more words into my mouth that I didn't say... my comments were directed to that which constitutes the change in VisionLine status as we've seen it over the past few years following the VL Big Boy.  They were NOT deriding the announcement of a Niagara offering per se.  And if you read one of my posts a couple of days ago, I mentioned a Niagara announcement could spell a bit of trouble for my wallet.    Candidly, I think the Niagara -- executed properly, and fixing the problems inherent with the CCII model decades ago -- will be a VERY popular steam locomotive.  I would have preferred the J3A Hudson  (again from nearly 15 years ago), because THAT's the Hudson Lionel should have produced when they did the VL Hudson several years ago.  But a Niagara would have been my second choice.  So will Lionel make it hurt for buyers to snag one of these VL Niagara's?  YOU BET THEY WILL.  And that goes without saying. 

I believe the real root of the issue behind VisionLine's recent backing off from its earlier heights of excellent locomotive offerings goes back to the complexities inherent with overseas manufacturing today.  Unless an importer is gonna spend SERIOUS time and money overseeing the negotiation and manufacturing process -- as we've seen with Scott Mann in 3rd Rail, then we can expect to see product re-issues with minimal feature upgrades as the new-order of the day.  And to be perfectly candid, I get the impression that even those minor, incremental feature upgrades will give Stateside managers a few extra gray hairs by the end of the project.  And that's not so much a criticism of them, but rather an observation of the increased difficulty they're now encountering with overseas manufacturers.  In other words, if the product managers KNOW they're gonna encounter "X" amount of pain just implementing one new feature upgrade, they might be thinking "Why even bother trying to get a complete, newly-tooled locomotive through the design and production phase these days ala VisionLine of 2010?"

This is not a problem unique to Lionel either.  Just look at MTH's 2018 Volume 1 Catalog released today.  I can't recall the number of locomotive re-issues in a catalog like that before.  Some nice stuff sprinkled in as well.  But generally speaking, you don't need to be a die-hard enthusiast to see a similar pattern emerging in that camp too.  And let's not even go down this road with Atlas-O.

I agree. I would really like to as well see the Scale Hudson(Anniversary set was it) produced, whether Legacy or VL. I think you had said before that it was the more accurate one if I recall(still a little hazy from memory).

wrawroacx posted:

Now my curiosity is, what will the whistle sound like. Now I did my research and lot of people will be surprised. Actually I didn't know for myself until I did research on the Niagara whistle. Well I found this site - http://www.trainboard.com/high...gara-whistles.60403/       Niagara's used 3 chime hancock long bell. A video attached, which isn't mine, shows what this whistle sounds like below. But to make sure, I know someone here on this forum should know, did Niagara's use Hancock long bells?

Years ago I bought a CD titled "Living With Steam - The Sounds of Railroading in Buffalo & Western New York". One of the tracks that I was particularly interested in was of the pacing of train #78 and its Niagara locomotive #6018. The recording paces the train for a good while as it accelerates. Eventually the car pacing the train has to stop for a road crossing. Can you imagine my disappointment when a HORN was used to blow the road crossing!

Enjoy the steam whistle on the new Vision Line Niagara. However, I wonder if the new Niagara will also include the ability to change over to the horn sounds?

PS - For all of you guys that think the NYC Niagara was the cat's meow, the N&W Class J would have left the Niagara in its dust accelerating to that road crossing! 

In this video Jerry Calebrese defined the Vision Line product line.  He never said that the products would always be newly tooled engines.  Don't get me wrong, there are many engines I want that have yet to be built, but that was not the stated purpose of the Vision Line when it came out 10 whatever years ago.  

I think the crap we get on this Forum when Lionel announces a new product certainly lessens the value and enjoyment of this Forum for me.  I'm sure I'm not alone.

Same goes for the negative comments that creep their way into many threads. Read through the recently reinvigorated  thread "I still like MPC Lionel Trains do you?", or any of the threads about high priced sales of collector's items, such as pricey empty boxes.

At least on a thread like this, one can assume that the critical posters are hoping that the folks from Lionel are reading.

My advice, don't let the negative nellies impact your enjoyment of your train activities.

"I have to ask just how hot was the preordering for the 2-10-10-2 and 0-8-8-0 back in 2009? The fact not many are on the secondary market lends me to believe preorders were underwhelming."

Or, perhaps the owners of these like them a great deal and do not want to sell them at any price - realistic price, that is. I have the ATSF 2-10-10-2, and would not consider selling it unless someone offered me an amount that no one is going to offer. I'd say that the same principle applies to the  (new) 700E - they seldom come up, and when they do the prices are just silly. I'd love to have one, and I don't expect it cheap, but, really?

========

Per the Vision Niagara, in this case Lionel certainly picked the right locomotive, if not a new locomotive. The real Niagara was extraordinary, and Lionel's CCII offering was a lemon in many ways (I have one; gears are OK so far, but the electronics were an expensive problem, plus some valve gear issues...), and Lionel really needs to exorcize that demon with a good product. Fingers crossed.

BTW, I bought a few years ago a used MTH PS2 Niagara. It is at Factory Reset, but it still won't run under my Remote Commander, plus, in conventional, the PS2 cruise surges and lurches (haven't checked if the tape is dirty). All MTH-part fixable I'm sure - but I already have decided to put an ERR cruise commander in it. When I get there.

Neither my Lionel nor MTH Niagara PT tenders track as well as my Williams brass version. I

Big Jim posted:

wrawroacx posted:

Now my curiosity is, what will the whistle sound like. Now I did my research and lot of people will be surprised. Actually I didn't know for myself until I did research on the Niagara whistle. Well I found this site - http://www.trainboard.com/high...gara-whistles.60403/       Niagara's used 3 chime hancock long bell. A video attached, which isn't mine, shows what this whistle sounds like below. But to make sure, I know someone here on this forum should know, did Niagara's use Hancock long bells?

Years ago I bought a CD titled "Living With Steam - The Sounds of Railroading in Buffalo & Western New York". One of the tracks that I was particularly interested in was of the pacing of train #78 and its Niagara locomotive #6018. The recording paces the train for a good while as it accelerates. Eventually the car pacing the train has to stop for a road crossing. Can you imagine my disappointment when a HORN was used to blow the road crossing!

Enjoy the steam whistle on the new Vision Line Niagara. However, I wonder if the new Niagara will also include the ability to change over to the horn sounds?

PS - For all of you guys that think the NYC Niagara was the cat's meow, the N&W Class J would have left the Niagara in its dust accelerating to that road crossing! 

Wow, now that's very interesting about the CD. Yea, that would be very dissapointing. But the Niagara abd other locomotives that had air horns used them only at High Speeds because at High Speeds, the whistle was not that loud. So they obviously were running fast to blow the horn unless in the audio you hear sounds slower.

I also have a 2-10-10-2.  I love it and would not sell.  That engine gets a lot of play time!

I also have a VL Big Boy.  I love playing with it and that engine is ALWAYS on the main line with a string of VL reefers, a homemade TMCC/ERR scale hotbox reefer and an ERR controlled MTH caboose with signal  man.  It did not bother me that neither the engine or the cars had been released before their Vision Line incarnations.  Each of them are a ton of fun to play with, and that is why that train never leaves the main line.

To me, and to Jerry C.  that was the point of the Vision Line, giving us a more immersive experience and making the hobby more FUN!  I buy and play with Vision Line products, not  because they have never been produced before, but because they are fun to play with.   But hey, that is just me, we all play with trains for different reasons I suppose.

rthomps posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

Adding the VisionLine name to this only gives them another excuse to a charge a PREMIUM price on model done previously.

The "new" features just mean more repairs for Alex, GRJ, and Marty in the near future. 

Yeah call me a party pooper, but what a disappointment for VISIONLINE! Hopefully the box don't call it an electric diesel locomotive 

OK.  I'll bite.  I will call you a "Party Pooper" (caps intentional).  Or, how about "Negative Nancy"?  Or, maybe "Debbie Downer"?  

I think the crap we get on this Forum when Lionel announces a new product certainly lessens the value and enjoyment of this Forum for me.  I'm sure I'm not alone.

I was at the Museum today.  The VL Niagara is going to be a great loc.  My congratulations in advance to those who buy and enjoy this really sharp piece of model railroading.   

 

I had short stays on forums that only permitted positive comments on certain company products. Short stays because they were worthless. Constructive discussion is very good. For and against. I think we need true innovation and some creative  products to draw NEW people to the hobby. This loco does not break ground on any level. I guess it's good there is a market for locomotives in the $1500-2000 range but they have passed by this retired persons comfort level. I will enjoy my Williams version and have a great time.

Lionel makes some nice stuff.....but they are not infallible. (nor are any of the current manufactures)

AMCDave posted:

rthomps posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

Adding the VisionLine name to this only gives them another excuse to a charge a PREMIUM price on model done previously.

The "new" features just mean more repairs for Alex, GRJ, and Marty in the near future. 

Yeah call me a party pooper, but what a disappointment for VISIONLINE! Hopefully the box don't call it an electric diesel locomotive 

OK.  I'll bite.  I will call you a "Party Pooper" (caps intentional).  Or, how about "Negative Nancy"?  Or, maybe "Debbie Downer"?  

I think the crap we get on this Forum when Lionel announces a new product certainly lessens the value and enjoyment of this Forum for me.  I'm sure I'm not alone.

I was at the Museum today.  The VL Niagara is going to be a great loc.  My congratulations in advance to those who buy and enjoy this really sharp piece of model railroading.   

 

I had short stays on forums that only permitted positive comments on certain company products. Short stays because they were worthless. Constructive discussion is very good. For and against. I think we need true innovation and some creative  products to draw NEW people to the hobby. This loco does not break ground on any level. I guess it's good there is a market for locomotives in the $1500-2000 range but they have passed by this retired persons comfort level. I will enjoy my Williams version and have a great time.

Lionel makes some nice stuff.....but they are not infallible. (nor are any of the current manufactures)

There is a difference between constructive criticism and plain negative/nasty comments about everything.

There is nothing wrong with saying, "I think this feature should have been added," or," The firebox doesn't look right."

I think what draws most people's reactions is when posts come in that basically say, "this sucks," or, "people are suckers for anything with a "insert color" box.

The funny thing is that it's usually the same 3 or 4 people who do most of the practically ad-hominem attacks on ANY product that is released or cataloged.

I am completely okay with reading about why something on a model may not be correct with regards to prototype, or why a feature isn't working right.   That's how we learn.    One loses me when they then veer off into editorializing about the company selling the model.

In the huge picture, I am always entertained at how angry some get over a freaking hobby

Lot of assumptions about what aspects of the CCII Niagara will be identical in this new model.  Remember the currently in vogue criticism about "assumptions."

I have the CCII Niagara, but haven't run it much.  I might be interested in this Niagara, but I think one is probably enough.  Great choice though for those who do not have or want the CCII version, which some have had problems with.

As for those who appear to think they know more about what is possible and what is not possible given the current conditions in the industry and marketplace, and how best to run the premier three rail toy train company, I do hope you will feel free to approach venture capitalists or private equity firms to start your own highly innovative and profitable company.  I look forward to your "better than Lionel by far" strategic plans and products!

It sounds like the Forum, and the Folks at Lionel could use a bit of different perspective:

First: It isn't the 50s anymore. If Lionel produces a well done engine, with new tooling and lots of features, people will buy it. The World is smaller, and the regional relevance of products matters much less than it did in the postwar days. This is why Locomotives like the Western Pacific F3s and the M&StL GP9 didn't sell well in the 1950s, and are now valued collectors items. I live in Minnesota, and I love buying items that are from railroads like Wabash, NYC and Rio Grande, railroads that I would never see from my back porch; it's a different time. If Lionel does a newly tooled model of a Wabash 2-6-0, or a Denver and Salt Lake 2-6-6-0, it will sell because it is a well done model, not because the model is  regionally relevant to the people who buy it. Just because a locomotive is obscure or from a somewhat foreign railroad, doesn't mean the market for that loco shrinks to the size of the railroad's following. Buyers simply love new toolings!

Second: Developing a new tooling is a LONG TERM INVESTMENT, at least if Lionel's current production habits are continued in the future. Just because a tooling may not be all that profitable the first time around, doesn't mean it's a bad idea to develop that tooling. Take the Niagara as a perfect example. People bought the loco during the first production run because it was a well done model, superior to it's competition, such as the Williams brass version produced in the 80s or 90s. Lionel has just proven that there is a market for re-hashed toolings, because of all the excitement drummed up around this Niagara. I truly think it is a great model, with really cool features, new and old. And even though the loco has new features, Lionel will probably profit more from this run than the last, because they don't have the initial cost of the tooling to worry about.

Now, with all that said, I think the Niagara is a great model that will succeed, if it works when it comes out of the box. I think the folks at Lionel know what they're doing with this one, and are headed in the right direction. The pattern set in the last 6 months to a year is a good one to follow, with the Niagara and the Santa Fe Hybrid loco. A new locomotive produced with quality and accuracy in mind, and a rehashing of a popular engine, loaded with new features. I would buy both, if i had the money, and the space to run them. I hope this provides a new perspective on the present Discussion.

EscapeRocks p

 

I agree a 'that's stupid' type comment is not helpful or informative. 

I think it just reflects the general mind set we have in the world today. 

But I also do not understand what at times seems like a blind praise for Lionel. IMHO only.....Menard's is the true innovator and ground breaker in the hobby right now. 

Openly bashing a new product that really is just in the very first intro stages, is in bad taste. I applaud Lionel for several innovations. Again, adding Bluetooth and speakers in the boiler, as well as the new effects is worth applauding. Someone has to move O scale forward or it will get stuck pleasing the old regime and dying off to any new comers. Pointing flaws on previous releases is important, just not to the point of bashing.

 If they charge too much, it will reflect back to them in the sales. Openly bashing right here right now, should stop. Otherwise, who would be willing to try new things with such a negative reception?

 I can't afford many of these releases by the way that I've set my budget. I chose how to spend my money. I could adjust for it and buy less of the smaller items. I don't bash others for having more choices than I do. The future will see many innovations trickle down to the masses. I look forward to this type of product and many more innovative types.

wrawroacx posted:

Now my curiosity is, what will the whistle sound like. Now I did my research and lot of people will be surprised. Actually I didn't know for myself until I did research on the Niagara whistle. Well I found this site - http://www.trainboard.com/high...gara-whistles.60403/       Niagara's used 3 chime hancock long bell. A video attached, which isn't mine, shows what this whistle sounds like below. But to make sure, I know someone here on this forum should know, did Niagara's use Hancock long bells?

The New York Central did NOT use 3-chime "long bell" Hancock (deep 'steamboat' type) whistles on their Niagara, nor any other passenger, steam locomotives. The NYC pretty much stayed with their "standard" Nathan 5 or 6 chime whistles. The video above is nice, but NOT representative of New York Central steam locomotive whistles.

Moving a speaker from tender to boiler is far from ground breaking innovation. 99.999% of the people in the world would not note the difference. I love this hobby, we need Lionel.....a name as famous as 'Ford'. But I feel they are catering to a group of hard core wealthy guys MORE than breaking new ground and bringing in new blood. 'Toy' trains are out there. I saw a really cool kids train set at a big box store last night. Lots of track, tunnel, mountain and buildings. $49 is a price many can pay......how do we make the jump to $2K model trains?? We need some true innovation. 

jHere's  the video of it in action , this is just a mock up prototype, there's actually 5 smoke units all switches are located in the top sand dome. Sorry I'm writing this very quick. Smoke fill for the tender is located in the front tender toolbox 

Smoke 

Interesting. How often does it "pop off", i.e. lift the safety valve/valves? 

AMCDAVE,
There is more to it than simply sticking a speaker in the boiler.  The sound file had to be edited/re-written to create the echo effect for the whistle, not to mention code to direct which sounds do and do not emanate from the forward speaker.  I guess what constitutes "groundbreaking" can be debated.  I am relatively new to the hobby, so the first time I had seen/heard an engine with an additional speaker in the boiler and its accompanying sound effects was the VL Challenger, which I bought and enjoy very much (although my VL Big Boy has relegated it to sitting in the roundhouse a lot more than it used to)! 

I tend to consider a feature that had never been done before to be groundbreaking.  If I were around when the first toy train had a smoking stack, I would have thought that would have been groundbreaking.  I would imagine many at that time did too...but then again I was not born yet.  

Color me impressed. Even if this is just a mock-up (I expected as much), the new Vision features look dazzling. The water scoop effect in particular.

I'm pretty sure the whistle sound will be changed to be a bit more like the original CC2 sound, though.

T4TT posted:

I also have a 2-10-10-2.  I love it and would not sell.  That engine gets a lot of play time!

I also have a VL Big Boy.  I love playing with it and that engine is ALWAYS on the main line with a string of VL reefers, a homemade TMCC/ERR scale hotbox reefer and an ERR controlled MTH caboose with signal  man.  It did not bother me that neither the engine or the cars had been released before their Vision Line incarnations.  Each of them are a ton of fun to play with, and that is why that train never leaves the main line.

To me, and to Jerry C.  that was the point of the Vision Line, giving us a more immersive experience and making the hobby more FUN!  I buy and play with Vision Line products, not  because they have never been produced before, but because they are fun to play with.   But hey, that is just me, we all play with trains for different reasons I suppose.

I also own the VL BigBoy. It's a beautiful running locomotive. But, other then whistle smoke I have no use for any of the other features.  To me a waste of time and money... I grade engines on how well they appear when running.    As a  UP and NYC  fan, to me the Niagara even with those new features is simply a oversized under detailed slug that cannot compare to the look of its cousin, the Hudson.  But that's me, different strokes for different folks..   BTW, IMO, the Black, not Russian Blue Triplex  just re-cataloged by MTH with tender smoke and those 3 sets of big drivers, 24 total is by far the most eye catching engine ever in O gauge...A real sleeper.

joe

Thanks Alex!!!

I stick to my guns........these innovations are still catering to the die hard long time hobbyist.  Let's see something that brings in new people at a level that folks will not have to get a loan for.

I think some are mistaking my opinions as not thinking Lionel put some work into this loco. I work in the hobby field....I have an above average insight into what is involved in product development. 

We in the plastic kit hobby have not done a good job getting new blood into the hobby......we always are hunting for a way....not hit on it yet. I don't feel this loco will do the same for the model train hobby either. 

Thanks

Thanks Alex.  The pop off effect is very cool!  I really wish lionel would go back to having the smoke come out of the actual whistle like on the 2-10-10-2.  It looks so much better than a hole in the boiler.  To date, the whistle itself has never clogged.  I know this is a mock up but I am not impressed with the simulated water effect.  That will be tough to pull off, as I don't know how you could make smoke look like water spray.  I most curious about the "force coupler" that will increase engine labor.  That has a lot of potential play value, especially if they can work in wheel slip like on the VL BB.

I agree on the whistle..it looked great on the AC9

Alex M in the first video it shows 2 areas of smoke coming out the side of tender what exactly is this feature called?

thank you in advance of clarity on this.

and thank you for taking the time to post the videos 

Hey Dave,
FWIW, the Legacy remote control and the Vision Line is precisely what drew me into this hobby.  I started with a loop of O72 on the floor of my basement, a Legacy remote and a VL Pennsy CC2.  At that time I had no idea that you could control trains with a remote or that they were capable of doing so much, as my only experience with trains had been in the 70's when I played with my grandpa's train around his Christmas tree.  I was 8 or 9 and that train was fun to play with for the first 15 minutes but then I got bored with it and went back to my Star Wars toys. 

Wow, 5 smoke units, what could go wrong?

With the 3 blink business, the inside of the cab will be like Studio 54!

StPaul posted:

Alex M in the first video it shows 2 areas of smoke coming out the side of tender what exactly is this feature called?

According to various explanations on the various postings about this Niagara, that "feature" is supposed to represent water spray for when the locomotive was/is scooping water at speed from a track-pan. 

thank you in advance of clarity on this.

and thank you for taking the time to post the videos 

I agree that command control brought people into the hobby. 

What have you done for me this week???

Innovation does not mean it has to be ultra high tech.  My grand daughters grew up on ipads and iphones.....they had to reach me how to use them. What do they ask to do when I visit??? Sit at a table and build things from wood sticks, felt and hot glue. Tech is passe to them. They want hands on do/make things. Transfer this to the public with model trains.....that's innovation!! The steam whistle is important to a small sector of our small hobby. Tech alone does not impress a guy that flies his drone via his phone while riding in a car. 

From the Lionel web page...

VisionLine Niagara: The Ultimate Steam Locomotive

Dave,
I totally agree.  The tech brought me into the hobby, but I have found I get as much if not more satisfaction/fun from building a model for my layout, creating a side of a mountain or custom painting and decaling rolling stock than playing with the trains.  I would not have thought that would be the case when I bought my first engine ten or so years ago.  The tech lured me in, but the building and creating keep me excited.  The reality is, I only "need" so many engines and cars.

The steam release valves and sounds are very neat. Thanks Alex for sharing video!

Lionel has finally updated their cab figures, no more Weebles for all engines hopefully.

Hot Water posted:

Interesting. How often does it "pop off", i.e. lift the safety valve/valves? 

I'm also curious to know why all four safety valves are "popping" at once.  The late 1800's locomotives I work on only have two, so I can't speak for more modern ones with three or four, but shouldn't there still be a primary safety and then secondary ones set above that?  I've never come close to lifting the secondary safety on any of our engines before...  

SantaFe158 posted:

Hot Water posted:

Interesting. How often does it "pop off", i.e. lift the safety valve/valves? 

I'm also curious to know why all four safety valves are "popping" at once.  The late 1800's locomotives I work on only have two, so I can't speak for more modern ones with three or four, but shouldn't there still be a primary safety and then secondary ones set above that?  I've never come close to lifting the secondary safety on any of our engines before...  

Right you are, concerning when and how the different safety valves work, even on the big modern steam locomotives. The "first" safety valve should be set to open at 1 psi above the maximum working boiler pressure. The "second" safety valve should be set to open 2 psi above the first safety, and the "third" safety set to open 2 psi above the second, and on and on depending how many safeties there are.

That said, all three or four safeties should NEVER lift (open) all at once!

Concerning how often they lift (open), is dependent on how good the Fireman is! However, the law states that the primary safety should be lifted (opened) at least once a day as part of the "Daily Inspection" process.

Alex M posted:

jHere's  the video of it in action , this is just a mock up prototype, there's actually 5 smoke units all switches are located in the top sand dome. Sorry I'm writing this very quick. Smoke fill for the tender is located in the front tender toolbox 

Smoke 

The smoke is pretty impressive, that is for sure. I talked with Ryan for about 10-15 minutes about the engine, and he said that of course it is still a pre-production sample. I do think though that it is a pretty good sample at that. The safety value popping happens when the engine sits idle for a bit, not sure if it has to run first then sits for it to work, or just sits idle for a bit(I saw Ryan stop it and that was when it popped). The tender fill hole for the water at speed effect as you can see in Alex's picture here, actually broke a piece off. Ryan did say that they were going to change that piece(or how it is in there) so that has been noted and will change.

I of course couldn't resist to ask about price, of course, who wouldn't want to know. Ryan said that they didn't have all the cost figured out, which is a good answer. He further teased me because I was being funny about that answer and he said, "Well, it will be between a Lionchief  set and a Vision Line Big Boy". Sure that is a funny answer, and sort of already knew it would be somewhere there. So, what did the Big Boy go for, $2600 was it after pre-order price?

I did say to Ryan that people can always offer suggestions, but I wish that there was a better way to do so on their site. Perhaps I can mention that to him or someone else that is at the booth tomorrow, or ask how suggestions are processed. I did enjoy talking with him and Dave, it was quite fun.

Looks like a great loco!  Wish I still had an O72 layout.