I agree.  

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

 

I think it's time to go back to the way things worked just fine for YEARS.

 

Respectfully,

David

Just my opinion but, the "For Sale or Trade" and "Wanted to Buy" forums have NOT "worked well for years", because people kept "bumping up" the item with frivolous posts, i.e. "eMail sent.".

I, too, would respectfully request that the Buy/Sell Forum revert to the previous set of rules.  Here's another example why (and this has happened in the past).

Someone posts a 12-car lot for sale.  Doesn't want to sell them individually.  You'd like some but don't want or need 12 more of these cars.  3 or 4....that would be great.  So you reply "anyone willing to split these with me?" And maybe another guy comes forward and buys the rest.  Everyone's happy.  Or better yet, someone lists an engine and matching dummy.  "No breakups."  You already have the engine, but you'd really like the dummy.  You reply, "anyone willing to buy the engine if I buy the non-powered unit?"  Again, everyone's a winner.

Another consideration: seeing replies enables you to see how fast something sold, thereby providing some indication to the relative market value of the item listed.  Maybe you have an engine of your own similar to the one that's for sale.  It's helpful to be able to look at that similar engine that was For Sale and see whether it sold in 5 minutes or 5 weeks.  That gives you an indication of  how to price yours on this Forum.

Just something to consider.

Respectfully,

DITTO.  I, too, would respectfully request that the Buy/Sell Forum revert to the previous set of rules.  

HW, it was not my intention here to start arguments about whether folks think "email sent" is a reasonable reply or not.  The point is we live in an imperfect world -- regardless of how we look at things.  I was never a fan of not allowing replies, because I know all too well how tempermental email spam systems can be from time to time.  For the most part, they work OK.  But a couple of years ago, a seller here on the OGR forum NEVER received my email message in time because the comcast.net email domain servers had just installed highly restrictive SPAM software whose parameters were set incorrectly.  That problem has since been corrected.  But it's yet another example of how email isn't exactly 100% foolproof.

I'm sorry if some folks here can't handle a simple "email sent" reply... or if they feel slighted that their for-sale listing drifts off Page 1.  But instead, they should be more than happy that we even have a venue here with no seller surcharges.  So let's not look a gift-horse in the mouth!    I'll say it one last time... SERIOUS buyers have found my for-sale listings, whether they're on Page 1 or several dozen pages back.  I'd rather have QUALITY buyers find my listings anywhere, rather than have 1,000 tire-kickers view the listing on Page 1.   At least with the former approach, we KNEW there was a DEFINITIVE way to reach the seller.

David

David, I think the issue you ran into with that email is the result of a new round of security updates that a lot of server administrators are running right now. My IT guy updated my web server two days ago. I have had to update all of my web site clients (about 30 of them) with instructions on how to change their email setup to use encrypted passwords, SSL, etc. I have not seen the error message with a link such as you received, but I suspect that's part of this.

Having said that, the question you have posed is worthy of consideration and I will give your request some serious thought. The For Sale and Wanted to Buy forums were definitely more interactive when replies were permitted. The handful of people who were gaming the system made it tough on us to keep the "conversations" to a minimum. It required an extraordinary amount of time to moderate and delete all the extraneous posts.

If we allow replies on those forums again, I will have to come up with a solution to the moderation and admin time issue. I can't spend 2+ hours each day doing micro-surgery on these two forums to remove posts that should not be there. But I don't want to delete an entire thread ( which takes only seconds) because of the actions of a few posters down in the thread, when the OP did nothing wrong.

It is a tough situation...

I agree as well.

The previous way had it's issues but I feel the benefits outweighed them.

Perhaps the "reset" button has now been pressed and understood making way for a return.

Dave

If we go back to the old way is it possible for members to "flag" obvious violators?

From someone that has sold much on the forum I'll add my experience with the new rules.  In the past I would make a post with multiple items in it.  As each item sold I did not create a new post rather just edited to indicate sold items.  Once or week or so I would make a new post that would indicate either new prices and or if new items have been added. (I can no longer do this)  Occasionally someone would bump it up by saying "email sent".  All this did was keep my post in the first two pages of the for sale forum for about a week, and usually most of my items sold.

With the new rules all I can do is edit an item to indicate it sold.  My last posting of multiple items dropped way down in the page count, without any way for my to bump it up and generate more views and hopefully sell my items.  I know people found those bumps annoying, but as someone who is trying to sell things it's crucial for people to see them.  From my experience most people only look a few pages down and that's it.  Once your post drops out of the top ten then it's out of sight out of mind.

As far as I can see it, the bumps and the ability to respond only are annoying depending on how you get your posting notifications.  I choose to read the fourm on line and only get alerts for positing I am following.  People bumping their for sale posts effect in no way whatsoever, in fact the inability to bump and/or reply has made me miss a few items I would have bought because they had dropped down to far and I didn't see them.

Anyway, that's my two cents!

Maybe a member such as David can moderate the BUY / SELL and WTB forums.  I imagine that could cause some angst with some but it could keep that portion of the administration off of you guys.  Is that even possible?

I do agree there were benefits of having replies as stated above.  Maybe the forum can give back a bit to help with this small portion of management.  I'm not suggest full moderation privileges but maybe just the boards in question.

willygee posted:

If we go back to the old way is it possible for members to "flag" obvious violators?

YES, there is!

1. Click on the "Take Action" item in the bottom left of the offending post.
2. Click on "Report Reply"
3. When the next screen comes up, give us a short description of why you reported it.
   That description could simply be, "Bumping."
4. We'll take it from there.

I was logged in as an administrator when I did that screen grab, so there are a few items in that list that you won't see. However, "Report Reply" will be there.

I completely agree with David, please go back to the old system.

Ron H

I have found many occasions where being able to reply to a thread to for good reason either to point out an error or to maybe even let people know where to find an item for sale thats listed or to tell them they dont have an email in their profile. Can you set it up so the OP can delete any post in his own thread? That would be the best setup, self moderation.

I would like for O Gauge Forum to " go back to the old system " where remarks could be made. Sometimes the remarks can clarify the situation or let the other person know that contact could not be made or that contact was made. Thanks for considering.

Matt Makens posted:

Can you set it up so the OP can delete any post in his own thread? That would be the best setup, self moderation.

No, that is not possible.

im likely one of the biggest advocates for the for sale forum rules " no reply rule"......that hasnt changed. i hope the forum owners dont even consider changing anything. if a seller is concerned about communications via email,another option is providing a contact phone# in their profile info .when someone emailed me about an item for sale ,i usually provided a phone# as a backup.

i would not object to allowing replies as long as the topic was not bumped back to the top of the 1st page

Jim Berger posted:

i would not object to allowing replies as long as the topic was not bumped back to the top of the 1st page

A reply WILL bump the post to the top of the page. That's just how it works and that can't be changed.

I have no problem with no replies allowed - understand the reasons involved.

Three days ago I contacted a seller using the email address in his profile in regards to catalogs/magazines being offered for free but buyer has to pick up in person. My email to seller did not get bounced back to me as undeliverable. Discovered seller was on here 13 hours ago but never got reply from him so far. Have no idea if he actually got my email. Since I can't reply in the 'For Sale or Trade' forum I looked for other posts seller made here in other OGR forums and quoted his most recent post there asking him to let me know if items were still available. Know this is a roundabout way to reply to a seller and leads to unrelated replies on a thread about a particular topic. Could be simple as seller has not bothered to reply to my email yet and/or update his listing if item is no longer available.

I didn't mind the odd bump but agree some people abused that. I am guilty of posting "Email sent" too but last time I did that I also bought the items for sale - I won't bump just for sake of bumping. In that case seller never updated the listing so if the post is still on here would appear items are still for sale. I did briefly consider replying to that listing that I bought the items but figured the thread would be deleted in time plus didn't see why I should have my reply bump it up adding to the clutter Rich does not want to keep housecleaning. This was before the no replies permitted rule went into effect. 

Not sure what answer here is. Whatever system is put in place for the 'For Sale or Trade' forum I work with it and adapt to any changes made. 

I liked the old system, but people do not have to post "email sent" and things like that.  Possibly a middle ground somewhere.

I like the "For Sale & Wanted to Buy" Forums and don't want them to disappear.  I've learned to follow the rules.  Updating a post with multiple items is a pain that I deal with.  

Would it be possible to have a history of my postings available linked to my profile as another pulldown near "pending posts"?  We could then edit or delete posts without having to search back through pages of listings.  I don't really care if my posts are on the first page as other people post their goods.

The "email sent" reply issue is curious.  I always have sent an email, but usually follow it with a email sent posting as well.  It always seemed to be a good check and balance.  Not only did it ensure the email was noticed, but it also let others know of the interest.  Some items might have a lot of interest.  It is the sellers choice as to who to make the deal with.  

I had a similar thing where the reply was useful.  About a year ago, I saw an item come up for sale that I pretty much never have seen for sale before.  I immediately sent an email, but it turned out the poster had a typo in his email address in his profile.  (I didn't know it was a typo, it wasn't something obvious like misspelling comcast, verizon,yahoo, gmail, etc.)

I only then posted a reply, indicating it was because the email bounced.

Of course someone felt the need to chime in and complain to me about it, even though I stated (IMO) a valid reason for exactly why.  It seemed he had had his post deleted because he bumped it, so he was ticked off that I did a communication or two via the thread before the seller fixed his email address.

The thing about potential splitting of sales across multiple members is also a very good point, IMO.

Of course, the "this is a great item, I had one for 5 years, you will love it" from posters other than the seller, bumping because you reduce a $400 item by $5,  and stuff like that is not really fair, I can see the arguments there.

-Dave

decoynh posted:

...........................Would it be possible to have a history of my postings available linked to my profile as another pulldown near "pending posts"?  We could then edit or delete posts without having to search back through pages of listings.  I don't really care if my posts are on the first page as other people post their goods.

ANYONE can do a search of postings you have made using advanced search.  It can easily be selected to only cover certain forums, such as "For Sale or Trade".  Once you do the search, I think you can also bookmark it or add it to your favorites so you don't have to do the search again. 

(I know, so old fashioned, capturing something like this on your own computer rather than on the server of the forum you are looking at, but it works!)

As an example, I believe this is a link to all of your For Sale threads that currently exist.  I set it to not show replies, just original posts (not that that would matter with the current reply restriction), and I sorted it by date. (click on "Show Search Query" if you want to see the search setup)

-Dave

Thanks for the consideration on the topic Rich.

  A good question can teach as well as it sells sometimes. The alternate is a new thread anyhow. Bumps never bothered me much unless I mistook an ad for a topic because the title can easily be mistaken for active or informative topic. Ads can on occasion become more informative than some realise, especially oddball and prewar questions. Email sent...the best way to avoid ideas of auctioning and "sniping" by a later and or higher offer. Seems like other buyers or sellers of a highly competitive nature would be the complainers unless the number of "rotten" ads just hasn't been obvious to me.

Plus, my mail was screwed up for a few days recently too. Rejects took over 24 hours to return undelivered too. Some worked, some didn't. Being able to get a quick shout out in may have helped if I was "shopping".

 I.e., I WOULD like to see a FS or WTB or TRD. required in the titles beginning though.

If nothing else I think it would shed some clearer light on just how long ads ride in the topics, and how much space is on the right is being "abused". If it becomes apparent it's a bigger issue than perceived after all, we (you ) could flip flop back again. Those that complain can easily recognise and skip them easier imo.,; just like any other topic they have no interest in, only much easier to spot TOO avoid.

I am among those who would ask that replies be permitted on both the Sale and Buy boards.  A couple of weeks ago, someone seeking to purchase an engine I was willing to sell posted to the Wanted to Buy board, but did not have an e-mail listed in his profile or in the body of his post.   I'm mindful that it was his error, and he was SOL, but, so was I.  So, why not give it another try?  Thanks

My complaint with the new rule is that my items for sale don't sell as well with the new rule. I do understand however that the goal of the forum is not to sell things, but to meet others in the hobby and get your questions. 

Respectfully

Dave45681 posted:

decoynh posted:

...........................Would it be possible to have a history of my postings available linked to my profile as another pulldown near "pending posts"?  We could then edit or delete posts without having to search back through pages of listings.  I don't really care if my posts are on the first page as other people post their goods.

ANYONE can do a search of postings you have made using advanced search.  It can easily be selected to only cover certain forums, such as "For Sale or Trade".  Once you do the search, I think you can also bookmark it or add it to your favorites so you don't have to do the search again. 

(I know, so old fashioned, capturing something like this on your own computer rather than on the server of the forum you are looking at, but it works!)

As an example, I believe this is a link to all of your For Sale threads that currently exist.  I set it to not show replies, just original posts (not that that would matter with the current reply restriction), and I sorted it by date. (click on "Show Search Query" if you want to see the search setup)

-Dave

Thanks much Dave.  Today is a great day, I just learned something new.

I think if we all act like adults and play by the rules he will reconsider,I miss the old way a lot,but have seen a lot of abuse....so lets hope for the best....Happy Thanksgiving to all....

decoynh posted:

Thanks much Dave.  Today is a great day, I just learned something new.

Glad it helped!

-Dave

My 2 cents is to allow replies and count on people to report abusers.  As mentioned in some previous posts, problems with emails being pinged back or snagged by spam filters makes it hard to know if an email got through.

Keep it as it is. Not only do replies bump the thread, it also bumps all the topics on the sidebar. There used to be days when half the topics in the sidebar were generated on the buy sell forums. 

Pete

Thank you for the consideration noted above.  I too, liked the previous way it was set up with replies.  Makes it a very good venue for selling and buying here. 

I like it the way it is but, The seller/buyer ( for wanted adds)  now needs to remove the add when they sell or get what they wanted, so other's know. Perfect example I had some one wanting a item this past week I sent e-mail with the exact item he wanted but no reply and last I looked ( about 3 days ago add was still there) as for not knowing if a email doesn't get thru I seem to always get notified by some thing out there either full or not correct address, etc. So I know if it doesn't reach someone. 

Gpritch posted:

The "email sent" reply issue is curious.  I always have sent an email, but usually follow it with a email sent posting as well.  It always seemed to be a good check and balance.  Not only did it ensure the email was noticed, but it also let others know of the interest.  Some items might have a lot of interest.  It is the sellers choice as to who to make the deal with.  

I agree, I always thought it to be a courtesy to all to know an interest was taken in the item.  I thought the real problem was with self bumpers who added comments to get back up the selling list.

Why not just have the ad SELF CANCEL after ten days? You want to relist go for it!

Gunny

I am guilty of the "email sent" reply but only as a heads up to the potential buyer or seller. After the first contact all particulars are worked out through personal email. It's not rocket science. We are adults and need to act as such. IMO.

Mark

I think people make WAY TOO BIG of a deal about bumping a for sale post anyway. It's either going to sell or it's not. Bumping it WILL NOT make the difference. Just like shill bidding and sniping on auction sites.... they will never completely stop it. Besides that, if people have nothing better to do but sit around and report what other people said or did on a forum, maybe they need to actually take their trains out of the box and go run them.

There is definitely a lot less activity on the For Sale threads, and I would guess people are selling even less than they were. 

I don't like the new way. have actually cut back on my searching and buying.

Laidoffsick posted:

...if people have nothing better to do but sit around and report what other people said or did on a forum, maybe they need to actually take their trains out of the box and go run them.

We have a BINGO!