Portable Micro SD TF USB Mini Stereo Speaker Music Player MP3 on Lionel series 6000 gondola

I made a voltage car (gunrunnerjohn's design and assistance) out of a Lionel boxcar. To get track power to measure the voltage of and also power the volt meters, I got some Lionel 4 wheel trucks with pick up rollers at my LHS (around $20 I think) and swapped out the original ones on the car.

If I could do it over, I would use super flex wire instead of the #18 or #20 stranded I used that tries to bind the trucks when making a sharp turn. The regular wire just isn't flexible enough. I think MTH and maybe Weaver may also have powered trucks, but my LHS didn't have them.

I would try one of these from eBay. I use them to convert AC power for all sorts of applications including lighting passenger cars. The output voltage is adjustable and you should be able to tune it to the proper voltage for your device. then take a USB cable and cut the computer end off so you can wire the device directly to the power supply

AC to DC Buck Converter

The module above will do the job.  

For something smaller you could use a bridge rectifier, capacitor and an LM7805 voltage regulator.  You will likely also need a heat sink on the regulator.  Dropping from track voltage to 5 volts will make a lot of heat, which is why the buck converters are usually recommended instead of linear regulators, but in this case the size of the modules may be a deterrent.  To cur down on the heat, if you are running a command system with constant voltage to the track, you could add a string of diodes in series to cut the input voltage to the regulator.  each diode will drop about .6 volts.  In addition, instead of a full wave rectifier, using a half wave will give you half the starting voltage.  

Sorry if this is incoherent, I'll try to explain better if it turns out to be needed. 

Thanks to all for the replies on this topic.

rtr12 what wheels with pick up rollers did you use? Do you have the Lionel  part number?

Unfortunately I don't have the part number and I tossed the box. I tried to find them on Lionel's website yesterday, no luck. I'll try again. If you are not in a big hurry, I can get the number from my LHS next time I visit, but it might be next week.

I added some pictures, maybe someone else will know the part number? They were not pre-wired, had to add the wiring.

With respect to the voltage management issue in going from command track voltage 18V AC down to 5V DC; and you need several Watts of power to drive an audio system.

The AC-DC module that Matt shows above would be nice...but can you fit it?!  Note if you plan to use this on a DCS system you need to add the 22uH choke before the bridge rectifier.  And if you have some chokes from a rolling stock LED project, you may need to re-visit the power capability since the current going thru the inductor will be much higher in this application.

Another option which unfortunately gets complicated real quickly is to use a "mini" DC-DC converter module.  These are apparently popular for r/c airplanes.  Search eBay for "mini DC buck converter."  For example here's a side-by-side of a typical LM2596 buck converter module vs. one of these mini modules.

Several tedious details.  Obviously this is DC-DC so you need to add your own bridge-rectifier.  The mini module does not have a large input capacitor so you need to add that too.  And of course you need the 22uH choke for DCS operation.

Another problem is the allowed input voltage to the mini module.  Some say 24V DC maximum.  So if coming from full command voltage through a bridge rectifier, the DC voltage can/will exceed 24V DC.  So some voltage dropping is needed - not rocket science (a few diodes for example) but another tedious detail to manage.  Note that most/all LM2596 DC modules handle 30V DC or more on the input.

I'm simply suggesting the idea of breaking down the problem to deal with space/fit issues.  Here's a recycled photo from another blog where I put the bridge, choke, and capacitor in a compact assembly...followed by a DC-DC module.  The separate elements gives some flexibility perhaps fitting different components where there's a nook or cranny.

Here's the entire blog post which has additional pictures

http://www.jcstudiosinc.com/Co...-Using-12V-LED-Strip

Revised 6:33 pm

Dear rtr12

No rush, this is still in the planning and budgeting stage. The roller look like what I am looking for. How are you attaching the rollers and wheels to the box car? Are you using the rivet or a stud and the horse hose clip?

Dear Stan

I run a ZW old school (no DCS or TMCC or anything else, yet)  and I have all parts the in your diagram. Cool. I have to see how much space I have on the Lionel series 6002. I might have to do this in two cars. A box car to to have all the electronics and maybe a flatbed car to hold the show car (Hot wheel). I might even have to run a tender between the two cars. Or have two separate cars (one flatbed and one box car) with two sets of roller pick up one for each car.

I had a Lionel boxcar and my LHS had the Lionel trucks with pick up rollers. Both items from the same manufacturer. New trucks were just like the old. The pick up roller trucks mounted exactly like the ones I took off, so same hardware, same holes, same mounting. All I added was the wires. Very easy, but the trucks were about $20-$22 or so.

I will ask at my LHS next week when the owner gets back. He can look up what he sold me and I can get the part number.

You might be able to get just the pick up roller and add it to your existing truck, but my LHS didn't have any separate sale pick up rollers and I wouldn't know where to start to find one that would fit? This would definitely be the cheaper option if possible though.

Dear Matt

I purchased over 50 of those AC to DC convertors. Just for these type of project and for future projects.  They are perfect and you do not have to roll your own in this case. The parts to build it would cost more than what the Chinese sell it at complete.

Dear John

Thanks for your reply. In this case I already have those power convertors.

Dear rtr12

Was that $20-22 for the pair or each roller wheels mounts?

Dear All

Now I have a way to get track power to the MP3 player.

Dear Stan2004

What speaker would you recommended for this type of set up. Would the same speak apply to the crossing gate or another type of speak?

For rolling-stock you're limited by the width of the car - up to about 2" or so.  I figure the manufacturers of sound-cars or engines have done their due diligence so that would be the most convenient source.  Likewise for the track-side accessories, manufacturers of crossing-gate sound boards undoubtedly did their homework to choose suitable speakers.  4 or 8 ohm is OK for the 82 cent eBay amplifier module (it uses the PAM8403 amplifier IC).  The speaker I show in the picture was ripped from the eBay MP3 cube player which is 4 ohms and about 1-3/4" diameter.

But since you're in the planning stage, think about where to put the speaker.  You want to have a sealed chamber, essentially as large as practical, around one side of the speaker.  If you're going to install the AC-DC power module in a boxcar, that might be the best place as I'd think there's more room.  Or if you are making a platform for the Hotwheel to sit on in the gondola, that might make for a long rectangular chamber underneath.  There are flat, say, 1 cm thick speakers that you could then mount directly under the Hotwheel if that would aid the illusion of where the sound was generated if that's what you're trying do.

One option for a power car is to use a caboose for power tethered to the car with speaker/mini FM device. I used a transfer caboose tethered to a Beep or Plymouth because it came with roller pickups on both trucks. There should be plenty of room for your power supply and you won't have to go out and find trucks for your boxcar or gondola.

That should leave plenty of room for your speaker in the other car too.

Beep tethered to transfer caboose with a simple two wire tether to bridge dead spots.

Pete

Kris, price was for a pair of trucks. Still coming up short with Lionel's search though, tried again yesterday.

Some Lionel and MTH car trucks will accept add-on pickups, much cheaper than replacing the trucks.  I'd examine that option first.

Dear Norton

Good point I never even though about a powered caboose and then a power tethered.

Dear rtr12

Thanks for the info. $20-22 for the pair I can live with, each ouch! I hate to say it do that will probably the most expensive part of project.

Dear John

Any suggestion that I for the Lionel and MTH pickup that would fit a Lionel series 6002 car? 

Dear Stan

I read the other thread as well, wow if it works as well you stated this will blow the doors off the box car.

Let's see a picture of the bottom of the truck of that car.  If this is the PW Gondola, I think the pickup assembly sells for $7.50 last time I checked.  If they're plastic trucks, there's one for those as well.

I mentioned the separate pick up rollers earlier. That was my first choice too, but my LHS didn't have any, they did have the replacement trucks. In my case I had no idea where to even start looking. I haven't even been able to find the replacement trucks I got on the Lionel website.

Maybe next time I will post here for assistance, probably should have done that first last time.

Good plan.

I have both types of pickups in my parts box, as well as several styles for newer Lionel trucks.

Does the gondola with HotWheel have other onboard electronics (lights, whatever) or is this a strictly sound affair?  If it's just sound then why not skip the tether from the boxcar-to-gondola.  If the speaker is placed in the boxcar - maybe on the end of the boxcar closest to the gondola - then no tether is needed. Steam engines with a tether between locomotive-tender have the speaker in the tender even though the sounds are coming from the locomotive - can't tell the difference.

Also wrt the speaker, perhaps you can find one of those animated sound boxcars that has broken electronics and hence get it cheap off eBay or a train swap meet or put a posting on Want-to-Buy.  In addition to installed powered trucks, the chassis ought to have a grille already punched out to mount a speaker probably facing downward to the track.  I'd think that would save a lot of time rather than grinding on a steel chassis to make a speaker vent.

And how is the sound activated?  Any time there's track power?  And/or is there an on/off mechanical switch?  Or maybe an IR sensor on the boxcar triggers when it passes some point on the layout and the sound is meant to play for 1 minute or whatever?  Since this is in the planning stage, this is the time to, uhh, plan.

They are baiting me with the sound project, then there is this other thread with... They know I'm weak. May need some more pick up rollers if they set the hook while I'm still fiddling with the bait.

I just bought two different types of MP3 sound boards off eBay, I'm going to see which one is easiest to interface to a TMCC remote.  I may also interface one of them to one of the cheap eBay wireless remotes.  I want to add sounds to some freight cars, I figure it would be cool to have a few that were playing real freight car sounds.

Dear Everyone

Thanks for the replies. I have purchased the Hot wheels car and I am waiting for it to be delivered. This is not the standard Hot wheel car that you can pick up anywhere. This is the Hot wheels Elite One which is 1:50 or 1:43 scale. Note the normal Hot wheels are 1:64 scale. Once I have the car in my hand I will try to match it up with the Lionel or MTH freight car and see what works best.

Dear rtr 12

I am sorry I did not want to get you angry  at me. By the way this is where the "Knight Rider" led system is going.

Dear Stan

I was thinking of place the "Knight Rider" led system under the Hot wheels car which then would be mounted on the flatbed. This system would need track power to power the led lights. In the box car I was going to place the MP3 player with the speaker. This would play the theme music from the TV show. Once track power it applied I want the have the led come on first and then the music to play. I would have make some kind of delay between the two.  This was my original idea but comment is invited.

Kris, no anger here at all, not even a little bit. It would take a LOT more than just dangling electronic projects in front of me for that. I really do like all these projects (the I'm weak part), it was just my attempt at adding some humor (green grinning face at the end). Sorry it came across wrong, no offense was intended.

GRJ, hope you will post your findings and project details when you get finished. You and Stan should write a book on all these electronic projects you guys come up with, I would guarantee the sale of at least one copy.  

Well that's easy.  Load the MP3 file into any MP3 editor (freeware/shareware) and simply add a silent gap of 10 seconds or whatever at the beginning of the sound, re-save.

The $1.07 MP3 player appears to re-start at the beginning of a single MP3 file when power is initially applied.  By extension, you could add a, say, 10 minute or 1 hour silent gap at the end of the song so that for each application of track power, the song only plays once.  Otherwise the MP3 player advances to any other MP3 files or restarts playing a single MP3 file if that's all that's on the microSD card.  So, again, it's worth the upfront effort to talk thru exactly what you want to do.  Measure twice, cut once.

I think you said you're running conventional?  Well that too is a control system - so for example you could trigger the lights and sound whenever the Whistle button is pressed.  Or toggle it ON/OFF with each the Bell button.  It only takes about a $1 of assorted simple components (resistor, capacitor, diode, transistor) to make a DC offset detector.  Or if you use uncoupling tracks you could activate the car by positioning it over an uncoupling magnet. 

Or like GRJ is proposing you could add a wireless remote control to turn it on/off; on eBay you can get combo remote-FOB and receiver with relay for the boxcar for less than $5 or so.

Dear All

Thanks for the replies.

Dear Rtr12

I have also had post purchase blues. I purchase an item then find out latter that I could have purchased it cheaper somewhere else.

Dear GRJ

Which wireless remote are you looking at on EBay? That was one of the ideas I had and would like that type of on/off switch for this project. Once the wow factor is gone, all the bells and whistle can get annoying very fast.

Dear Stan

I currently run everything conventional but I do install  22 ohm choke on my roll your own project just in case in the future I do run TMCC or DCS.

MP3 editor cool that easy, I though I need more parts to add to get the delay.

I also agree with you that GJR idea of wireless remote is best idea for the on and off switch. I really do not want to running around the layout chasing this engine to turn it off.

With a combo of the MP3 player board and the remote, it looks like I can have a complete package that I can play four different tracks on command from the remote.  Obviously, when I interface something like this with a processor, I can select many more options.

Here's what I have.

4-Channel Wireless RF Remote & Receiver

There are four outputs, they go high when the remote is activated. 

I am going to try mating it with this MP3 player.

MP3 Player Board

I just have to invert the outputs of the receiver to trigger the selection inputs on the board.

Dear john

Wow! You put this together already or is it still in the planning stage?

Just waiting on the module.  I have spotted a couple of other possibilities as well, one just has FLASH and no SD card, but it'll be cheaper.  Since I don't plan on having hours of sound, that would probably be a good choice.

I will have to toss in some inverters to flip the polarity of the remote outputs, but that's easy.  I'll probably use a CMOS inverter IC between the remote and the music module.

With the remote, I'll be able to play four different sound files, plenty for what I'd like to do with it.

Hi John

Let me know how it can out.

Kris

I'll certainly be posting if I get it all working and in a boxcar.

Looking forward to see the posting.

Just gotta' wait for the Chinese to ship them.

I now have three different styles in the wind, surely one of them will work out for this application.

GRJ, have you considered selling a small board that adapts the 4-channel transmitter to be driven by an ASC or AIU?   The idea is to provide remote control to rolling stock via your existing remote.  The board could have inputs for push-button switches to allow activation for conventional layouts.  So not just turn on/off music modules, but remote couplers, passenger car lighting, dump logs anywhere on layout, etc.  I realize your can do this with ERR aftermarket modules but that requires command control and TMCC.

Or maybe a board that adapts the 99 cent barebones tx/rx modules though would require a PIC or something similar?  Not sure if there are any regulatory hassles for RF emissions.

That's an interesting thought Stan, that shouldn't be that difficult.  I was thinking of creating a TMCC serial stream processing board so that I could trigger stuff from the remote.  Obviously, that's more work, but I want to develop that for other projects as well.

I'll have to think about the board you suggested, I haven't taken one of the remotes apart to see how it functions.  I suspect that you could use the internal remote board and just trigger the button inputs with the relays of the ASC or AIU directly, all you need is the interconnection board.  You can program either for momentary or on/off, seems like it covers a lot of ground.  That actually sounds very easy!   The custom board would basically be an interconnect board.  I suspect many folks would like it if it came all assembled with the remote board as a package so it was Plug-n-Play.

The 99 cent board you show needs to be modulated, so the processor would probably be used.  If you just put a logic level into the input, it only triggers briefly.  I don't see why there would be FCC issues as the modules are doing all the emitting, and they're being sold here.  I have a couple of those sets, and I was going to use one for my Aerotrain to put a reverse light in the observation car controlled from the locomotive.  I don't want to run a tether through seven cars to get the job done!

I think I'll take a closer look at the 4-channel remote, that's actually a very attractive idea to get something up and running pretty quickly.  I have a few SC2's in the closet, as well as a couple of ASC's.  I do have a couple of AIU's as well, so I have all the environments to test with.

Yes, I'm imagining how easy a job it would be if YOU do it!

Seriously though, like your lighting board, this would be a contribution to the hobby. 

When you open up the 4-channel system, you will find a custom chip that has address pins so that you can control more than just 4 channels.  I'd think you'd want something like that (say, at least 64 total devices, 4 at a time, by setting some programming jumpers or whatever).  The protocol is very simple as you can get the datasheet for these RC chip pairs on the web.

As you correctly point out, part of the issue with all this RC stuff is dealing with the momentary vs. latching vs. toggling issues.  So in the case of the ASC/SC2/AIU devices that close an SPDT relay, you have to burst out the RC signal rather than leave it on continuously.  So if you have a loco trying to transmit to a caboose for direction lighting, if you hang the transmitter on the reverse light in the loco/tender, you only want to send a short burst 1/10th second burst on each direction change rather than spraying continuous RF when in reverse.  Obviously that kind of edge logic, timing, serializing of the protocol is child's play for a 50 cent microcontroller chip.

I don't believe there's any economical/practical solution to remote-control of rolling-stock in O-gauge.

I did look at the innards of the remote.  Since the receiver is designed for four channels, I think that would be the first step.  Looking at the chip specification, you could clearly do a lot more, the question is how complicated do I want to make it.  If I adopt the KISS principle, I can have something running very quickly.  OTOH, if I start introducing the processor and additional functionality on the receivers, the complexity goes up.

You'd have to do something to the receiver to handle the additional channels I would imagine.  It looks like you may just set the address pins to a unique address and it'll transfer data if it finds a match.  The $64,000 question is, how do you conveniently manage all the addresses at the transmit side? 

It would be interesting to see if I just set a different address on the receiver and then toggle that bit on the transmitter if it would find the correct receiver.

I found these transmitter/receiver pairs for less than $3/ea, so it's cheap enough to just use those as your raw materials.  They've already laid out the board and components, so just tapping into it would be easier.  The add-on board would have to include a power supply for each side since you don't want to be running on battery power.

The chipset uses the 0,1, or tri-state (floating) position to define the address bits.  So as long as the receiver and transmitter matches, the packet goes thru.

IMHO, I don't think the "average" O-gauge guy will want to fuss with soldering the correct address pin of either the Tx or Rx DIP chips to the high or low or floating bus strips to match the address.

So comparing the 4-channel module RX (left) vs. the barebones RX (right), there is a substantial size difference.  Obviously you need the 22uH inductor, bridge, cap, and some kind of regulator chip anyway.  So if you use an SMT PIC chip (or whatever) rather than that monstrous DIP chip, I think you can build the board using the barebones RX for a similar size as the off-the-shelf 4-channel receiver...AND have a PIC to take care of any logic inversion, and other interface issues such as whether to interpret RC packets as toggle, latch, timed on/off, whatever.  I stand ready to help define rolling-stock functionality from my perspective of those that could use remote-controllability.

As with the lighting board, I think there's great value in plug-and-play with minimal, if any, soldering.  I think banks of addresses need to be done with either the 0.05" DIP style switches (vs. 0.1" spacing).  I don't know how your lighting boards are doing but for modest incremental cost (since you always need the choke, bridge, capacitor, regulator) you can remotely turn off/on the lights, or dim the lights, or whatever.  By setting the receiver board to the same address in each car, you could control/adjust the lights in all the passenger cars of a train at the same time.  I think that would be quite the hat-trick!

As stated earlier, I stand ready to assist whether it be technical or moral support or the proverbial kick in the posterior if that's what's needed to move this along.  It really is sooooo easy to imagine someone else doing this!

I am hoping to be able to use the receiver and transmitter boards as is and just remove those pins and jumper it to a sandwich board that would have the processor, power supply, and interface wires or connector. Same for the transmitter, I'd just remove the push buttons and connect the uP encoded signal to those inputs.  In examining the transmitter button circuit, I may have to use onto-isolation for the button simulation, not a big deal.

Since the transmitter and receiver boards can be had for around $2.50, there's no way I can come close to that buying all the parts, getting is assembled, etc.  I also face the issue of reverse engineering and building the RF sections, yet more work.  I like the idea of a somewhat universal remote control, but if it gets too complicated, it's not going to get done.  I can see it costing considerably more for me to try to replicate the functionality of the existing boards.

As far as the addresses, I have some thoughts on how this might function.  Experimenting with the unit on the bench last night I discovered with the four pins, you have 15 different combinations.  You can activate one, two, three, or all the buttons on the remote at the same time and get the corresponding pattern from the receiver.  That gives you 15 data values, I don't count 0 as that's the quiescent state.

In thinking how the communications might work, it occurs to me that we only want to transmit in bursts, not continuously.  Taking a page from how Legacy communicates uni directionally, here's how I see it working.

• Use two states for each input/output channel.
• The low value indicates the input has gone active, and the receiver's corresponding output would have a high output.
• The high value indicates the input has gone inactive, and the receiver's corresponding output would have a low output.

Using this scheme, I could have seven channels with positive control that follows the state of the input at the transmitter side.

As far as outputs, I'm still thinking on that score.  I see the need to potentially onto-isolate at least some of the outputs for maximum flexibility.  I may consider some small relays for one or more of the outputs.

I can consider piping some address bits down to the sandwich board to expand the capability of the transmitter and receiver.  I would visualize a single transmitter with expanded address capability and perhaps multiple receivers.  Multiple transmitters would probably create signal issues if they could be triggered at the same time.

A cool part of this is that you could trigger the address zero receiver with an unmodified hand-held transmitter by pressing the correct keys together.

Lots of possibilities here...

I'm following with interest here and have been content just to see what others have to show till now.  I've not a whole lot to add, as the little 4 button unit seems like a nice, simple solution with very low cost.  

My comment here has to do with the rather large, and fairly obsolete 533MHz(or there abouts) TX/RX boards.  Yep, they still work, but 2.4GHz cost less, and are smaller.  I think there are some of the older boards that are pretty easy to use, and there is a bit to learn with these newer 2.4 boards, but I can't see designing a new product with outdated TX/RX boards.  The "standard" for hobbyists, and multi-national corporations such as Microsoft and Logitech is the NRF24L01, which costs about $0.80 each.  

If that's too large for the project, these sorts of boards are all over the place, including in your LionChief locomotives:  

In both cases the boards can be used to transmit or receive, or both.  

It's not the ideal choice for something as simple as a button turning on lights, but for more complex devices the NRF24 is quite amazing.  

I have been looking at this board from a company called Next Thing. Note that their website does NOT end with

.com,

it ends with

.co

They have a Kickstarter campaign for a $9 board that will have an ARM processor, WiFi, Bluetooth, and composite out. Then more expensive boards have VGA or HDMI out, which, if its embedded, has no need. I do not understand (yet) what they are proposing for audio.

Biggest issue is, not due until May 2016, which will probably mean November, 2016.

https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...lds-first-9-computer