Portable Micro SD TF USB Mini Stereo Speaker Music Player MP3 on Lionel series 6000 gondola

John, do you have any links to the sources for these boards? 

I'll admit, one of the attractions of the ones I'm considering is ease of use, as well as the very low price.  It also boils down to the intended target application, it's pretty simple.

Starting with something like the NRF24, it's clear that it would be a much larger development task.  I'm not saying it can't be done, I've done far larger projects.  However, that was on someone else's dime, and I had months and sometimes years to get it done.  I also had a supporting cast of board designers, lab technicians, etc.  I'm looking to turn something a lot quicker than that by building on existing products.

You can refer to my tagline as to the complexity of designing a more complex project, I'm not sure the ROI is there.

Mike, the CHIP looks interesting, but clearly not a candidate for this project.

This looks like a really neat idea here, and look forward to seeing a production run.  For now, I find that the Arduino and spin-off clones provide all the power I need for tiny applications, with the ProMini($5-$8) my "go to" product.  There is another that I think is called the 'Tiny" that is half the size, smaller than a postage stamp, but I've not worked with them.  For a more computer like product, the Raspberry Pi is pretty amazing, but cost around $25 and are "large" (about 2.5" x 3.5")

Both of these need add on parts, modules, or 'shields' to wireless or to drive high current things like motors.  

I think you're talking about Tiny-Circuits.  I saw this KickStarter project some time back, they appear to have gone into production.

I used a couple of the Pro-Mini boards, I like the fact they have the USB on-board but are small enough to put into a project.

Yep, That's what I was thinking of, John. 

If I'm thinking right you need the USB FTDI adapter to program a ProMini.  The Micro and nano are not much larger and have the usb FTDI on board. 

You're right, it's the ProNano that I have, not the ProMini.  I remember thinking I didn't want that one as I had to screw around programming it.  With the Nano, you just fire up the IDE and program.

Kris,

Went to my LHS today and they couldn't find the part number for the trucks I got. They thought they still had some in stock, but couldn't find any in the store. They did come up with a couple of numbers for parts purchases, not the ones I got as a complete boxed product. I was hoping someone would see the pictures posted earlier and be able to identify them, but no luck yet there either. I'm still on the hunt, but it is not looking too good.

Here are the numbers my LHS gave me for the Lionel trucks with pick up rollers. They are both priced 'PER TRUCK' and they are a 'LOT' more than the ones I got. One is even more than I got the pair for, ouch. You probably won't want to go with either of those.

610-7281-051 - $16.00 ea. 

692-8649-T60 - $24.50 ea.

They said Lionel calls the pick up rollers collectors, which I also tried searching for and so did they, but no luck there either.

Talk real nice to gunrunnerjohn and maybe he will help you out with just the pick up rollers for your car. If talking nice doesn't do it, try bribery with some sort of nifty electronic device.

I never saw the picture of his truck, so I didn't take it any farther.

Dear rtr12

Thanks for the info.  John is right I did not get the Hot wheel car yet. As soon I get it I will try to mate it with a Flat car and see what the result are and then I will contact John or yourself to get further guidance. Eta of the Hot wheels car is June 1.

Confused

RX vs TX vs NRF24L01. I got lost in the electronic woods can someone please explain in simple American Standard what the difference and benefits are of RX vs TX vs NRF24L01 in regards to this project, I do not need the long version.

That's possibly the only box containing a train item I have ever thrown away.

nvocc5, 

As often happens, the topic got side tracked a bit coming from your question on May 21, 2015 5:50 AM

"Dear GRJ

Which wireless remote are you looking at on EBay? That was one of the ideas I had and would like that type of on/off switch for this project. Once the wow factor is gone, all the bells and whistle can get annoying very fast."

As for the nuts and bolts of it, the 4 button module GRJ talked about is simple and will get it done.  As to the differences in TX(transmitter), RX(receiver), and the other modules, it only comes into play if you are trying to link the system to another  control system, such as TMCC.  Or if you want to run many remote devices from one control, or have them talk to each other.  As for the details, the older 500MHz range boards had one board to transmit, and another board to receive data.  they are relatively large boards, and also, relatively expensive, at about $2.50 for the pair.  For the NRF24, these are 2.4GHz modules that both transmit and receive. they are quite tiny but are just a little more complex to work with.  

For your project, the 4 button is probably more than is needed to turn it on and off.  

There are many alternatives to remotely controlling your Knight Rider lights and sound animation.  Here's another one I hacked together using a $2.28 eBay remote control fob transmitter and receiver for LED lighting strips.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-RF...;hash=item43d3d63247

The fob on left is meant to turn on/off, adjust brightness, select from flashing patterns, etc. of those 12V DC LED strips we are using in passenger cars.  The receiver on the right has takes DC input and has the RF receiver and the electronics to drive the LED strips...up to 12 peak Amps it says (!).  But the key is the input wires says 5-24V DC. 

So here's the sound "system" using the $1.07 eBay MP3 player module, $0.82 amplifier module, and speaker.  The LED controller gets 5V DC and switches it on/off to the sound system under RF remote control.

And here it is in action.  Note that only the ON/OFF toggle button of the fob is used to either apply 5V or nothing to the sound system.  So all the other buttons and features are not used.  Note also that with a single MP3 file stored on the microSD card, when you first apply power, the MP3 player goes back to the beginning of the song...which I believe is what you want in your application.

The switched 5V DC could also go to the HotWheels lights.  And by putting in a 10 second silence gap at the beginning of the MP3 song file, the lights would come on first and the theme song would follow after that delay.

Whether it be TX, RX, or 24RF01, 4-channel, or whatever, I introduce this in the spirit of a discussion forum. As Dale H aptly put it in another thread,

"Lots of ways to do things, no one is right or wrong. I share my experiences here like everyone else and add my 2 cents"

Hi Stan

Thanks this is so cool!

Amazing what you can string together with cheap Chinese parts.

NICE ! I bet I can use this in my Polar Express Diner to play the "Hot Chocolate song!"

Yes John if you know how and what order. I really appreciate that both you and Stan2004 had show me the way how to do this project. Nice song on the video "Danger Zone" from Top Gun. Both of you enjoy the rest of the Memorial Day and Thank you for your service to your country.

Dear Stan

I am using your design of May 24, 2015 in this thread. This why I am using 12 V RF if you have a better idea I am listening. Again roll your own is fine with me. As always it is a pleasure following your advise and see what new ideas you come up with.

Dear Norton

Thanks for the tip. I changed the design from a box car to a caboose as you suggested. I pick one up for $24 on the website and it already had the pick rollers on it.

Hi Kris,

So if I understand your plan, we have something like the following - sorry for the cheesy cut-and-paste job from various pictures:

Did you get your car and modify it to accept the sequencing LEDs from the 555/4017 board?  I'd like to see that in action (video).  Does the module do want you want or do you need ideas on how to modify it to achieve the desired lighting effect?

So to summarize (correct as needed).  The caboose lights are on whenever track power is present.  The exact number of LEDs, LED colors, resistors values, etc. are TBD but will be powered by the LM2596 module.   The LM2596 module will be set to 5V DC.  The remote turns on the Knight-Rider "system" by applying 5V to the components to the right of the remote receiver in the photo.  You have an MP3 file of the Knight-Rider theme song with a silence gap of many seconds at the beginning.  This way the LED sequence animates the car lights for a while before the song starts.

Do I have this right?  How far along are you with buying modules, wiring things together, etc.?

If this may be used later in a DCS system you probably want to add the 22uH inductor/choke now - or at least know what you need when the time comes.  Do you already have some 22uH inductors in hand?  The power running thru this inductor will be substantially higher than for the typical LED passenger car project so I want to make sure whatever you have is suitable and/or I'll suggest an alternative if need be.

And thank you for your imagination in coming up with this fun project. 

Keep asking questions and I'll try to help best I can.  Keep in mind that I'll be expecting video when it comes together!

HI Stan

You got it down perfectly. I have all the electronic part you have in the picture. The only things I am waiting for is the caboose and the flat auto car carriers.

I was thinking of adding a FRED on the caboose. Also one more point there will be a tether between the caboose and the auto flat car carrier for the Knight Rider led. The sound file I picked for this project has the sound of a GM 350 motor starting and then it has the sound of the Knight Rider LED movement sound.

The reason for the tether is I also have a few other car that I would like to use on this set up that do not need the tether. IE: The Back to the Future DeLorean, The A-Team van, Magnum PI Ferrari and the Enterprise. Do not know how I am going to mount the Enterprise yet. As Scotty would say "I am working on it" Maybe something similar to the boat cradle that Lionel used, I do not know yet.  I already the sound file for all these set ups. This is my 1980's theme train set up. I might also add a Bell 222 helicopter to the line up (Airwolf).  I have all these cars in my inventory already and the Enterprise.

So now my question is would the MP 3 player and the remote be able to handle all this?

I have one project that I have been working and that should be finished in a few weeks. This is the next project when time allow me to build. I have a three year old and he take up most of my free time so this might take a few months to build but I want have this finished around the holidays. I have some friend and family coming for the holidays and want to show them my new theme train set up.

All I have right now all the parts in a bid wait for the build. I have not sequencing LEDs from the 555/4017 board yet, That should be done sometime next month as we have a family vacation coming up soon.

22uH inductor/choke I have that in stock as well.

I would like to thank you for your guidance as this would have been a dream running around in my head and not on the track without your help.

All you have to do now is send the car to Stan and he'll assemble it.

Since you'll have 5V DC available, should be no problem.  I'd look into one of those blinking LEDs that cost 25 cents or whatever.  You may need to add a resistor but very cheap and simple.  Bigger task is fabricating a mount if you want it look like a "real" FRED-EOTD.

The 555/4017 flasher circuit looks to simply need a DC voltage to operate so a 2-wire tether/connector carrying the switched 5V ought to do it.

Well, now you've moved the target.  The $1.07 MP3 player does not have "direct" addressability meaning you cannot command it to play a specific MP3 file.  It does have the ability to go to the next file or previous file with a button press but that requires additional controls or channels not in a simple on/off remote. 

If you need the direct addressability then consider GRJ's project where the more sophisticated MP3 module has that.  In other words, using his universal remote method, you could use a low-cost 4 channel transmitter to directly select 4 sounds.

One other "power management" detail that must be considered is handling power dropouts.  Since you're running conventional, what is your expectation when you reverse or stop the train?   Without some reserve power, the electronics will reset everytime you press the Direction button.  Additionally some experimentation is needed to insure there is enough reserve capacitance on that LM2596 module to keep the electronics from resetting over short-term dropouts over switches, dirty track sections, etc.

I don't think the caboose had a true EOTD, they usually just had markers.  Some had a blinking strobe along the roof line as well.

Dear Stan

The FRED is part from Evans Design, nothing fancy but it works.

http://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/fred.html

I have been following GRJ's project with great interest. But for right now I will stick to the original remote with the on and off feature.  Maybe in the near future I will look at greater interest but not now.

Power management: I have followed your threads and purchased some caps along the way. I was think of using 1000 uf cap or is this over kill? What would you suggest as the cap rating?

Dear John

Very funny. If they are the clear type of markers I could glue a led to it. I should get the caboose next week so I check to see if it has blinking strobe.

Are you going to operate it from the supplied 3V coin battery...or do you want it to run from 5V derived from track voltage?  If the latter you might send them an email asking what they recommend. Or, since you must have a stash of 1N4148/1N914 diodes if you're following rtr12's Knight Rider Flasher schematic, you could use, say, 3 of those diodes in series to drop the 5V down to about 3V.

Unfortunately a little more complicated than that.  Since you are running conventional, the voltage on the track is not as high as the command-mode environment many previous discussions have assumed.  Lower track voltage means less voltage available to any capacitor meaning less energy is put into reserve.

So again, the question is what is your expectation about how the system needs to behave when you press the direction button.  If you want everything running (sound, lights) during the 1-second or whatever that you press the Direction button, then you probably need to go to a supercap.  But if don't mind the lights and sound dropping out...and all you want it to "protect" the MP3 player from resetting during momentary power outages, then I can devise some simple method to, say, provide a reserve capacitor on the MP3 player electronics.

Supercaps can be somewhat spendy - $5 or so.

It looks like a 3V device.  I believe it's just a flashing LED and a battery, you can do this for peanuts yourself.

Dear John

Do you have the item number handy for the flashing led?

Not off-hand, I just look for "flashing LED" on many sites, they're are plentiful.  I'm assuming you want red and probably 3mm in diameter.

Here's 20 of them for $1.70, this site has plenty of other LED's at decent prices as well.

http://www.led-switch.com/3mm%20LED.htm

Dear John

Thank you!

Kris

Dear Stan

I was planning on running it off the derived track power. Thanks for the information in regards to the 1N4148/1N914 for dropping down the volt from 5 to 3. One quick question The red and white ribbon on 1N4248/1N914 does it make a different in the install or are they bi-polar?

Supercaps: Which one?

http://www.digikey.com/scripts...q=635701987365760318

http://www.digikey.com/scripts...q=635701987365760318

Or something else?

Your links are no good. You have to know exactly how you're going to apply the supercap before you make a selection.

I would use a current limiting resistor instead of diodes for the voltage drop for an LED.  The voltage range an LED runs in is quite narrow, too little and it doesn't light.  Too much, and you kill it with over-current.  However, with a current limiting resistor, you run much less risk.

If you have a 5V power supply, and you're lighting one LED (flashing or otherwise), a 100 ohm resistor is a good choice.

Look for the band on the diode, it may be a different color but should be on one side.  Here are two examples - a 1N4148 and the common 1N400x.  Band on the right is the cathode and corresponds to schematic symbol shown below.

As GRJ says, depends on what you're trying to do - or how much energy you need in reserve.  Re-read what I asked about what needs to stay alive during track voltage interruptions.

Speaking of which, I could have sworn you had an image of the 3V coin battery flashing LED but now I get the following. Are your links good?!

Here's a photo from the Evans site.

What's that blob between the battery and the LED?  If going this route (I got the impression Kris already had this in hand since he says "it works"), I still suggest first line of defense is ask Evans if/how to power it from 5V.  The blob could be electronics (I suppose it could just be an on/off switch) that operates at 3V so a resistor may work but not be what the circuit wants.  It could even be that this particular flashing LED operates just fine at 5V and he needs to do nothing more. For example, here's another vendor with a 1.8mm Red flashing LED which suggests hook it up directly to a 9V battery!

For those "otherwise" LEDs consider his red markers.  Red LEDs operate at around 2V.  A 100 ohm resistor dropping 3V (from 5V down to 2V) is running 30 mA which seems a bit high.  I'd think maybe 150 or 220 ohms which would get the current to about 20 mA or 15 mA.

Dear John and Stan

Supercaps

Digi-Key Part Number

589-1008-ND

Digi-Key Part Number

589-1007-ND

Amount of LED currently unknown: marker LED, strobe (maybe and maybe not) and a short strip of LED light on the roof. This is an unknown at this time as soon as I start building I will the correct numbers.

Stan thanks for the quick lesson of which side is which on diodes.

In this set up I think it would best to  ""protect" the MP3 player from resetting during momentary power outages" If MP3 reset every hit dirt spot or something else that would drive me nuts. 

Blob is the on and off button.

Stan, it looks like they inhibit the link, it was apparently in my cache so I thought it was displayed.

I don't know if I can do any better with these links but I get:

5V, 2.5F   $5.10 in small qty:

http://www.digikey.com/product...131084?k=589-1008-ND

and

5V 1.5F    $4.40 in small qty:

http://www.digikey.com/product...131084?k=589-1007-ND

I think those are in the ball-park IF you want to maintain audio and lighting during Direction button presses.  You get a MP3 player, microSD card, and audio amp, for less than the cost of a supercap!  Seems pretty spendy to me but it's your call.

Since it sounds like you have the 12V LED strips, consider that the typical strips have a set of 3 LEDs every 2 inches.  You can short out (ask me how if you don't know what I mean) 2 of the LEDs so that you just have 1 powered LED per 2" section.  You still use the resistor on the strip which is typically 150 ohms.  In this way you now have an LED strip which runs on 5V DC so you can power it directly from your 5V LM2596 output.  And you get the convenience of the LED adhesive strip and pre-assembled white surface-mount LEDs (can be a hassle working with them piece-by-piece).

So just to be clear, you don't mind the audio and lights turn dropping out when you press Direction.  If that's the case, I think you only need to protect the MP3 player from resetting which I think can be done with just a diode+cap (not a supercap) on the power supply to the MP3 player.  I will wait for your confirmation and then I can make some measurements to confirm.  A simple diode+cap should run only 25 cents or so...much less than a supercap to keep all the balls in the air during dropout!

Understood on the blob being a simple on/off switch.  Again, why not send an email to Evans asking them how to power there flasher from 5V.  For $5.79 I think they should provide a considered answer!

Dear John and Stan

Thank you for your advise, experience and patience with me and this project.

I believe John said it best in another thread we can proto type this to death and then start building it at twice the original price or something like that.

Proto type I

Will not have the following multi control and a supercap.

I will wait for John to build and perfect the use of  multi control or find an alternate later.

I can not see spend US$5 on the supercap plus shipping which would bring the price of the part up to US$8.00. Digikey is a fine company and I am not knocking them. Once I have a larger order with them then I will consider purchase of the supercap. So yes Stan at this time I will go with the simple diode+cap.

John quick question about the polyswitch (fuse). I do not want to build this and then have it derail or something else fire  the whole thing in a short circuit. What polyswitch  protect would you recommended?

"You can short out  2 of the LEDs so that you just have 1 powered LED per 2" section." O.K. Stan I do not know how to do it so I am asking how?

I will contact Evans directly and see what they have to say about running it at 5v DC.

For your application, I'd use a PTC that has a trip current of around an amp for this application.

Dear Stan

I contacted Evans early this morning and they responded this morning. Shelly from Evans stated that "5 V is too much for that little LED". "You can add a 270 ohm resistor to protect it." So that that took care of that problem.

Since they supply it directly with 3 volts from the battery, I suspect that's a pretty conservative value.

I edited this photo from another thread.  The basic idea is to modify a 12V strip for use with only 5V DC.  As we all know by now, each 2" section consists of 3 LEDs plus a 150 ohm resistor.  By adding a thin gauge jumper wire around 2 of the 3 LEDs, you now have just 1 LED plus the 150 ohm resistor.  You do this on all sections and you now have a strip that runs at 5V DC.  The current per LED will be about 10 mA.

Obviously you now have only 1 LED for every 2 inches.  So for a caboose, maybe you can only "fit" 3 sections (6 inches).  If you need more light, you could add a second 6" strip in parallel. 

This is just a technique that takes advantage of the insanely low price of these 12V strips (a few pennies per LED).  So not using 2 out of 3 LEDs is no big deal considering the cost/time savings vs. buying individual LEDs, figuring out how to mount them, etc.

There seem to be variants of the orientation (vertical/horizontal) of the 3 LEDs within each 2" section, but the circuit seems to be the same.  So as long as you "get" what you're trying to do, it should be a fairly simple mod.