Power to TIU

This Radio Shack AC power supply used in the 18 volt, switched position, will work with cord plug adaptor M

Radio shack shows out of stock online and I can not get out to the nearest store which is approximately 35 miles from where I am is there another alternative or some other place to get this shipped to me.

the fellows layout I am working on would prefer the 50 Watt Bricks

Bobbie,

Any MTH Z-Brick (Z500, Z750, Z1000) will power the TIU itself via the Aux. Power port.. However, you'll still need power going into each Channel that you want to use to run trains.

The Aux. Power port only powers the TIU itself, it doesn't provide track/channel power.

Barry I understand this we are running 5 loops with 5 Bricks

TIU 1

Variable 1 input Lionel powerhouse 180 Watt brick with PH to Banana Plug Adapter

Fixed 1 Input Lionel Powerhouse 180 watt Brick with PH to Banana Plug Adapter

Fixed 2 Input Lionel Powerhouse 135 Watt Brick with PH to Banana Plug Adapter

Variable 2 Input Lionel Powerhouse 135 Watt Brick with PH to Banana Plug Adapter

TIU 2

Fixed 1 Input MTH Z-1000 Watt Brick with Barrel Jack Adapter

I only need two bricks to power the TIU's through the Auxillary Power Port

As I stated in the original post When i powered the TIU's through the Fixed 1 Ports I got nothing out of the Variable inputs and spotty reaction through the fixed Channels

I unplugged TIU 2 to take the variables out of the equation I still go no real response out of Tiu 1 I then plugged the Z-1000 into the Auxillary port on TIU 1 and All channels responded as they were supposed to to check again I unplugged the Brick from the Aux input and Tiu started acting up again.  Again I plugged the Brick back into Tiu 1 and again it started acting right again.  Signal strength on all channels is a 10 across the board with the Brick attached to the Tiu

Bobbie,

The way things work regarding power to the TIU is best explained as follows on page 92-93 of The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition:

Part V - Advanced Features and Functions

Advantages to Powering the TIU Through the Aux. Power Port

Essentially, the TIU is a computer. This means that each time its power is interrupted, it must reboot when power is restored. This reboot process takes a small amount of time, during which commands sent by the DCS Remote cannot be received by the TIU. If the TIU is powered by power present on Fixed Channel #1, turning off this power, even momentarily, will cause the TIU channels to behave in different ways. Although commands from the DCS Remote sent on any channel cannot be received while the TIU is turned off, the various TIU channels will react as follows: 

• Trains connected to Fixed Channel #1 will simply stop running 

• Variable channels will shut down and not pass power to the tracks. Trains running on tracks controlled by these channels will also simply stop running 

• Power will continue to pass through Fixed Channel #2. Trains running on tracks connected to this channel will continue to operate. PS2 (or TMCC) engines will continue doing whatever they were last doing when power to the TIU was turned off. However, the operator will have no control of these trains from the DCS Remote.

If the TIU is powered through Fixed Channel #1 rather than the Aux. Power port and there's a derailment on the tracks connected to Fixed Channel #1, the following will occur: 

• The TIU will immediately stop receiving commands from the DCS Remote 

• All trains running on tracks connected to Fixed Channel #1 or to a Variable Channel will come to a halt when the TIU's internal fuse or an external fuse for Fixed Channel #1 blows, or the transformer or other external circuit breaker trips 

• All trains running on tracks connected to Fixed Channel #2 will continue to operate, however, they will not respond to commands from the DCS Remote.

The above scenario will continue with some trains stopped and others unable to be controlled until the power to the TIU is restored or all track power is shut down. Further, the E-Stop button on the DCS Remote will not be useable. Not a good situation!

TIU Aux. Power Sources

There are several sources of power that may be used to power the TIU through the Aux. Power port. In general, any AC or DC power supply that provides 1.5 amp of power at a voltage between 12 and 22 volts and has a suitable connector that fits the Aux. Power port will work.

One source of power for the TIU's Aux. Power port is any one of the smaller MTH transformers, such as the Z500, Z750 or Z1000. Their barrel plugs exactly fit the TIU's Aux. Power port. If using one of these transformers, it is important not to use the Z-Controller that may be included with the transformer.

Another source of power for the TIU's Aux. Power port is the Radio Shack "#273-331 "Enercell™ Switchable 18/24VAC 1 AMP Power Adapter with #273-344 Enercell™ Adaptaplug™ M. It should be used on the 18 volt setting.

A third source of power for the TIU's Aux. Power port is the 14 volt output of an MTH Z4000 transformer using an appropriate barrel connector. It should be noted that if the Z4000's 14 volt output is used, it should be used solely for this purpose and not used to power any other device.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

I've never seen any issue powering the TIU from fixed one as far as the other channels not working properly.  You will lose all channels if the power supply feeding channel 1 trips or is turned off.  If the power supply feeding channel 1 is stable and the other channels act up with good power to the inputs, my take would be there's an issue with the TIU.

Gentlemen,

   I use the Raido Shack 273-311 Enercell to power my DCS TIU, it works great.  IMO it is the best way to power the TIU, leaving all other channels open for train running operations.  Have Raido Shack Ship you one, over night if needed.

PCRR/Dave

John,

You will lose all channels if the power supply feeding channel 1 trips or is turned off.  If the power supply feeding channel 1 is stable and the other channels act up with good power to the inputs, my take would

That's the point of this discussion.

Barry, it appears from the first post that there is nothing affecting the power input to fixed #1, which is why I wondered about the other channels having a problem.  If the power is good on that input, the other channels should work fine.

John,

Read what he posted. First this...

As I stated in the original post When i powered the TIU's through the Fixed 1 Ports I got nothing out of the Variable inputs and spotty reaction through the fixed Channels

and then this...

I then plugged the Z-1000 into the Auxillary port on TIU 1 and All channels responded as they were supposed to 

What does that tell you? It tells you that the TIU wasn't getting power for itself until he plugged in the Z-brick.

This could be caused by a stuck microswitch at the Aux. Power port (been there, seen that) or it could be a case of operator/observer error, since not everyone follows the scientific method rigorously.

Regardless, he now knows how it should  work and that he can make it work using the Aux. Power port. 

Barry, the question would be why didn't it work powering it from Fixed #1.  That's the point I was getting at.

As I said...

This could be caused by a stuck microswitch at the Aux. Power port (been there, seen that) or it could be a case of operator/observer error, since not everyone follows the scientific method rigorously.

Thank you one and all for your responses

I have located a pair of Z-500 Bricks from set breakups at Pats trains to which I ordered last night. I appreciate all the info

To me, the "advantages" of powering thru the AUX port are not clearly explained (the "what ifs" when powering thru Fixed Channel #1 are).  They may be implied, but that's when misinterpretation kicks in.

What IS the advantage of powering thru AUX port if:

1) Power to Fixed Channel #1 is turned/cut off

2) Power going to Fixed Chan #1 and jumpered to Fixed Chan #2 is turned/cut off?

3) Fixed Chan #1 dies internally (what happens to trains on the other channels)?

In other words, we've said what it won't do, but we haven't clearly stated what it will do.

Bob,

If you are powering from the aux port, all the channels are independent as far as powering the internal circuitry.  So, if power is removed from fixed #1, the remaining channels will not be affected, assuming their input power is still being supplied. 

If you are powering from fixed #1, removing that power will kill all the tracks on all outputs.

Bob,

The answers are:

Yes

Yes

No

The remote cannot control any channels.

Using the Aux. Power port avoids all of the bad things described.

The Fort Pitt Highrailers use the power supply listed above.

 Radio Shack "#273-331 "Enercell™ Switchable 18/24VAC 1 AMP Power Adapter with #273-344 Enercell™ Adaptaplug™ M. It should be used on the 18 volt setting. We  also switch Variable #1 and Variable #2 to fixed, which allows for (4) Fixed voltage tracks from one TIU.  Each track is powered by one handle of a Z4000.  Usually problems or lack of power on one of the (four) tracks doesn't effect the other three. Loss of power on Fixed #1 meant loss of DCS signal on all (4) tracks.

Mike, I don't see that happening with an aux supply.  I can remove power from Fixed #1 and the other channels don't notice, operation normal.

Thanks guys.

So, if I use the AUX port, do I still connect track power to Fixed #1 input?  Isn't that putting two input sources into the TIU or does using the AUX port somehow disconnect/bypass something internally from Fixed Input #1 to run the TIU internals?

If I elect to use only Fixed #2 (not #1) and the AUX port, do I run the input PS directly to Fixed #2 input?

Mike, my Variable channels have not worked in Fixed mode for a couple of years, probably need to get George (GGG) to take a look being he's close by.

  I have a 12vdc 1.5 amp wallwart I was thinking about using.  I use to enjoy going to Radio Shack but in the last decade or so they've gotten away from being a knowledgeable electronics store to just another shop with an unknowing/uncaring salesperson.  If I can walk into their store and grab the power supply without having to deal with anyone until I pay that's fine (I've always disliked it when they asked for my phone number, especially when I pay cash).

Right now I have my PH180 going into Fixed #1 input and all is well (other than can't use the 2 VAR channels in fixed mode).  Whenever I get a derailment/short the entire system shuts down.

I've used a DC supply to run the TIU, seems to work fine.  I use an old laptop supply that's 16.5 volts and can put out 3 amps, more than enough to power the logic.

I power from the 14v fixed output of the Z4000.  That way as soon as the Z4000 is powered up, the TIU is powered up.

Ron

Bob,

The TIU's Aux. Power port only provides power for the TIU. Fixed #1 provides power for the tracks. Only if there's nothing plugged into the Aux. Power port, then the TIU will take a little power from Fixed #1 for inself.

Thanks again folks!  Now I understand a bit better.

Ron, powering from the Z4000 does create the risk that if the 14-volt outlet breaker opens, you would lose control of the trains.  Also, if you have other transformers feeding some TIU channels, shutting down the Z4000 would leave you without control.

Terry, I don't comprehend your question, but when the TIU is powered through the AUX port, you can use any one or more of the TIU channels for separate tracks, and it doesn't matter which are or are not in use.

Terry,

Press Menu followed selecting System and then DCS Setup. Then, follow these instructions from page 45 of The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition:

• If there is more than one TIU in the DCS Remote, a list of all TIUs in the DCS Remote is displayed

• If only one TIU is in the DCS Remote, this screen is not displayed and this step is skipped

• If there is more than one TIU present in the DCS Remote, use the thumbwheel to scroll to the TIU that has one or more of the channels whose behavior is to be modified. Press the thumbwheel to select the TIU

• A list of all channels of the selected TIU is displayed along with 5 soft keys

• To turn the DCS signal on or off on any one channel, or to toggle a variable channel between variable and fixed operation, select the channel by scrolling to it using the thumbwheel

• To turn the DCS Signal on or off on that channel, press soft key S1 (ON) to turn the DCS signal on or S2 (OFF) to turn it off

• To toggle a selected Variable Channel between Fixed and Variable modes of operation, press soft key S5 (FXD)

• A message is displayed indicating that the channel is set to either Fixed or Variable mode

• To turn the DCS signal on or off for all channels of the selected TIU, press soft key S3 (AON) to turn the DCS signal on or press soft key S4 (AOF) to turn the DCS signal off

• When a TIU Variable Channel is set to Fixed mode, it will remain in Fixed mode until one of the following occurs: 

The Variable Channel is toggled back to Variable mode using Soft Key S5 

(FXD). It will remain in Variable mode until it is once again toggled to Fixed 

mode using Soft Key S5 (FXD) 

The TR button is pressed, the track associated with the Variable Channel is 

selected and the thumbwheel is turned 1 click. The channel will be placed in 

Variable mode until it is once again toggled to Fixed mode using Soft Key S5 

(FXD) or until the DCS Remote is powered off and then back on again

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Thank you, Barry

Noted above for both Variable Channels to Fixed. The Fort Pitt HighRailers have used (2) TIU's both in Super mode.  Note the Selection of TIU1 (4th choice).

(4) fixed voltage DCS channels, one TIU.

Menu /System /DCS Set Up /TIU1 /Variable 1 /Soft key FXD.

Menu /System /DCS Set Up /TIU1 /Variable 2 /Soft key FXD.

Any wall wart that produces 12-18 volts, AC or DC, and not less than about 1 amp capacity, will work.  ON my layout I have 2 of the Radio Shack units.  On my workbench, I have an old telephone power supply.

The VARIABLE channels are intended to provide a means of controlling voltage fed to tracks by means of the remote, for running conventional locos.  If you don't run conventional, they might as well be set to fixed mode.

Terry,

And I have a paper clip on chapter, 6, ( of the manual)

If that "manual" isn't The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition, it really should be!