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I am now the proud owner of a nice 1666e prewar loco, which I recently acquired.  It looks nice, runs reasonably well, but the pulling power is anemic for something so heavy.  Obviously one of the issues is the lack of a traction tire.  Does anyone know if replacement wheels were made with a traction tire groove?  ( I would replace the rear driver on both sides for increased pulling power.)  Any other tricks for improving performance of this machine without just adding weight in every spare space?

Also, the whistle activates but sounds awful.  I am looking for service advise of the whistle tender. The tender is marked as a 2689.

Last question at the moment - What is the little paddle under the tender trailing truck for?  It looks like it works with some type of five rail track system but I don't know anything about it.

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(really hoping I can get that stain of the side of the boiler.  Its the only serious cosmetic blemish on the loco.)

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Note - this is as received, I have started cleaning the contacts and wheels.  I would also love to switch to roller pickups if available.

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Original Post

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What are you calling a paddle?
I see a roller pickup for the whistle mechanism and a slide shoe to operate the couple.
Both mounted to the rear truck.

I am not aware of any replacement wheels with traction tires for that engine, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Unless its a trick of the lighting or my eyesight, it looks to me like you have a grey locomotive.
Before you modify it, be aware that grey locomotives are considered more desirable than black ones. I could not give you a current dollar values, you'd have to look at completed (sold) examples on EBay.
The engine is certainly yours to do with as you please.

You can find material on servicing whistle units by searching this chat board.
Another good resource is the Lionel service manual. Even though the manual was written for postwar, the mechanism in your tender is very similar.
Here is a link to an online copy provided by Olsens. (I cannot go deeper into the manual right now. It must be undergoing some sort of maintenance).





It is gray, and it came from 'bay.  I guess what I am calling a paddle is the slide shoe.  If you are telling me it is used operate the rear coupler that's more than I knew about a few minutes ago.  Thank you for the link - I will check it later today.

As to value, the value to me is in the engine working the way I want it to.  a beautiful engine that can barely pull it's own weight around the track is supremely annoying to me.  And while I love the look of tinplate I don't care for all the sparks for the sliding power pickups. 

As to value, the value to me is in the engine working the way I want it to.  a beautiful engine that can barely pull it's own weight around the track is supremely annoying to me.  And while I love the look of tinplate I don't care for all the sparks for the sliding power pickups. 

There is another thread going on replacing sliding  power shoes with roller ones.

Regardless, as a runner, you may want to consider replacing the entire tender trucks with something more modern, either postwar or newer.

You will have to straighten a bunch of tabs to get the tender body open to service the whistle mechanism.
When I service one of those sheet metal tenders, I do not bend the tabs back. (Do this a few times, and they will break off.) I just twist them slightly. Just enough to hold the body on.

Enjoy your new train!

 

In my experience, there isn't a need to convert from shoes to rollers. The shoes work just fine. Your's have wear, and so I would replace them with the specified shoes (Lionel part 1661-33)

Upgrading to a traction tire is going to be difficult as you need to have a grooved wheel. I am not sure any compatible grooved wheels were made, and if so, quartering and pressing just right can be a trick let alone getting it to match.

It does appear that your drivers are somewhat dirty - make sure to clean them. I would use goo gone and a flat lade screw driver.

For upgrading your tender trucks on your somewhat more desirable  gunmetal gray 1666e to postwar versions as suggested earlier, I would pass on that - instead, I would look for a postwar 6654W tender - it would likely be more cost effective, especially if you have to obtain whistle parts for your existing tender not to mention the risk of damaging the tabs by opening it up.

As for servicing your whistle, everything you need to know should be here in the Lionel Service Documents: http://www.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=708 (The page has been under maintenance frequently today).

Getting back to the traction issues, you should be able to pull 6-8 cars with that locomotive. Make sure the axles of all your rolling stock are lubricated with Labelle 107 or similar.

Last edited by bmoran4

Unless mistaken, the typical prewar 1666 sets came with 4 tin plate cars, tin plate tender and a locomotive. The locomotive was not designed to pull the number of cars a modern locomotive can. BMORAN4 is absolutely correct about the locomotive being able to pull 6 - 8 cars, including tender IF the track is clean, the locomotive and car wheels are clean and the axles are properly lubricated. 

I personally consider the 1666 to be one of Lionel's smoothest running locomotives and routinely run my original 1940 set with one or two extra tin plate cars. If you wish to run a long line of cars, the 1666 is not the locomotive for it.

As indicated by C. W. Burfle, I also am not aware of any traction tire retrofit and have never read of any attempt to perform such a retrofit. As the owner/operator of the 1666, you can certainly attempt any modification you wish, but your Gunmetal Grey locomotive and tender are classics, in my opinion, and look to be in great condition for being about 80 years old.

swede

Last edited by rrswede

These motor were built such that speed is enhanced, not power.  Lubricate the motor's commutator shaft at the bearing surfaces to get the most torque to the wheels.  As posted above, lube the wheels of the cars for best results.

Its a fairly common tender, and the decal/sicker adhesive will likely leave a mark when removed (and there is no good way to do that), so replacing it won't be too hard.  If it were me, I would acquire a postwar tender or trucks if you plan to pull postwar cars.

I wouldn't add tires, and I wouldn't replace the sliding shoes either, unless they are snagging on something.  New reproduction shoes are of unknown quality and the form factor may not be an exact match for the originals.  Until a groove is worn in them, they may raise the driving wheels off the track and further reduce traction.

If you're having a center rail contact problem, I would wire both loco shoes together internally  if possible, AND create a tether to the pickup roller on the tender.  This will reduce chances of losing power over switches & crossovers.

The prewar 1666 is a light-duty engine, but a very smooth runner, built with the best quality materials while all of the chassis tooling, hobbing dies, etc., were still fresh.  Congrats and enjoy it!

OK, just went down and put my Prewar 1666E on the track, with three 607 Pullmans, and the 608 Observation. These are kinda heavy, but nothing drastic. Pulled them with ease. Added my 608 Stockcar, my 809 Dump, and still pulled easily. Added two 653 Hoppers, and still pulled all eight, but not as fast. If it were eight plain 600/1600 freight cars, I could probably have pulled a few more.  Make sure the pilot and trailing trucks aren't lifting the drivers. I have two 1666s,1684,2026, and 1662 originally had slide shoes, and have no problem with any of them

It sounds like the whistle needs some oil. If you take the tender shell off, don't re bend the tabs on the body, rather just twist a few of them. This will allow several times to pull the shell off. 

Steamer posted:

OK, just went down and put my Prewar 1666E on the track, with three 607 Pullmans, and the 608 Observation. These are kinda heavy, but nothing drastic. Pulled them with ease. Added my 608 Stockcar, my 809 Dump, and still pulled easily. Added two 653 Hoppers, and still pulled all eight, but not as fast. If it were eight plain 600/1600 freight cars, I could probably have pulled a few more.  Make sure the pilot and trailing trucks aren't lifting the drivers. I have two 1666s,1684,2026, and 1662 originally had slide shoes, and have no problem with any of them

It sounds like the whistle needs some oil. If you take the tender shell off, don't re bend the tabs on the body, rather just twist a few of them. This will allow several times to pull the shell off. 

Well I tried to run this one with about a half dozen 600 series freight cars and it kept slipping terribly on o-42 and wider curves.  I am going to try again after I finish cleaning the drivers.  

I appreciate everyone's input.  I am still going to look to convert to roller pickups for the 1666e as I simply don't care for slide shoes.  I haven't had the shell off yet to look at the brushes either. 

I tried cleaning the tape of the tender and it's just not gonna happen without taking off paint, so I guess the tender will be a repaint by the time I'm done.  There's a little rust on the top corner anyway.  

Unfortunately this will be information gathering only for about a month due to extended projects at work.  If I do make any progress I will let folks now.

ADCX Rob posted:
bmoran4 posted:
Upgrading to a traction tire is going to be difficult as you need to have a grooved wheel...

Not necessarily. For a clandestine modification, a 242-206 tire stretched over each of the two rear drivers, and adhered with a film of CA, will make the 1666 a formidable puller. The motor is quite capable.

I add traction tires on occasion to drivers with no groove like Rob suggests however I user Walthers goo. As long as the wheel is clean, either will work.

Steve

jhz563 posted:

 

As to value, the value to me is in the engine working the way I want it to.  a beautiful engine that can barely pull it's own weight around the track is supremely annoying to me.  And while I love the look of tinplate I don't care for all the sparks for the sliding power pickups. 

mine doesn't spark at all....if your is try cleaning the slide shoes.

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

I add traction tires on occasion to drivers with no groove like Rob suggests however I user Walthers goo. As long as the wheel is clean, either will work.

Goo is fine... oddly enough, CA is often less messy as it has really lousy shear strength and chips off very easily.

Steamer posted:

mine doesn't spark at all....if your is try cleaning the slide shoes.

 And the track.

I always noticed the slide shoes on these steamers and the handcars did a pretty good job of cleaning the center rail.

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