Problem with New Premier PS3 Diesel

Again, no one using DCS operates 022. Been operating since 1963 and really never heard  022. First mistake is adding oil to anything. Its really not necessary with todays trains.

Stick with conventional toy operation or convert to REAL O would be my suggestion.

SIRT, thanks so much for your input on this problem.

Another Forum friend told me the same thing about oil: that it's not necessary to put oil on MTH and other similar modern locomotives, but I still did it because that is what the Quick Start Manual said to do.

Do you think the problem might go away if I wiped off the oil and ran the locomotive using DCS again?

Concerning the O22 switches, I have 5 other MTH proto 3 diesels and 1 MTH proto 3 steamer that run through my 022 switches using DCS just fine, so I don't think the 022 switches are the problem. Arnold

I just used Q Tips to remove as much of the light oil and gear oil that I could. Then, I started it up on DCS.

It still sparked as the engine made a right turn as it went through the 022 switch and continued to spark after it went through the switch. Of course, I shut off the transformer power when that happened.

Also the sparks were between the top of the front truck and the chassis.

I believe something is causing a short, which causes the sparks when the engine makes a right turn.

Others opinions are most welcome.

By the way, it's a beautiful locomotive: Pemier PS3 Maryland Midland GP9 Diesel, MTH Product # 20211071.

Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I just used Q Tips to remove as much of the light oil and gear oil that I could. Then, I started it up on DCS.

It still sparked as the engine made a right turn as it went through the 022 switch and continued to spark after it went through the switch. Of course, I shut off the transformer power when that happened.

Also the sparks were between the top of the front truck and the chassis.

I believe something is causing a short, which causes the sparks when the engine makes a right turn.

Others opinions are most welcome.

By the way, it's a beautiful locomotive: Pemier PS3 Maryland Midland GP9 Diesel, MTH Product # 20211071.

Arnold

Check all your wheels side to side movement.   See if anything on the truck, like a brake shoe rubs.  I had this happen and train runs normally.  Looks scary.  I’ve never seen a 22 switch.  The travel for the turning truck has got to be extreme.  FWIW,  I oil all my rollers with Teflon 3 in 1.  5 years no problem.

O22 is Lionel's designated name for their O31 path switches...

They aren't 22" diameter track ala O31 O42 O72 etc

Tom

I must have 50 to 75 locomotives, about half are modern and the other half Postwar, and I've never had this sparking happen before.

The minimum radius curve for this particular locomotive is 031.

Again, I greatly appreciate all of your input on this problem. We have a terrific brain trust on this Forum. I also find it fun trying to solve problems like this together.

If you have sparks between the chassis and the truck, what you have is the pickup roller wire shorting to the frame where it passes through.  Usually that’s a cut in the insulation or it’s pinched and the truck movement is pulling it.  You may or may not be able to see it, but continued operation risks shorting the boards out.  
Not a hard fix, but requires attention.

I think Boilermaker1 may have it diagnosed.  I had this exact problem with an MTH locomotive once and the cause was a cut in a pick-up wire on the front truck that would short against the frame only in the turns on my layout.  It ran fine on the straightaways.

Thank you Boilermaker1 and Joe.

Is it possible that If I take off the shell, I can stop a wire from being pinched and/or put a small piece of electrical tape over a cut in the insulation of a wire?

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Is it possible that If I take off the shell, I can stop a wire from being pinched and/or put a small piece of electrical tape over a cut in the insulation of a wire?

It is a fairly common problem.  Either a red power wire is rubbing on the frame, the eyelet is positioned so it is shorting on the ground wire/eyelet or the heat shrink has worn through and touching the adjacent ground screw, truck block or frame.  A good visual inspection of all four pickup wires is suggested.  Usually loosening the center pickup wire screw and repositioning it solves the problem.

@Jon G posted:

It is a fairly common problem.  Either a red power wire is rubbing on the frame, the eyelet is positioned so it is shorting on the ground wire/eyelet or the heat shrink has worn through and touching the adjacent ground screw, truck block or frame.  A good visual inspection of all four pickup wires is suggested.  Usually loosening the center pickup wire screw and repositioning it solves the problem.

Thanks Jon

With a little help from my FORUM friends!

Could that be the beginning of a song? LOL

The good news: it's fixed, no more sparking.

I will give a detailed explanation to help those Firum hobbyists who are reluctant to open up their modern engines to make minor repairs.

I removed the screws that hold the shell in place. (It helps to have a magnetized Phillips screw driver that perfectly fits the MTH screws. I got one from Lowes about 1 year ago. It's a long stemmed Sears Craftsman Phillip's screw driver.)

I did not take the shell off completely because I did not want to dislodge the wires that connect to the LED headlights in the front and rear of the engine.

Also, to loosen the shell and get access to the inside of the engine, I had to ever so gently, but firmly, pry the shell off the chassis.

At first, it looked like an impossible task for me to fix it because there are so many wires. Then, I read Jon's above post, and gently moved some of the wires a little.  I think there was one wire (can't remember the color) that was slightly sticking to the metal chassis. I gently moved it so it stopped sticking. Then, I saw a red wire that looked like it was in the wrong position (it was between 2 parts (maybe in the tach meter/regulator), and I gently moved that wire without detaching it  so it was no longer in that position.

I then gently, but firmly, put the shell back on (mindful of the importance of not pinching any wires) without putting the screws back on.

Then, I ran the engine using DCS for several laps on the inside main loop of my layout, and it ran fine, no sparking.

I then shut down the engine, took it off the track, and screwed the shell back on, ran the engine for another lap, and it ran fine.

Ladies and gentlemen (mostly gentlemen), it is now my pleasure to introduce to you the fixed MTH Premier PS3 Maryland Midland GP9 Diesel:

Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

With a little help from my FORUM friends!

Could that be the beginning of a song? LOL

The good news: it's fixed, no more sparking.

I will give a detailed explanation to help those Firum hobbyists who are reluctant to open up their modern engines to make minor repairs.

I removed the screws that hold the shell in place. (It helps to have a magnetized Phillips screw driver that perfectly fits the MTH screws. I got one from Lowes about 1 year ago. It's a long stemmed Sears Craftsman Phillip's screw driver.)

I did not take the shell off completely because I did not want to dislodge the wires that connect to the LED headlights in the front and rear of the engine.

Also, to loosen the shell and get access to the inside of the engine, I had to ever so gently, but firmly, pry the shell off the chassis.

At first, it looked like an impossible task for me to fix it because there are so many wires. Then, I read Jon's above post, and gently moved some of the wires a little.  I think there was one wire (can't remember the color) that was slightly sticking to the metal chassis. I gently moved it so it stopped sticking. Then, I saw a red wire that looked like it was in the wrong position (it was between 2 parts (maybe in the tach meter/regulator), and I gently moved that wire without detaching it  so it was no longer in that position.

I then gently, but firmly, put the shell back on (mindful of the importance of not pinching any wires) without putting the screws back on.

Then, I ran the engine using DCS for several laps on the inside main loop of my layout, and it ran fine, no sparking.

I then shut down the engine, took it off the track, and screwed the shell back on, ran the engine for another lap, and it ran fine.

Ladies and gentlemen (mostly gentlemen), it is now my pleasure to introduce to you the fixed MTH Premier PS3 Maryland Midland GP9 Diesel:

Arnold

Arnold,

That's the magic of the forum.  The people here are the knowledge base for all RR.  I could not image having to call the factory for every issue.  I think some of us would be more active in other hobbies.  To me the forum is the union or center of my train life for resources.  It gets easier after you open your first engine.

Arnold - I wish all of life's problems had such easy solutions!

That's a great looking locomotive - and I love GP9's! I've never heard of that railroad, but that's a sharp paint scheme!

Great work, Arnold!  I, too, have always been reluctant to open up these modern marvels. When I recently replaced about a dozen batteries with BCRs/BCR2s, I got some comfort level in doing so.  It does get easier, although I remain a little nervous every time!

Glad you have it working, Arnold, but I would like to recommend one thing. If that wire was "sticking", it probably was partially welded to the metal from the sparking and would have a nick with bare wires. I would find it again and  either use tape or liquid tape to cover it up. Murphy's Law is not a one and done thing.

OGR Forum: great advice, great fun, great comraderie, great people.

I struggle with the repairs, so the advice I can get here is so helpful.

It is exhilerating to be able to fix something.

Learn something new every time I log on!

@Jon G posted:

It is a fairly common problem.  Either a red power wire is rubbing on the frame, the eyelet is positioned so it is shorting on the ground wire/eyelet or the heat shrink has worn through and touching the adjacent ground screw, truck block or frame.  A good visual inspection of all four pickup wires is suggested.  Usually loosening the center pickup wire screw and repositioning it solves the problem.

Jon, you provided the above advice back on Feb. 21st relating to an MTH Proto 3 Maryland Midland diesel I recently purchased, which had sparking between the truck and chassis. Repositioning and taping a wire fixed it.

Today, I had similar sparking between the trucks and chassis of another MTH diesel: a Proto 2 NY Central GP9. I looked for tiny bare spots on wires with broken insulation, and again put small pieces of electrical tape on what I thought might be broken insulation, but the sparking persisted.

Then, I re-read your above post, and did what you recommended: I loosened one of the center pick up wires screws, wiggled it a tiny bit, and tightened the screw. Again, the sparking persisted, but on top of the other truck. When I closely examined that truck, I clearly saw some bare wire near the pick up screw. I carefully covered the bare wire with electrical tape, applied a little rubber cement to make sure the tape would remain in place, loosened, wiggled and tightened the center pick up screw, and it worked! No sparking!

Thank you again, Jon. Your advice and that of our other Forum friends on this thread have greatly helped me fix two of my favorite MTH diesels. Arnold