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It's my opinion, but doesn't the world have enough NYC Hudson's and Mohawks?  Why won't our well supported Professional Modelers do  NYC H-10's series, as well as, C&O K-2/3a' with both tenders Vandy and the big rectangular tender as used on their K4's.

I'm well aware of having posted about my concerns before, but the 1st was probably 3 years ago, and then there were several others that said that they would make a purchase if offered, as long as, it was affordable....

If one of you Professional Models would read this and decided to run it up the flag pole, also add, a non-streamlined C&O Hudson called the L-2a, as it was not unlike their Big Makido's, and massive over the top compared to the others of their day.......

Another you could think about, would be the Southern Railroad's PS-4 that Southern Streamlined one of. Weaver did a one time run.  If you can find one for sale now,  regardless of condition, you will pay mega bucks to purchase it....

  

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Well now that Lionel is entertaining a brass hybrid production model, you may get your wish sooner than you think.

I am not a Santa Fe modeler but to support their business model and since this new model had a jaw dropping appearance, I purchased one for its shear awe factor. Just had to have one....

 

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"It's my opinion, but doesn't the world have enough NYC Hudson's and Mohawks?"

We're virtually drowning in them. They sell.  And PRR-anything.

"  Why won't our well supported Professional Modelers do  NYC H-10's series, as well as, C&O K-2/3a' with both tenders Vandy and the big rectangular tender as used on their K4's."

Because not enough people are willing to commit, e.g. they are not perceived to sell well enough to ensure a profit (if not a loss). Sunset/3rd Rail has tried a couple of these with insufficient takers.
I have my own "really, really want" locos, but I'm a voice crying out in the wilderness.

"....there were several others that said that they would make a purchase if offered, as long as, it was affordable...."

Well, there's the rub. What is "affordable?" The days of sub-$1000 steam locos are over. In fact, we're looking at locos approaching $2000. How many bells and whistles do you expect, and at what price?

Last edited by Rich Melvin
Brandy posted:

It's my opinion, but doesn't the world have enough NYC Hudson's and Mohawks? 

Add PRR turbine, S1, S2, K4 plus numerous others from popular roads and your post would be just like dozens of others posted over the years.  All have the same answer; will the unique scale engine YOU want sell well enough to justify the cost to design, develop tooling, produce, market and ship to make it worthwhile for the company.  The answer has been usually no, and in today's economic environment it is probably definitely no. 

I don't like it either, but I have yet to hear a viable solution.  I hope Lionel's hybrid does well.

 

Last edited by CAPPilot

Heh, heh..you are preaching to the choir, but l guess the choir ain't big enough.  I remain mystified as to who keeps buying the deja' vu all over again 1948 catalog stuff?  If this hobby  is only made up of doddering old coots like myself, as some maintain, we all had our shot at the Pleistocene stuff when it was new, and there is plenty of that on the net, if anybody missed out.   Of course, each and every out of tune choir member is singing? a different tune and wants something different. Since there is no catnip in the catalogs, l will just keep screeching on the back fence!

colorado hirailer posted:

Heh, heh..you are preaching to the choir, but l guess the choir ain't big enough.  I remain mystified as to who keeps buying the deja' vu all over again 1948 catalog stuff?  If this hobby  is only made up of doddering old coots like myself, as some maintain, we all had our shot at the Pleistocene stuff when it was new, and there is plenty of that on the net, if anybody missed out.   Of course, each and every out of tune choir member is singing? a different tune and wants something different. Since there is no catnip in the catalogs, l will just keep screeching on the back fence!

Another one of the Old Louisville Kentucky guys, and that's a good thing. Maybe we can be the cheer leaders to get this done......I got several emails as well as some putting in their positive 2 cents worth, and even got one from Old Hot Water, from my last posting........JMO.............I've learned over many, many years of working Union Jobs, that the squeaking wheel gets the grease.................................Brandy!

J Daddy posted:

Well now that Lionel is entertaining a brass hybrid production model, you may get your wish sooner than you think.

I am not a Santa Fe modeler but to support their business model and since this new model had a jaw dropping appearance, I purchased one for its shear awe factor. Just had to have one....

 

20170426_160459

20170426_163411

 

 

 

JDaddy you are right, and this model is over the top, and looks like something that 3RD Rail would have produced....Just wondedring with so much of Engineering that has been produced/reproduced using the electronics of today, how hard would this be....?

The answer to this problem is still down the road a bit... 3D printing. Most people associate the process with certain types of plastic because that is the most widely used material to date. The Additive manufacturing process can also be done using metals though. Aircraft grade aluminum and titanium are two examples. I watched a video recently where a high performance automobile was 3D printed. The result was a structure that was stronger and much lighter than an equivalent 'standard' car. But the BIG point that was made in the video was that the high cost of tooling and the time associated with that process were eliminated. He mentioned an example where an automotive company could save 400 million dollars on the development of a new vehicle using this process.

Eventually this will trickle down to our hobby. Wouldn't it be amazing to choose your model from a catalog that contained every locomotive every made, enter a quantity, pay, and have it sent directly to your door? I think we will get there. 

rex desilets posted:

 

Well, there's the rub. What is "affordable?" The days of sub-$1000 steam locos are over. In fact, we're looking at locos approaching $2000. How many bells and whistles do you expect, and at what price?

The rub indeed! I was going to ask about 'affordable' as well. That certainly means many different things to many different people.

"....but doesn't the world have enough NYC Hudson's and Mohawks?" 

Well, no...but maybe. These 2 locos - plus the Niagara, are my favorite engines. But even I could accept a hiatus for the following. Actually, I do not plan to ever buy any more of any of them - I have plenty - unless an L-1 or L-2c/d are offered. So - bring on something else while we're still alive.

I, among others, have long asked for a NYC K-5 4-6-2 (the Hudson's predecessor, if anything), a NYC H-10 Mike,  a C&O L2 and L2a (yes!) Hudson, a NYC 2-6-6-2 Mallet (they had a number of these almost unknown locos - over 50, I believe; not a USRA loco - smaller), a NYC 0-8-8-0 hump switcher (they had 14 or so) that was occasionally used on heavy local runs...also nearly unknown.

...an L&N M-1 class 2-8-4, the most modern Berk ever built...the NC&StL Dixies (4-8-4's) - also already done in HO, but not O. I'll take 2.

The K-5 4-6-2 has shown up in 2-rail O (Sunset; thy also did the K-5 as the Mercury Pacific in 3RO; I have it), as has the H-10. The L&N Berk can be had in 2-rail. I've seen the C&O L2a in HO.

========

Lionel's mixed-media effort with the ATSF Mike is encouraging. That method is not new, though I know many think it was. There are several locos with running gear that can be used/reasonably modified to accurately run under a different boiler.

FWIW, the Reading T-1 4-8-4's running gear is about a 90% match for the NC&StL 4-8-4....but I'm sure I'll have to build it myself. I already have the Lionel (early) T-1 sacrificial lamb.  But I'd rather pay Lionel for a version. 

Last edited by D500

This is from Rex above:

Because not enough people are willing to commit, e.g. they are not perceived to sell well enough to ensure a profit (if not a loss). Sunset/3rd Rail has tried a couple of these with insufficient takers.

Read that carefully.  You too can have a D&H water tube Consolidation if you get enough of your friends to pre-order, with deposits.

I wanted a 2-6-6-2 "Back-up Malley".  So I built one.  

bob2 posted:

This is from Rex above:

Because not enough people are willing to commit, e.g. they are not perceived to sell well enough to ensure a profit (if not a loss). Sunset/3rd Rail has tried a couple of these with insufficient takers.

Read that carefully.  You too can have a D&H water tube Consolidation if you get enough of your friends to pre-order, with deposits.

When dealing with Sunset/3rd Rail, deposits are NOT required, nor asked for.

I wanted a 2-6-6-2 "Back-up Malley".  So I built one.  

 

I disagree about the NYC models I mean we are only talking about model VERSIONS never imported before not reruns or dupes. The early Mohawks of the L-2c and d class were never imported. The L-2a was and also made by Lionel but with several different details making them very different looking. These 2 combined with the feed water heater being the only real difference. You complain about PRR and NYC well they were only the 2 largest railroads in the world and deserve to be represented in the hobby world. Take a look before you criticize.

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  • NYC L-2c #2800 new at Alco circa 1929 001
Interesting, coming from the S world, I hadn't seen any of this (brass composite)--but I notice they still use that hokey "business car platform" stage, and they're still dropping a product on "table" to talk about it, In today's multi-media world, this is REALLY "Old School" and kind of RR nerdy. But what I really find interesting is the desire for new engines--Heck, over in S we'd kill for some of your selection. S NEEDS a Daylight 4-8-4, also a N&W J 4-8-4. An 0-8-0 switch engine would be nice, and my two favorites: a Cab-Forward and an SP Mogul (SP1727 to be exact!). We can't even seem to convince them to try a BTO version to see if they'd get enough orders!
Add PRR turbine, S1, S2, K4 plus numerous others from popular roads and your post would be just like dozens of others
posted over the years. All have the same answer; will the unique scale engine YOU want sell well enough to justify
the cost to design, develop tooling, produce, market and ship to make it worthwhile for the company.

 

YES! Esp if these locos are prototypical PRR! I would love to purchase the following PRR steam locos if ever produced:

  • PRR E1... also a RDG and LIRR Locomotive too!

  • PRR E2

  • PRR E3

  • PRRE3sd

  • PRR F3 Hi rail

  • PRR J28

  • PRR K2,K2sa,

  • PRR K3

  • PRR K5

  • PRR HC1


Lots of interesting comments here, but there are some gaps in logic.

First, 3-D printing. While it would reduce costs associated with tooling, other cost factors would remain high, and possibly skyrocket because of this approach. 3-D printing is fine for producing a shell, but a locomotive also includes hundreds of other parts, all of which would have to be designed to fit, interact, and integrate with each other to make a whole product. That means intensive design work. If you stray into territory that no one has in terms of locomotive production, you would have to add to the R&D costs. And you would be expected to pay the costs of amortization of the equipment needed to produce a model, 3-D printer included. Plus, we have a current alternative to minimal tooling options. It's called brass.

Second, making the model that you want. If it hasn't been made already, there is usually a reason why. While it's possible that manufacturers have missed one sure seller, it's much more likely that the model you want isn't one of them. Given the cost of traditional tooling, manufacturers have to spend a lot of time and effort deciding what to produce. Not surpringly, they have had very few misses. Market research and past experiences determine what will get manufactured. Or look at it this way. When you read someone else's idea of what should be made that hasn't been already, how excited are you about the prospect of spending $1,500 on it.

Third, the size of the market. This one is obvious. It's getting smaller, not larger. Producing a product in less demand than what has already been made becomes less likely. HO has the largest market, followed by N scale. By the time we get to O and S, the market becomes perceptibly finite. Think of it this way. Somewhere out there is someone saying, "Why doesn't someone make a Pennsy K4 in TT scale?" See what I mean?

I am not bashing people's desires. I have my list of wants too. I mean, where's my B&O C-16a? But, logic says we won't likely get our wishes fulfilled.

 

Last edited by Jim R.

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