@gunrunnerjohn posted:I thought the "markers" that are red and amber should be on the pilot, the class lights at the top of the boiler should be green, white, or off. I'm pretty sure that red is not correct for the lights at the top of the boiler.
Easily changed if it’s incorrect, …there are no marker lamp housings on the pilot. I’d have to add them if they’re supposed to be there,……
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Easily changed if it’s incorrect, …there are no marker lamp housings on the pilot. I’d have to add them if they’re supposed to be there,……
Pat
I don't remember seeing any in the real deal photos. I would think that anyone doing an accurate model like 3rd Rail would have definitely popped them on if there was Pat. Pop back and look through the photos on page 2.
Over on page 2, my post of picture links, smoke box color #2 looks like they're yella, or is that technically amber? Heck, idk.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I thought the "markers" that are red and amber should be on the pilot, the class lights at the top of the boiler should be green, white, or off. I'm pretty sure that red is not correct for the lights at the top of the boiler.
Class lights went away in 1940. Front-end markers moved from the pilot beam to the smokebox in 1942. The S2 was built in 1944. Be careful with "pretty sure."
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I don't remember seeing any in the real deal photos. I would think that anyone doing an accurate model like 3rd Rail would have definitely popped them on if there was Pat. Pop back and look through the photos on page 2.
How hard did you look? 
They're certainly a bit odd, the square box back a bit on the top of the boiler.
Check the photos on this page: http://industrialscenery.blogs...bine-locomotive.html
Or these photos: ennsylvania_Railroad_S2" target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.org/...sylvania_Railroad_S2
Yet another photo: RR_S2.jpg" target="_blank">https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/...edia/File
RR_S2.jpg
@Bob posted:Class lights went away in 1940. Front-end markers moved from the pilot beam to the smokebox in 1942. The S2 was built in 1944. Be careful with "pretty sure."
So is what I did correct for what we’ve got on this model Bob?…….removing these now would be a chore, …..so can they stay as I have them, or do they need to be removed?
Pat
@gunrunnerjohn, some of your links are bad John. I didn't see anything on the pilot is what I was referring to. The little square boxes up top are there, I think I had noted that back somewhere on page 2 about them being on the money. Most people wouldn't think of a square box for lights as so many of the postwar Lionel offerings are rounded or such, but square does seem odd.
@harmonyards posted:So is what I did correct for what we’ve got on this model Bob?…….removing these now would be a chore, …..so can they stay as I have them, or do they need to be removed?
Pat
I didn't get an opportunity last night to read through the PDF Bob posted. I only know what is in the photos if the color pictures are correct. Heck, that could even be off.
@harmonyards posted:So is what I did correct for what we’ve got on this model Bob?…….removing these now would be a chore, …..so can they stay as I have them, or do they need to be removed?
Pat
Pat, what you have is exactly correct. Pause the video slide show below at the 1:18 and 1:51 marks and check out the prototype.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWHnTmNTwAI
As for smoke, the majority coming out of one stack looks really strange. See the 1:31 and 2:30 marks.
Pat, would there be a way to pop a splitter or some sort of thing to try and channel the smoke to the other stacks, or is that something there is no room for?
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Pat, would there be a way to pop a splitter or some sort of thing to try and channel the smoke to the other stacks, or is that something there is no room for?
Dave, watch the video of the model running on the layout, ….it does indeed draft out all four holes,….sitting still, it’s not as prominent, but going down the road, I kinda thought I nailed it, ……the test run is on page 5,…..check it out, and let me know what y’all think…
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Dave, watch the video of the model running on the layout, ….it does indeed draft out all four holes,….sitting still, it’s not as prominent, but going down the road, I kinda thought I nailed it, ……the test run is on page 5,…..check it out, and let me know what y’all think…
Pat
What's Bob talking about then, the real deal video? I know I saw it coming out before, but after what Bob said I doubted my memory. What does Bob mean?
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:What's Bob talking about then, the real deal video? I know I saw it coming out before, but after what Bob said I doubted my memory. What does Bob mean?
I believe he’s referencing the real deal video, …..in that video, you can see it swirl out the stacks …..I’m good, but I ain’t that good,…..😁
Pat
@harmonyards posted:I believe he’s referencing the real deal video, …..in that video, you can see it swirl out the stacks …..I’m good, but I ain’t that good,…..😁
Pat
Hmm, I don't see it coming out of only one in the timeframe giving. I know that around 1:24 there is an odd pictures which there is smoke coming out, but a single odd whitish puff(or jet) making it look like there is a dynamo output, or popoff valve, something small that distorts the imagine looking like the engineer's front side stack is smoking alone, but you can see the other side is there as well just a bit lighter because of the puff distorting it.
I think you have it to a "T" Pat, and seeing how the smoke is in the photos and videos, right on. Now the only thing to do is install John's fix to adjust the smoke output.
Yeah Dave, the plan is to add John’s board once we got this all dialed in how we want it, ……no sense adding & adding things only to have a mess that is hard to diagnose what’s wrong,……John’s board will be added tender side, beings I’ve got the extra leaders to the 10 pin tether to add stuff right there……motor reference and all is right at my fingertips in the tender,….
Pat
The engine looks fantastic. I think the thing I like the most about it is the smoke box color. When you covered up that annoying silver, it really took on a new life. I happen to see one of the Lionel versions recently on one of the sites, there's doesn't look like this one. Hard to figure out what color the smoke box is though(blurry picture in one version, other version bad side picture as well). This is a beast, waiting to be let out on the rails. 👹👹👹👍👍😈😈
I think Bob is referencing that when stationary it looks like the steam is more prominent from one or two of the stacks vs an even distribution.
Lionel attempted to circumvent this issue with a 1to4 baffle in their version. I might have a spare if you want it (I previously took a damaged TMCC version of the engine and a legacy version with a fantasy road name and bashed them to get 6200 in legacy).
Ah, but that was before the test run at speed though.
@Andrew B. posted:I think Bob is referencing that when stationary it looks like the steam is more prominent from one or two of the stacks vs an even distribution.
Lionel attempted to circumvent this issue with a 1to4 baffle in their version. I might have a spare if you want it (I previously took a damaged TMCC version of the engine and a legacy version with a fantasy road name and bashed them to get 6200 in legacy).
Actually, if you look at my stationary video of the smoke system bench test, ….it does only come out of two stacks and sorta does this cool looking vacuum thing on the other 2 stacks, ….when in motion, the draft pulls on all 4,……if you can page back through, look at the videos again, and let us all know what you think,……don’t sugarcoat it, let us know ….😉
Pat
In looking at the video, it would be nice to improve the dynamo steam, this is kinda what it should look like. If you look at real locomotive videos, the dynamo steam is a fairly forceful stream. That makes sense since it's being called on to spin a turbine and generate electricity!
John, I purposely slowed mine down, at first I thought it was way too much, ….I must’ve went too far with my adjuster choke …., ……I do see that it is a little weak, …..I can crank it up,…..
Pat
Pat, I think you have volume, what you may need is more pressure and a smaller nozzle to get more velocity.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Pat, I think you have volume, what you may need is more pressure and a smaller nozzle to get more velocity.
Could be John, ….beauty is, nothing is set in stone yet, …..that’s the purpose of the exercise, ….to perfect it!…Ill get more pressure out one way or the other….
Pat
So after today’s discussions, let’s tackle one adjustment at a time, ……To define the stack output, the boys up at West Albany suggested some kind of way to make the smoke corkscrew coming out of the stacks, ….some helicoils were suggested in the stacks to make the smoke have some spin,……those cats at West Albany are pretty smart cookies…….I’m out of the correct size helicoils that would be a snug slip fit, so I made some quick test stand ins out of rigid wire, ……I only did 2, as this is only a test of the emergency broadcast system……the smoke does indeed corkscrew, …..although it’s hard to capture in a video ……it will be worth the effort,……also note, this trick defines the stacks when in motion as well,…..
Pat
They look good, may well be worth the effort. 
Another little trick, maybe put 6V on the fan motor to get a bit more velocity out of it.
eBay: 265148405879
2 Pieces Air Pumps Diaphragm 3V 6V 3.7v DC Small Mini Miniature B2, $12.08 & free shipping from US seller.
I have a couple of bigger versions, I used one to enhance the Lionel #394 Beacon by blowing a little air up through the rotating hood.
John, wonder if I could use something like that to enhance the scavenger pipe, …..I couldn’t fit a bigger motor on the smoke unit, the stock motor is already almost about to scrape the boiler,…..it’s so close, I had to make an insulator pad for the bottom of the fan motor ……..certainly may enhance the dynamo steam if I can’t get the pressure like we’d all like ……
Pat
Pat, that's why I posted the little one on eBay, looks like a size that would fit. You could power it with a tiny DC supply off the main smoke heater voltage, that way the dynamo booster would only run with the main smoke. I'd be glad to send you the big one, but it really looks too large to fit.
Pat, you can definitely see the little bit of corkscrewing when the video first starts, but it is quick. Another couple of videos after you get that hammered down in there I'm sure it will be more noticeable.
Guys, I was talking about smoke output from all 4 stacks while at rest. See the 1:31 and 1:57 marks in the video slide show (link below) of the prototype.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWHnTmNTwAI
In motion, Pat's 12-second video a few posts above this one shows that he nailed it!
Cool, so with Bob’s blessing, we’ll call the stack output good, I’ll get some 5/16-18 helicoils, chemically blacken them, and get them in all 4 stacks,……this was Pete’s (Norton) idea, so thank you Pete!….I think it definitely made a difference, so we’ll roll with it,…..I’ll adjust the dynamo output to more look like what John posted, and then we’ll call that good, ……push comes to shove, I can add a helper motor to the scavenger to draw out the gasses, …..
Pat
Pat,
Progress looks great! I'll second John's input that more velocity out of the dynamo steam would be great. Once the smoke effects are ironed out; I'm looking forward to what you can do with the smoke lifters.
Lots of discussion on marker and class lights in the earlier posts. Sounds like it's all sorted out. Included below are some pictures I took at the RR Museum of PA for more clarity on PRR practice as described in the PDF file Bob provided:
PRR G5 in the 1922 to 1940 configuration for passenger steam with class lights on the smokebox and markers on the pilot beam:
PRR H6 in the 1929 - 1942/6 freight configuration with markers on the pilot beam, no class lights:
PRR E6 in the post 1946 configuration with "bulls eye" markers on the smokebox, no class lights:
Hey Scott, I got those in my photo collection too. Heck, never thought about looking back at them. Darn it!
Great things they are!
Those… museums.
You know, watching the video again, it's funny not seeing the smoke box door on. Of course it is not ready to go on, but it reminds me of some movies(old ones) where there is an incident with the engine and it is blown off or messed up somehow. Just looks funny not being there.
Ok Pennsy people, …..need the fast answer about the headlight, …..on or off while in reverse,…….go, in 3,2,1, …..😁
Pat
Hi Pat, Well I know a lot more about marker lights than headlight protocols, but I believe the headlight should be off when in reverse. It would be way cool to see the headlight turn off and the smokebox markers turn on when in reverse!
@Scott R posted:Hi Pat, Well I know a lot more about marker lights than headlight protocols, but I believe the headlight should be off when in reverse. It would be way cool to see the headlight turn off and the smokebox markers turn on when in reverse!
I can certainly make that happen, ….let’s hear from another authority on the headlight subject, and I’ll have film either this evening or tomorrow, one ….
Pat
Not sure if this is helpful or not Pat, I'll let you decide. This topic is back from 2017 and our resident sage of mostly all things steam Hot Water answered twice to the original poster's question. The link is to his second reply, which states that the engineer(or fireman in the case of SP) had to turn off the headlight to turn on the reverse or back lights. Please look at this to confirm that I read that right.
Most of the replies say the same as Hot Water, in that it is switched on to off for the headlight, and backups switched on. There is also some other bits talked about with switchers as well as an engine yielding to another. Have a look and see if you think that it makes sense. Another reply cited New York Central rule from I think 1956 which is above Hot Water's reply.
Well, we’re gonna roll with what Scott says for the moment, …..ain’t like it’s act of Congress to change that back, ….it’s all done via the remote anyways, ……Thank you Scott & Dave, …..I shall carry on with my mission, …….over….
Pat
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