Pat,
"I’d like to hear input on are things like the class lights"
The best source on the forum is here: PRR marker and classifaction light practices 1922-1957 - info you can use to harmonize locomotive details with your chosen era | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)
Looking forward to seeing progress on this project!
@Scott R posted:Pat,
"I’d like to hear input on are things like the class lights"
The best source on the forum is here: PRR marker and classifaction light practices 1922-1957 - info you can use to harmonize locomotive details with your chosen era | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)
Looking forward to seeing progress on this project!
Thank you Scott, and everyone else that have provided links, with info!…..it’s all valuable information, ……BUT, I want to know what YOU guys & gals want to see,….if it’s supposed to have green class lights, etc, and popular consensus says so, then that’s what we’ll do!…..maybe I should’ve made this idea a little more clear on the opening post,…….I’m pretty sure I can do some research, and come up with a fairly accurate enough model based on what I read & see in the history books, …….but the enjoyment in the thread, the dialogue, and then seeing that dialogue applied in practice, will be a whole lot more fun, ….IMO, ……an example is like what Ryan suggested, then John said is doable,……so that’s what we’re gonna do!…So far nobody’s rebutted what Ryan said about how it’s supposed to smoke, so it’s looking like popular consensus ……so far …..😁
Pat
Pat,
Well since you asked, the lights on the S2 smokebox are not class lights at all! They are actually marker lights that would only be illuminated during reverse movements when the front of the locomotive is actually the rear of the train.
The S2 had unusual, cubed-shaped smoke box markers unlike any on other Pennsy steam as described in the link I posted. So, if it were up to me, the smoke box markers on your S2 would have red lenses facing forward and amber lenses facing outward. Extra credit if they are off when the locomotive is moving forward and automatically illuminate when in reverse!
@Scott R posted:Extra credit if they are off when the locomotive is moving forward and automatically illuminate when in reverse!
Easy to do, just have to have the reverse lamp come from the board in the tender to the locomotive.
@Scott R posted:Pat,
Well since you asked, the lights on the S2 smokebox are not class lights at all! They are actually marker lights that would only be illuminated during reverse movements when the front of the locomotive is actually the rear of the train.
The S2 had unusual, cubed-shaped smoke box markers unlike any on other Pennsy steam as described in the link I posted. So, if it were up to me, the smoke box markers on your S2 would have red lenses facing forward and amber lenses facing outward. Extra credit if they are off when the locomotive is moving forward and automatically illuminate when in reverse!
^^^^^^^^^^ now we’re talking!!^^^^^^^^^ and yes, we can certainly tie something like that into the reverse light circuit for proper operation,……that’s certainly odd from NYC practice, but if it’s so, that’s how we’re gonna do it,…😁….just as if you guys were having an engine spec built as y’all would like to see it!….that’s good stuff Scott!!
Pat
@D500 posted:Just as an aside, the PRR S2 direct-drive steam turbine was a near-success. It actually worked and did the job, though not without certain issues, and all new technologies or new applications of technologies have issues.
Yes, the reading I’ve done on it indicated that much of the trouble was just a lack of straight and trouble free track work to run at the speeds it needed to be efficient.
Even a NYC guy like me can't resist the PRR's trio of wild and crazy locos: the S1, S2 and T1. I have a model of each.
Don’t forget the Qs too!
Pat,
I’ve seen photographs of 6200 with the “elephant ears” and without. Here’s something a little more unique.
For a while at least, it ran with “half ears” that were smaller and curved to the profile of the boiler. That might really make your copy unique too!
Ryan, maybe on the elephant ears,….they don’t look difficult to make, so let’s see if we get a few more yays ……one thing I see clearly in the pic you linked, are the cube type marker lights ( I was properly corrected by Scott on that terminology ) and I know I can scratch build them accurately,……so they are a must
how’s everyone with the stock colors as-is?…..and the finish?….the finish isn’t glossy like an old Williams, but it’s not dead flat like model paints, ……it’s more of a satin finish,….paint looks fairly crisp, and I’m not seeing any ugly eye sores,…
Pat
The paint looks fine. Not crazy like Tuscan red and has enough striping to make it look classy.
I looked at few photos of the engine and it looks like the placement of the marker lights changed a few times. It seems they would be moved to the front or a little further back like in @rplst8 ‘s photo. Maybe a change in marker position?
If we're throwing out suggestions, I like the idea of having changeable elephant ears, IE applied magnetically or some other way but removable. Maybe both the "half-ears" and full smoke lifters each able to be taken off if desired and run clean.
I really like the flexible elephant ear idea. If I had to choose just one though, it would be the "half ears." They look classy to me. The full ears look too similar to the NYC Niagara smoke lifters for a Pennsy engine.
@rplst8 posted:Don’t forget the Qs too!
I have a T1 and a Q2, still looking for an S1 at a reasonable price. 
@Scott R posted:I really like the flexible elephant ear idea. If I had to choose just one though, it would be the "half ears." They look classy to me. The full ears look too similar to the NYC Niagara smoke lifters for a Pennsy engine.
I like the idea too, ….I’ll look into it’s feasibility,….
Pat
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Certainly no chuffs, but I think the smoke volume probably changes with speed.
Yeah, a few of the pictures have virtually no smoke billowing out, others look like a bunch of steam engines were having a party.
@harmonyards posted:I like the idea too, ….I’ll look into it’s feasibility,….
Pat
Yeah, one of the pictures said that the ears were added later.
Also, one other thing is the colors changing a bit, that is the smoke box. In a few of the pictures the tone is lighter, others darker. Did they change the colors on the smoke box over time?
Well, what does all this do for the color?
On the PRR, the graphite treatment of smokeboxes and firebox sides were generally consistent within a shop facility, but varied between shop facilities. For example, Columbus might use a lighter graphite mix than Altoona.
Regarding the above linked photos:
"Smoke box silver?" is Baldwin's builder's photo. For these photos, driver tires were usually painted white (and usually only on the side facing the camera) and smokeboxes had a gray treatment. These photos were often retouched as well.
"Smoke box color 2" shows the S2 posed on Horseshoe Curve. I've read that this was only done during its first trip west after being built. Thus the smokebox in this photo had the graphite applied by Baldwin. The S2 never ran east of Pittsburgh, and almost exclusively served the Crestline, OH to Chicago segment of the railroad, as did the S1. The nickname for this mostly flat and straight segment was "the race track."
The lighting in "Smoke box color 3" is so bad that no conclusion should be drawn from the photo.
This leaves the "Smoke box color" photo, taken in 1950 (thus after PRR shopping) and also taken in direct sunlight. Dark graphite wins the day!
I purchased this engine when first released and sold it many years ago and upgraded to a Lionel TMCC version. The sprung drive wheels are my biggest complaint with the model. When going around curves the two middle drivers drop off the rail and fall inside, looking odd. Norm C. recently did an upgrade on an atsf 2-10-4 from 3rd rail where he mentioned replacing the springs for the first and last drivers with inserts instead to stop this. I assume a similar approach could be used here on this.
I always thought the key stone on the smoke box looked small on this model.
The final fix for that driver drop issue was to also harden the stance of the rear drivers. At first I tried just plugging the center blind drivers. The springs were so soft in that engine. If I was running tubular track it would not have been a problem because those blind drivers would ride themselves right back out over the radius of the railhead. I left the front springs intact.
I like the idea of interchangeable smoke deflectors ie: elephant ears but think the build should stay as close as possible to what she was when either scraped or as built. Not the in between looks she had over her short life. I read somewhere she finished out her life in NE PA somewhere. Sad that her like the S1 were never preserved.
Another vote here for the detachable elephant ears.
According to Wikipedia‚ although the source isn't noted, the larger elephant ears were put on in December 1946 and they stayed on until its scrapping, so the S2 had them most of its life. The small, semi-circular deflectors were ineffective and short-lived, according to the Wikepedia article.
Edit to add: That same article says the elephant ears were necessary, because it blew "heavy smoke" at lower speeds, so have the smoke start heavy and thin out at higher speeds would seem to be appropriate.
@rplst8 posted:Yes, the reading I’ve done on it indicated that much of the trouble was just a lack of straight and trouble free track work to run at the speeds it needed to be efficient.
Don’t forget the Qs too!
The S2 was being used right up to its grade crossing accident in early 1949. With the diesels coming on line, it was not cost effective to fix it.
I have 3rd Rail's Q1, an absolutely awesome looking engine. Unfortunately, it has issues even with my O-90 curves. Maybe the same issue as mentioned with the driver springs, but I have not had problems with my 3rd Rail S2.
2nd pair of elephant ears it is!….last night I looked at the stock ones, and they simply pop right off, so producing a second set from sheet brass won’t be an issue ….they’ll be the shorter set, with the appropriate detail, ….I’ve made elephant ears from scratch before for a L&HR R1 project, so I’m no stranger to danger…..consider it done….😁
Pat
Not that I really plan on doing a total repaint ( I’d rather not ) but did 3rd Rail get the Brunswick green fairly decent on this model? And what about the Tuscan red?…I need to see if I can con, ….oops I mean coax my buddy Dave to make a list of the upgrades we are going to do …..kinda like we’ve done on other useful threads, so there’s one place to go to for a “master list “ of what we’re doing, then once we’re satisfied, we’ll commit …
Pat
Removable elephant ears-stock and short
Smoke box color-dark graphite
Reverse lamp-when in reverse
Smoke-billows at low, hardly there at speed, no chuffs, constant flow
Engine and tender colors-are okay
Class Lights-yes, and they are in the right spot unlike the Lionel Model which they are on the front instead of sides
Firebox color-looks right as there does seem to be a little outline around the black according to the photos(Lionel's silver)
Driver springs? Norm's reply on Drivers
Cab Curtains-yes
Deck Plate-yes if works
Crew Skeletons-Replace those with real working crew that eats for a living
Second edit 5:40PM 2/5/2023
Thank you Dave!….ask & ye shall receive!?
Pat
Since it’s a turbine, a funny easter egg would be to have a jet engine sound kick in over 80 SMPH.
Ok, maybe thats a stretch.
P.S. best forum topic in a while for sure.
@harmonyards posted:Thank you Dave!….ask & ye shall receive!?
Pat
No problem Pat. Bob had commented on the smoke box colors which was very helpful, I don't remember now if there was anything regarding the overall color. I believe someone did say the red was right, but since I was in a bit of a rush this morning, I didn't finish looking. After breakfast I'll pop a better look at things. I think the black looks good, could be better, but what do I know.
Anybody apposed to cab curtains and a tender drop plate?
Also, the paint looks pretty close to the real thing. http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=4969557
@Trainmaster04 posted:Anybody apposed to cab curtains and a tender drop plate?
Also, the paint looks pretty close to the real thing. http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=4969557
Yeah, though that picture the black looks glossy, though I think that is lighting or something like that which I thought Bob said.
@harmonyards, what about the red, could you get a topside picture of the tender? I don't think there is any other red other than that, right Pat?
@Trainmaster04 posted:Anybody apposed to cab curtains and a tender drop plate?
Also, the paint looks pretty close to the real thing. http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=4969557
That’s a given, curtains, detailed cab, and deck plate are standard fare on most all my upgrades ( given certain track conditions that don’t allow for a deck plate ) also we’ll populate the cab with a seasoned crew,…..not the stick figure stiffs, or the anorexics victims 3rd Rail used in some of their engines ……😁
Pat
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Yeah, though that picture the black looks glossy, though I think that is lighting or something like that which I thought Bob said.
@harmonyards, what about the red, could you get a topside picture of the tender? I don't think there is any other red other than that, right Pat?
I’ll take clear pics of the top this evening for further discussion, …….I’d be willing to redo the Tuscan if warranted …..I’d rather not mess with all that green and having to re-letter ….that would put the price point in the stratosphere,……I’d like to keep it affordable for someone to acquire this thing,……besides, the boys in Harmon might start to complain about the stench of a PRR engine lingering around here too long,….😂😂😂
Pat
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:No problem Pat. Bob had commented on the smoke box colors which was very helpful, I don't remember now if there was anything regarding the overall color. I believe someone did say the red was right, but since I was in a bit of a rush this morning, I didn't finish looking. After breakfast I'll pop a better look at things. I think the black looks good, could be better, but what do I know.
If the consensus says the graphite is too light, I can certainly darken it out to perfection,…..but I’d wanna hear more than one say to make it so,….major upgrades, I want consensus, not one rule ……place your votes folks….
Pat
Darker firebox, the silver look doesn't do it.
@harmonyards posted:I’ll take clear pics of the top this evening for further discussion, …….I’d be willing to redo the Tuscan if warranted …..I’d rather not mess with all that green and having to re-letter ….that would put the price point in the stratosphere,……I’d like to keep it affordable for someone to acquire this thing,……besides, the boys in Harmon might start to complain about the stench of a PRR engine lingering around here too long,….😂😂😂
Pat
I agree that it looks like it is black color, the one photo looks like it is glossy, but I don't think that is right. Bob said definitely darker graphite. The red is probably okay, but it definitely needs to be seen better, so we will wait for the picture.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Darker firebox, the silver look doesn't do it.
Even the Lionel model from 2014 was dark, so I agree that silver must have been one of the things Bob mentioned. Keep it dark, looks far better.
Updated the details on the list.
@rplst8 posted:Since it’s a turbine, a funny easter egg would be to have a jet engine sound kick in over 80 SMPH.
Ok, maybe thats a stretch.
P.S. best forum topic in a while for sure.
Well, for these electronically clever guys in this thread, I would like to throw in the fact that a few years back Lionel offered a (totally cool) near-model of the NYC RDC/jet test bed, which, I guess, had a jet sound board in it. So....
I did not get the jet RDC; wish that I had.
Probably best to take a shot out in the daylight while the sun is out ( for now ) ….I’ll do that here in a minute…..it’s friggin cold as all get out here in NC ……but the things I do for this hobby!!…..🥶
Pat
Ok, that was cold ,…..and technically, I’m a Yankee,…..here’s some outdoor shots of our star, ….the Tuscan on tender will definitely have to be what y’all say, …..but clearly even I can see the smoke box silver has to go,…..no worries, that’s achievable,…..take a look, lemme know what else y’all see?…….my eyes are drawn to the horrible chrome wheels everywhere,…..we ain’t at a car show, they’ve got to go!!….
Pat 
There is no tuscan red on a PRR steam locomotive, zero, zilch, nada. The tender deck and insides of the streamlined shell should be what PRR called Freight Car Color. This is an orange/red and the photos above look good for that. The background of the keystone number plate on the nose should be toluene red, which is a bright red. Passenger cars were tuscan red, as were Diesel passenger locomotives after 1952. Prior to that, passenger locomotives were dark green like the freight locomotives.
@Bob posted:There is no tuscan red on a PRR steam locomotive, zero, zilch, nada. The tender deck and insides of the streamlined shell should be what PRR called Freight Car Color. This is an orange/red and the photos above look good for that. The background of the keystone number plate on the nose should be toluene red, which is a bright red. Passenger cars were tuscan red, as were Diesel passenger locomotives after 1952. Prior to that, passenger locomotives were dark green like the freight locomotives.
My bad Bob ……thanks for clearing that up,…..so the tender deck looks good …..noted sir,….
Pat
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