PRR T1 Steam Locomotive Trust

Foamer fantasy. 

 

I'll at least give them some credit for doing a little bit of research, though.

 

Rusty

That is just too hilarious!!!

 

Not to mention, anyone stupid enough to "donate" money to that farce may as well just kiss those dollars goodbye.

 

Only two technical questions come to mind:

 

1) With a one piece cast steel engine bed, with integral cylinders, were would the patter come from and who would do the casting?

 

2) What railroad on the North American Continent would be willing to operate it?

About the cast frame- would it be possible to engineer a fabricated frame in its place? Not just for a T1 specifically, but for any steam locomotive?

As having been a machinist in the past that built 16" thru 36" gauge trains, yes the frame can be fabricated.  It'll have some different structural properties than the one piece cast frame, but some calculations would be required to make sure it would still be up to snuff.

Not really, due to the extreme strength required for the very high HP steam locomotives used in the U.S. and Canada, as compared to the "lighter" axle loadings in Europe and the UK. That "NEW" steam locomotive, The Tornado, that everybody always refers to, is a typical British fabricated frame, three cylinder design, and really wasn't all that difficult to manufacture, since all it took was about ten years and many, many millions of British Pounds.

I think if you check, there were 52 T1's built by the Pennsylvania Railroad, not 50.

Wasn't the T1 frame one of the biggest castings in the world?

 

Here's a pic of one..well actually it's a screen grab from one of the 200 RR DVD's I have on a hard drive.

 

Interesting, to say the least.  Now we know who won't be involved, we can get going with those who will.  Believing is the greatest law in the universe !

As for who's gonna run it ????   Amtrak...on the Northeast Corridor!   At a buck forty-plus, I'm not looking to see this puppy on the Algoma Central anytime soon.  If these guys are smart, they'll duplicate #5500's Franklin Rotary "B" poppet gear, extra weight, and "freight" valve timing.   Huzzah!   Wait 'til I tell Lindy; she'll head for chooch school like yesterday !

Contact link for the above site does not work !

Weren't the T1's pretty much exiled to the west end of the system where the land was flat and the curves gentle?

 

Rusty

A frame could rather easily be 3D printed. There will be a few issues, but we can print boats, planes, chairs, frames.....all sorts of stuff.  We can print in metal, we can print in plastics. 

Correct! A CORRECT PRR T-1 would NOT meet the clearance requirements of the Northeast Corridor. 

Rusty:

 

Harrisburg is about as far east as the PRR would send a T-1.

 

Curt

T1 is not as big as you might think, nor is it excessively heavy.  The long active wheel base could be an issue, but she's not the nightmare every one thinks. The other side of the coin is that just because you can do a buck forty doesn't mean you have to.

AFAIC, the reason a T1 makes a lot of sense is because you can get a LOT of people behind it, and not just a bunch of foamie basement dwellers, but the right people.  Hey, this movement had to start somewhere, and for reasons I can't begin to understand, the NYCS guys have dropped the ball on getting a new built Hudson.  It IS possible, and eventually , will be done!

 Case in point...the frame could be cast in two sections, front and rear and then permanently joined together.  And there are plenty of places on the NEC that could accomodate the T1....even flat out !

jaygee

I just used the 'contact us' successfully, maybe try it again.

Horseshoe curve sure if flat

How long would it take to built a T1? (or J3a or whatever...)

 

It only took 14 years to build the Tornado...

 

It took Kloke 10 years to build the Leviatan, a much smaller and simpler locomotive.

 

Rusty

contact us still not working !  Must be the Baldwin half of the T1 formula kickin' in !

I would suspect the reason the T1s never ventured east of Harrisburg is that the GG1s pretty much had that wrapped up - high speed passenger traffic.

Im not suggesting this is at all possible ...........................but Tornado?  15 years ago here in the Uk it was said that was impossible

 

Yup, impossible.....just like the Golden Spike Centennial LTD. in the mid '60s, and AFT .....in the early '70s !  We lost the last NYCS Hudsons in the late '50s, and have never been able to fix that sad event.  Why?   1) NO commitment  2) NO communication  3) NO clarity  4)  NO vision   5)  NO focus   6)  NO  action,   and a few more.   And people wonder why there's no effort !    The nay-sayers do have a point...we couldn't save ESPEE 4450, which was still in existence, before the hamburger/french fry crowd cut her up!   But then, hardly anyone outside a very tiny loop knew what was up.  The glass can be half full, just as easily as half empty, folks.   Sooner or later, this type of project will succeed, and it might as well be NOW !

As I have stated many times previously, unlike the UK, here in the U.S. there is/are no "big dollar" individuals that give a rat's *** about steam locomotives! Plus, the UK is not over-run with ambulance chasing liability attorneys, as is the case here in the U.S., which allows the railways systems over there to operate a LOT of privately owned steam locomotives on trips with paying passengers.

Plus, with the general public, railroads are not held with the same regard in the U.S. as they are in Britain. 

 

And, by the way, the American Freedom Train and Golden Spike Centennial used existing, available equipment, not something built from scratch.  If the organizers would have told the donors they'd have to build the locomotives from scratch, the money would've dried up real quick.

 

As I recall, the initial AFT proposal called for two de-streamlined N&W J's.  I wonder where they would have gotten the other one from...

 

Rusty

Simple.... start scrapping a bunch of politician/ lawyer types to pay for.... new steam locomotives !   Huzzah !

No, not two "de-streamlined N&W J's", but TWO NKP 700 class Berks. Ross Rowland already had #759, and he made arrangements to get the #763 from the Roanoke Transportation Museum. In fact, the poor 763 was even moved up to New Jersey, and work was begun on the boiler, before clearer heads prevailed in the top management of the American Freedom Train Foundation, after realizing that NONE of the western railroads would have allowed TWO coal burning steam locomotives on any of their lines. Thus, the SP 4449 was selected, and NKP 763 was returned to Roanoke, Va.

You wouldn't get much.  How much is scrap hot air going for nowadays?  You'd probably have to pay the scrapper...

 

Rusty

JayGee check your email

Can you even imagine coupling such a piece of machinery up to, say ten or twelve heavyweight sleepers and heading out into the night?!  An experience you'd never be able to describe, let alone forget !    How could this possibly happen?  Rest assured, If we get the confidence and determination to actually build her, the rest will be a piece of cake !

One of the issues re power for the American freedom Train that was discovered very late was that the SP GS-4 was too high to be within a lot of clearances for the AFT route east of the Mississippi, so a 2nd engine was needed. They used a Reading T1 4-8-4 for the eastern route.

That's interesting because they were able to get the 4449 to Virginia next to D.C..

I think a song from the 1970's fits the T-1:  "Slip sliding away...."  But if one is ever built, it would prove or disprove that the T1 was a slippery engine.

 

But why spend money on a T when it could be used to get 3985 ready for her 15 year inspection.....

So let's say a whole bunch of folks donate, and the trust grows to two million bucks - about the amount we need to resurrect our ten- wheeler, but not enough to even get the main frame of a T1 fabricated.  What then happens to those donations- do they go for cancer research, get returned, or finance this guy's other hobbies?

In truth, that whole thing was a fabrication be a certain individual "involved" with the Reading T1. The clearance diagram for 4449 was "doctored", prior to it being submitted to the then Chessie System headquarters, and indicated that the 4449 was higher and wider than she really was. The Chief Mechanical Officer for the American Freedom Train discovered the "doctored" 4449 clearance drawing some years later, but the "damage" was already done, i.e the Reading T1 was used in the eastern states, especially on the Chessie System, while 4449 waited for her return to AFT service.

I'll step up and accept deposits to my bank account!

 

Simon

I had been told that the Reading T1 was used because the 4449 wasn't going to be ready in time. Apparently the T1 was a lot easier to get running quickly.

http://www.freedomtrain.org/am...1-30-day-miracle.htm

 

At that time, I had heard that the daylight was too big to be used in the east over all the trackage the AFT would be traveling.

That was only for the start of AFT operations. Yes, 4449 was still be overhauled out in Portland, OR, thus two or three Reading T1 locomotives were literally taken out of a scrap yard (Philly?) and #2101 was made runnable within a VERY short period of time, and became AFT #1. AFT #1 started the Freedom Train in DC, and progressed west to Chicago, where 4449 took over, in July 1975. 

As I stated just previously, it is correct that 4449 was NOT yet ready for the actual start-up of the Freedom Train, and that is why Reading T1 #2101 was used to get the train to Chicago, in July of 1975.

 

The Later Freedom Train Operations in the Eastern States, i.e. on the Chessie System, took place during 1976, and THAT was when the 4449 was CLAIMED to be too big. Thus, the Reading T1 was used again. Again, as I stated above, the clearance drawing for 4449 was "doctored" prior to being submitted to the Chessie System Mechanical Department.