PS1 Locos ..."enjoyment on the cheap"

Some of my favorite locos are PS1.  That said, PS1 locos cause me by far the most operating headaches (three clanks of death, etc.), but are certainly upgradable when they get to that point.  

All very true...and seeing how these models are 18 and 19 years old. I learned enough on here (OGR) to not even try to run these with the original battery or they probably would have been major headaches to straiten out.

Another fan of the older MTH motive power here...all very reliable and smooth running.

Thanks for the post.

Bob

I saw them and was real tempted . He had a lot of nice stuff.

Mike exploded onto the O-Gauge world and produced some of the best engines the hobby had ever seen (at that time). I still have eight of them, but converted them all to TMCC. I kept them because they are really special and they are all working on the layout.

Bob

I did the same thing yesterday at the Annual Asheville Model Train Show in N.C. And, I think you are right most guys/gals don't like to fool with them.

I was strictly looking for TMCC or Legacy but stumbled on a MTH Louisville & Nashville complete set all NIB as I was leaving for 475.00:

EMD f-3 AA

2 each f-3 B units

4 aluminum car passenger set

2 aluminum add on dinner and sleeper

1 additional aluminum dome car

The gentleman just said none of his kids wanted any of his trains.

I will just add it to the 6 or 7 PS1 sets I have and be very happy with it.

Yes he did Brad ....I would have bought more but had limited funds.

I did layaway two other locos... the vendors mom lives locally to me so when he comes to visit her I will be able to get them then and pay him.

The forum really helps with good advice, doesn't it? - just a wealth if information. I( would not have gotten through all my PS-1 issues without it.

In my case I replaced all the batteries with BCRs and never had those particular problems.  Most of the PS-1 problems I've had have been boards or components wearing out - no reason to be disappointed with MTH either - I don't have any other electronic stuff I can think of that hasn't had some problems after twenty years, either.  Part of the PS-1 specific issues to me are diagnostic: is it just being PS-1 and difficult, or is it really broken hardware, etc.  Takes a while and I've made more than a few frustrating "learning sessions"  . . . 

Finally, given technical progress in the toy train field, it seems to me it makes no sense to repair the PS-1 when it does break: upgrades to newer units, whether PS2 or aftermarket, seems best. 

I have three former PS1 units. All have been converted to tmcc and are my strongest pullers. 

Rock solid drive trains.  Good details for their time.  If the PS-1 electronics crap out you can easily replace with a Dallee or Williams E-unit or swap out the PS-1 for PS-2/PS-3 or TMCC electronics.

I have 4 PS1 locomotives and they are all still running just fine.  Matt

Jack ,We're going right out the north end

After 4 attempts I finally received a PS1 engine that works. The first three came from previous owners with the understanding they didn't work and I intended to install a command system in them. Now that I have one that works I am pretty impressed. I may just leave it conventional.

Pete

I don't mind a PS-1 engine at all. As mentioned you can buy them cheap enough and if the board dies I'll convert it to PS-2. I have 4 PS-1 engines and right from the get go I replace the batteries with an MTH green batteries before I even give the engine voltage for the first time.  No problems so far.

All great info guys.  PS1 engines were great when they were new and they still are.  Bob is very correct in what he stated about the battery.  Chris is correct regarding the green battery.  A good point is just throw any white battery out.  PS1 or PS2, if it has a white battery, throw it out.

Yesterday I had a local  guy who is involved with a module club bring me a PS1 SD-60 that was in a very bad way.  He stated he went to start it up after sitting for a long time and everything went very bad on an attempt to power up.  He called me on the phone three days ago and asked me what to do before he started up the locomotive that had been sitting.  I told him put in a new battery and do the  feature 18 reset.  When he brought the locomotive to me I asked him if he did what I outlined and he stated the battery looked good and he continued to power up.  I took his battery that he stated LOOKED GOOD and put the meter on it.  It had .5 volts.  Not 5 volts but .5.  I informed him he was on his own. 

People, my point is PS1 is great but do things right.  I am not as smart as the man I mentioned because I can not look at a battery and possess the ability to state the battery is good because it looked good.  I need a meter.

Dotty could not believe he did this as she was with me when I told him what to do before powering the locomotive.   People, many PS1 boards exist for repairs but I consider it pure stupidity to ruin any electronics out of being cheap.  Guys, the cost of a battery is not going to put anyone in the poor house. 

One more thing for operators of PS1 equipment.  Be advised these boards are still available from MTH.  From time to time someone will post that these boards are out of stock and that is not true.  The chips are also available. 

Bob Taylor, repair people love guys like yourself who know what to do.  Enjoy your engines and have fun.

Good post Marty. A good  charged  battery whether we like it or not is a must for MTH trains.

When I got into O gauge several years ago my attitude was "command control only, no conventional" which of course meant no PS-1 locomotives.  Well, last year we rewired my friend's layout to run conventional equipment.  Among his conventional equipment were three PS-1 engines, which had never been run.  I went and replaced the ancient NiCad batteries with BCRs, then when we ran them I made sure that the BCR had enough time to charge up.  Well, the PS-1 engines run beautifully.  I was greatly impressed with them, and my attitude has changed.  If I come across a PS-1 engine that I like I would consider buying it.

Stuart

Stuart, for every guy that does things like you and Bob, the train world has those who refuse to do so.  It seems when you tell them to throw the battery away, it is very offensive to them.  In the past year I have seen many PS1 locomotives come back to life.  Threat them right and they will run for a long time.

Here is a video of the FM running on the layout...This is a very early QSI unit,freight yard sounds were considered a "upgrade" at the time...but all later models came through with FYS .

Mint or not....a 19 year old battery is a 19 year old battery !

Common sense has got to tell you that any battery that old is shot !

Hey thank God these batteries aren't prone to leakage...because even at these bargain prices if they leaked in the box...the units would be junk.

Thanks for the kind words Marty !

Marty

You can sure bet I won't do it. As many times I've read that from you and several other members it's probably classified as one of the biggest DON'T DO'S on the forum. I'm thankful for the information. 

Sometimes I have read posts that someone asks a question and I know he did just that. I grin because I imagine seeing  the red fire coming out of your eyes.

I have quite a few, and while I don't run them as much, I do rotate some of them into "white noise duty" (the wife likes white noise to help her sleep better). If I build an outdoor run, they'll be pressed into more active service.

A $100 for a PS1 engine is a great price and well worth it, especially if you want to upgrade to PS2.  I bought a PS1 NIB RDG Crusader at York for $135 and thought I was getting a good deal. Upgraded it to PS2 and now it's one of my favorites.  

The key, like Marty said is to replace the battery first!! Don't even attempt a start, and always but always use a green battery now!  

The boards are really quite robust.  Yes they can get a software scramble, but I have been able to reset them all.  In over the 100 upgrades/repairs to PS-1 engines, I have see 2 Top board that's were non repairable, and just one bottom board I am still working on.  The bottom board blows the whistle/horn when running.  Sooner or later I will find the capacitor or diode that is leaking DC.   Considering the quality of the engines, these are great deals and worthy of the upgrade to PS-2 in my opinion.  G

Gentlemen,

   Not one thing wrong with those P1 engines after you install the BCR, lots of great running time and the young kids can run them right from a conventional transformer,

lots of fun for 1/2 the cost in most cases.

PCRR/Dave 

That is very true ...out of all of the PS1 engines I have,I never had a PS1 failure...I do have a GP9 that has a bad speaker but other than that never a problem.

My first PS1 loco was a BL2 demonstrator and I have really ran the heck out of it and I have pulled a consist of Railking die cast cars with it for hours on end...I actually blew a Williams 6 volt board with the same train (the loco was a late 80s GG1)The BL2 was ran so much that in 2001 I brought it to York back when MTH used to take in repairs and then send them back to you...The rollers were almost sawed off in the middle from so much run time...MTH fixed it for almost nothing and I think I just paid some money for the shipping...things were a lot different then !

As far as upgrading these I have no interest in doing that...I'm fortunate to have plenty of DCS locos to keep me busy when I want to run command.

What is a BCR?

On average, what is the cost to Upgrade to PS2 or 3 ?

rogerpete. A BCR replaces the 8.4 volt battery. No more battery to worry about.

Ran my PS-1 Daylight GS-2 after a year or two of sitting on the shelf. Put a smile on my face like the day I bought it home 15 years ago. I re-read parts of the manual just to remind myself how advanced these were for their time. Heck, even for today!

Can a '95 vintage MTH loco that came with only electronic horn be upgraded to PS1 or PS2?

-NYC20

Being of the "collector mentality" way back when MTH brought out PS-1, I had to have all those locomotives.  I bought a bunch of the PS-1 locos...and still have them.  After having the 3-clanks of death occur and not being educated about what was really wrong, I found out from great folks like Marty what to do.  Get rid of those white batteries!!  I wasn't aware at the time about the green battery but did find out about the BCR....so....over a 100 BCRs later, the PS-1 locomotives are running just like they did when brand new.  Some of the best sound and runners I have!!!

Alan

I have 9 with plans to get more.  My wife "gave" me two more for my birthday over the weekend, both RailKing locomotives, the SP Cab Forward and the PRR S-2.  They both run great and pull well.

And as a note, even if they have the green battery, if it's more than a couple years old and not been used during that time, replace it too!!!  1st thing I do in all my "new" PS-1 locos is replace the battery.  But my Dreyfuss was my 1st one, so I had it for a while.  Due to being in school I didn't get to run it much.  After sitting for a couple of years, I ran it, letting it sit over night to charge the battery, and it was still to weak and went into deselect mode.  My local MTH hobby shop that also does repairs told me it was history and to buy a new train.  But thanks to this forum I learned otherwise, bought a new chip and not it's running great, with a new battery.

What is a BCR?

RogerPete.  A BCR is a Battery Component Replacement.  The early ones (For most PS1 engines) looked like a 9 volt battery but they are Red.  It is really a capacitor that draws track power for the 1st 60 seconds after you start the engine.

After the 1st 60 seconds then you can run your engine and the BCR will do everything the battery will. 

As MTH changed battery styles, so did the BCR design change.  MTH recognized the value so much that they now install BCR's in their PS3 locos instead of batteries.

See this web site for more info...

http://www.jandwelectronics.com/

Ron

Yes, As long as the engine has a DC Motor and a flywheel it can be upgraded to PS-2.  I can be contacted via my profile e-mail if you want a quote for Upgrading an engine.  G

I still have 2 PS-1 engines with batteries, they are great !

I have a PS-3 copy of one of them and PREFER the PS-1 !!!

The sounds in the originals are awesome and have so much atmosphere that the new one totally lacks.

Mine are the Galloping Goose #7 and #5. The PS-3 is #7 again, looks exactly the same but only has station stops, Horn, Bell, and 2 voice clips.

The originals have cattle in the distance, a Thunderstorm, the sound of a creek running close by, ect. along with the Engine sounds.

I will eventually add TMCC command to them but the sounds are staying in them.

I have a very early ps1 c30-7 in conrail scheme.  I wanted one of those dash-8's for a high school graduation present but they were so popular they just couldn't be found.

It is still one of my favorites for sentimental reasons and becasue the horn can cut right through you!!  It still looks great right next to brand new power.

One of these days I going to finally get off work for York and get Mike W's autograph right on top of it!

Speaking of PS1s, I figured instead of posted a new thread, I'd post here.  I found a nice Premier Southern ABA set (20-2177-1) for under $300 and considered buying it (actually have been for a little while now).  I haven't yet for two reasons, 1 - I don't know about spending that much at this point, 2 - The only MTH engines I have are PS2 and dont know if buying a PS1 is worth it. 

Thoughts on my dilemma and that specific engine?

Coincidentally, I'm watching TM's 15 year old video Great MTH Layouts showing a lot of the great Proto 1 engines in action in all their glory and all their sounds blaring.

Even though I do prefer the Command-ready PS2/PS3 engines, I do really like the PS1 engines, especially the Premier steamers. Overall, they are some of the best conventional engines out there. Maybe I'll get one or two this York since money is tight for me currently...

I REALLY liked MTH's job on the E-4 Hudson, AC-6 Cab Forward, N&W Y6b, and DM&IR Yellowstone, and of course the Blue Comet. So hopefully someone has one of those then for sale (except the Comet, already have the both that and the PS3 version).

The whistles on most of the PS1 engines are still some of my favorites, too. The E-4 has definitely one of the best!

mjrodg3n88,

This is a personal choice that only you can make.  PS2 has a number of features that PS1 does not have, but some say the PS1 sounds are better.  You might find a video of 20-2177-1 on YouTube.  I've always liked the Southern F3, going back to the 1950s when Lionel made it, and I'd like to own the one you mention now. 

My rule of thumb is that if I really want something and can get it for half of original MSRP (or less), I buy it.  The 20-2177-1 MSRP was $680. 

I have 3 PS1 locos (20-3020 NYC J1e, 30-1149 PA S-2, & 30-2008 WP F3) with 2 more on the way.  I love them and wouldn't sell any of them for twice what I paid for them.  But I don't have any PS2s to compare.  Good luck with your decision!

-NYC20