PS3 Ditch Light Voltage (LEDs)

do you have a VOM volt ohm meter, set the meter to dc and read the good ditch light voltage, then check the one that does not light and read the voltage. then post what you have read. you might trying switch the lights in opposite sockets and you can prove if it's wiring or just a bad led (light emitting diode)

Try ton post a picture of the inside of the train wiring for the ditch lights. 

Good luck and get back to the forum and let us know how you made out.

Alan

You can use a 9V battery with a current limiting resistor of at least 300ohms.  470 would be nice.

Or, plug the suspect one into the good socket and see if it works.

These LED are about 2.4V  So you could also go that route, but I always use one with a limiting resistor in place.  G

I have an engine that the springs looked OK on. After doing this test, I realized the bulb was OK. So I went back and stretched the spring slightly with a screwdriver. After assembling, the light worked.

Thanks, the springs were suspect, but they all appear to be the same length. I suppose a small difference could go un-noticed. They will get stretched slightly later today. Sure hope the LED isn't bad.

Thanks for the voltages too, I tried measuring them but they oscillated so fast I couldn't get a good reading. Tried setting the ditch lights to 'On' in the setup menu, but the command would not take for some reason? the 'Off' or 'Auto' from the soft keys is all I could get to work. Even tried a factory reset, still no go.

The real kick in the pants was the front motor wire (one under the shroud that blocks it from view from the cab) that had a bad solder joint and was loose. While I was working on the darn thing, trying to read the LED voltage, it started bucking and wouldn't hardly run at all and I hadn't touched the motor. Just glad I found it and it wasn't a board or something. 

I'll do some more fiddling this afternoon. 

I was talking LED, I really don't know the effective voltage or current sent to the LED via the board.   G

good find. I had this happen to one and it touched the motor housing. The tab really needs to have heat shrink around it to prevent shorting. Sometimes the stock heat shrink gets removed, maybe for various reasons?

Both LEDs worked fine with a 5vdc power supply and 470 ohm resistor. I expanded the springs slightly, put it all back together and now neither of them work. While I had things apart I checked all the wiring harnesses to make sure they were plugged in tightly and had no loose wires. It all looked good. Not sure what to try next?

Yes, I got lucky there (even a blind hog gets a piece of corn once in a while). I don't think the wire touched anything, no evidence of black spots or anything that I could see. I don't think I even touched that wire, but it sure was disconnected and it did do some jerking around while I was trying to figure out what had gone wrong. I got this engine brand new, directly from MTHRRC a couple years ago, and this is the first time I have had the shell off of it.

Per above to GGG, I have no working ditch lights now. Maybe something did touch when the wire came loose? Don't know if that would/could affect ditch lights, wasn't anywhere near the light connections? Anyway, I'm making great progress, instead of fixing the bad ditch light I have now disabled the other one (don't think I can take credit for the first one though), so at least they are both operating in identically the same way now!

maybe just a reset. Do you have DCS?

Somehow they get joggled off sometimes.

Worth a try anyways. Some versions of DCS seem to mess up the lights.

The front ditch lights are on pin 5 and 39 .

Yes, I have DCS with 4.3 and rev L TIU. I'll give the reset a try tomorrow BEFORE I get out the hammer.   

I also have a Z-1000, if you can do one of the transformer resets with that? There was something only the xfmr reset would fix, but I forgot what it was? I've never done one of those.

Hmmm...I think I'll just place the hammer right next to the engine over night, maybe it will get the message.  

Thanks Marty, any good way to check those to see if they are working? I am pretty sure everything else is in place, looks like it is anyway, springs touching, no loose wires, etc.

The voltage to the ditch light is 3 VDC.  Your PCB grounds are on pins 19,23,30,38, and 40.  I know the next possible question so here it is.

Looking at your diesel board turned longwise you want the 8 pin connector on your left.  In front of you is the (much disliked by tech guys) 40 pin connector.  The row of pins on the bottom are reading left to right pins 1-39.  The row of pins on the top reading left to right are pins 2-40.  I hope that helps a bit.

rtr12 I changed that in my post to pins 5 and 39.  The memory let me down and I had to double check the books.  

Is the connector for each LED plugged in fully to the springs/holder.  Does the contact pad look like it has good engagement with a spring?

One test is to construct a harness that allows you to make contact with the pad and an LED.  If it lights you know the board and wiring is good, so it does get back to spring assembly contact with the pad.

Shimmy it up with nylon washer or a dab of solder to increase pad height.  G

Slide the spring blocks down all the way to the ends of their posts before reassembling the engine.

On the diesel board, usually all grounds for LED 8 (pin 5) and LED 7 (pin 39) will be tied together to one ground.  You will get a reading at the points mentioned with your meter.

Guys/Gals if for any reason you find yourself wanting to pull the 40 pin plug, DO NOT PULL BY THE WIRES.  I use a dental (or tool of your choice)  pick to lift each end bit by bit.  I have seen wires pulled out of the 40 pin plug.  Not by me. 

Today I tried the engine reset and factory reset and had no luck with either. I'm tired of working on thins thing so going to let it rest today and resume tomorrow with all the suggestions you have added that I have yet to try. Think I'll let it set next to the hammer one more day, it didn't appear to have gotten the connection last night.   

Last night I noticed the ditch light LED power board (contacts for the springs) had 2 separate smaller contacts (the feeds for each individual LED?) and one large one that I assume is the common as it contacted 2 springs. The red & black wires were reversed in the plug in connectors to the spring block. Thought that was odd? So I took the shell off of another ES44AC I have (no charging lights) and it was a little different inside, but the ditch light connections were identical, same springs, contact board and swapped wires in the connectors. This one's ditch lights were working very well, and they are still working now, even after I messed with it!  

The ditch light spring block fit much tighter on the working ES44AC, so I will be adding something to shim it up and tighten it some as was also suggested above. Thinking maybe some tape and styrene or something? Also, I see why the tech folks don't like that 40 pin connector. I didn't pull it out by the wires, used a small tip screw driver on the ends of the connector. That thing really is small and so are the pins and wires, definitely something for very young eyes.

Thanks again to all for the suggestions, advice and info. You all are really a lot of help to everyone around here. 

Meter the contact pads to the board pins with your continuity meter.  Then power up the board and read your voltage at the pads.  Now you will know if you have voltage going to the LED.  

Marty,

Everything was exactly like you said for the pin numbers.

- I have continuity from the pads through the wires to the 40 pin plug in connector.

- The LEDs work when powered with 5 VDC and a 470 ohm resistor through the springs to the LEDs.

- No voltage to the pads when I plug in the 40 pin connector.

- I also expanded the springs and shimmed the spring bracket with some tape for a tighter fit. 

Not sure what else to look at, suppose the PS3 board is now suspect?

One thing I noticed on my BNSF ES44AC a #20-20285-1 (no charging lights like the MTHRRC version) when running forward the ditch lights are on all the time. I am not so sure the #20-20314-1 MTHRRC version did that even when it was working? The old memory isn't what it used to be, so I can't say for sure?

I do have some other engines with the charging lights, guess I could try swapping a board one of these days if they are compatible? One was the MTHRRC Railking 30-20256-1, the GEVO Premier 20-2986-1 & RK 30-20168-1 and GE Demonstrator 20-20313-1. Hmmm...got more of these than I thought. I am assuming (I know) the PS3 boards would all be the same for these engines? If it's the PS3 board, I guess I will just leave it as is for now.

The ditch lights can be turned on/off in the menu.  If it looks like a suspect board, I would send it to George the board doctor.  That will be cheaper than a new board.  Contact him (GGG) and he will hook you up.

One more thing before GGG, most menu commands get set and then go back to the menu when you press the thumbwheel. When I try to turn on the ditch lights from the menu (Menu button, Control, Ditch Lights) selecting 'On' with the thumbwheel, it just sits there and does nothing, same for auto, off, etc. Never returns like some of the other commands. Wonder if that is a problem too, or could even be the problem?

Thanks for all your help.