My brother has been fooling around with our families 2343 engine with magna traction. He’s saying he’s having a hard time pulling more than 12 post war cars. When I had the engine I know I pulled 32 but some were lighter type cars.
How many cars do you think is reasonable for a 2343 with magna traction to pull on 31 inch curves
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I should mention that he cleaned the wheels and the track and confirmed that both motors are working
Many factors at work here.
1. the condition of the cars being pulled. ( one with stuck wheels is like dragging a brick )
2. how clean are the wheels on the engine? Oil covered wheels will slip,….even with magnetraction.
3. how well is the engine running? Performance issues means less power to pull.
4. Track work,….uneven? Dirty? Grades? Etc, Etc.,….
a few things to ponder before committing to how much the set can or can not pull…
Pat
My 2343 ABA with five aluminum cars always went around the track but it worked hard. Have him put about twenty modern cars with needle point axles and fast angle wheels behind it and see how it does. All the other helps above apply also. I am guessing if it has been maintained it will pull them and more fine.
a couple of my thoughts about the replies (thanks to those that did).
As I mentioned, he has cleaned ALL of the wheels and ALL of the track.
The engine runs smooth as silk. I had it put 32 cars, albeit 1/2 were of the lighter variety. But 12 were the same as my brother is pulling.
I had him check that all wheels are spinning freely.
I had him oil all axles/wheel sets
I had him confirm that the magnetraction is "working" (told him to touch each wheel with a screw driver and see if it sticks - it did)
The track is smooth and flat that he is testing on.
None of the wheel sets are the modern variety. No fast angle, no needle point, etc. They are ALL PW cars from the 1950 catalogue.
I will be going over to his house Tuesday (tomorrow) and we'll look at everything together.
Still, I was/am wondering, what amount of cars should this 2343 easily pull on a flat, level, well cleaned, layout?
as always, thank - walt
My 2343 ABA pulls 8 PW aluminum pass cars with ease.
I have had it pull about 16-20 PW freight cars and only stops due to string-lining or coupler issues.
For reference, I have a Lionel 637 (AKA 2037) that pulls 15 post war cars and that's on O27 track. (and curves)
What kind of track are you using? If the outside rails are not connected, Magnatraction will not work.
@gftiv posted:What kind of track are you using? If the outside rails are not connected, Magnatraction will not work.
"O"
@walt rapp posted:"O"
Well, it needs to be tubular and not something like Gargraves or or MTH real tracks etc.... That said, it probably isn't the track if he is pulling 20 something cars already.
MTH early premier K4 with a bunch of reefers... I about killed a 226E pulling this train..... Found the limits...
A man's got to know his limits, as Harry once said. 
Tom
@PRR8976 posted:A man's got to know his limits, as Harry once said.
Tom
Uh, no. That would be "A man's got to know his limitations."
@gftiv posted:What kind of track are you using? If the outside rails are not connected, Magnatraction will not work.
Not quite. Magnetraction works very well on Atlas O Solid Steel track where the outside rails are not connected. There are a number of factors that affect how magnetraction works. While connecting the outside rails improves the magnetic effect, other factors (like the mass of solid steel as opposed to that of hollow rails) may have more of an impact than connecting the rails.
@gftiv posted:What kind of track are you using? If the outside rails are not connected, Magnatraction will not work.
Yeah, that's totally wrong. MagneTraction even works on GarGraves Stainless Steel track.
I put the cars on the track and push by hand to see if they roll well with the weight of the car on the wheels. A bent axle or bent truck will cause the wheels to rub and drag. A truck that wont turn well will add a lot of drag in a turn.
The smaller the track radius, the harder to pull through turns. Long cars and small radius is a lot of drag also.
If there is too much gunk buildup on the wheels of the cars, it can add drag in the turns. See the Wheels section on my maintenance notes.
I spent a good hour at his house yesterday on this. As already mentioned, EVERYTHING is clean, level, and well connected. All cars are from the 1950 catalogue (our family train).
I didn't reread all of my replies but want to stress that the track is Lionel full 'O' tubular.
I tested the magnetraction by touching each of the 8 wheels with a screw driver to see if the screw driver stuck. I stuck to all 8. BUT.... it wasn't a very strong binding but that might be normal. I need to find another PW engine with magnetraction and compare results to know if ours is weak or normal.
We pulled 13 cars but 15 caused wheel slippage upon startup. 16 cars made it just spin and not move.
He would like it to pull all 17 that he has but he seems ready to accept using a staging yard.
thanks for all of your input
walt
If wheels are slipping on the 2343 power unit, it looks like either too low of friction on the rail /wheel interface or the load is too high. If the wheels and track are clean and magnetic, then the load must be too high.
Did you spin each wheel on the cars (including the 2343 dummies) by hand to make sure there is no wobble or high friction? Most of mine spin at least 5 seconds or more.
You could run just AA and drop the B unit. Could also try running the power unit backwards in the second or third position. That has helped me on occasion to pull more units.
Thanks @TrainCzar - we did numerous tests on each cars to ensure that they were all rolling well.
He is satisfied that we did all that we could. He thinks he will enjoy having a staging yard and keep 1/2 of the cars there and run the other 1/2, and then switch them off.
- walt
Here's my 2 cents FWIW: Sounds like that old engine needs a powered B or another powered A (back to back) if he wants to pull all of the cars. Could probably find either that closely matches the 2343 A on the secondary market.
@Yellowstone Special posted:Here's my 2 cents FWIW: Sounds like that old engine needs a powered B or another powered A (back to back) if he wants to pull all of the cars. Could probably find either that closely matches the 2343 A on the secondary market.
I agree Vern. BUT... my brother's objective when he first started doing this project was to restore what we call the "Family train" to 100% the way it used to be. He's doing a terrific job of that - he even is going as far as buying boxes (not the repro ones though) for each car and then engine set. He and I are rewiring lots of things too (switches, controllers, flag man, coal ramp and conveyor, etc.).
He has bought about 6 cars - but they were all in the 1950 catalogue.
So I don't see him buying more motor power.
Thanks for you comments @Yellowston Special
walt
Surely. 👍 Good luck with his restoration efforts.
Are all Eight wheels spinning. What did he do to determine both motors are working? Put the engine upside down in a cradle. Connect power leads to the pickups and somewhere on the frame. Apply power and make sure both motors start running at the same time. If one is dragging it might cause the other one to spin the wheels trying to pull it. What did he clean the track and wheels with? I use Denatured alcohol. Leaves no oily residue.
Thanks for checking in @Forest .
All 8 wheels are spinning. Confirmed both motors working by holding off the track, apply power to a roller, and see if all 8 wheels turn - they do.
Cleaned the track with denatured just as you do.
IMHO I think the magnetraction is losing some of its "oomph". We literally ran the wheels off of the thing (3 generation of usage) and when I became the holder (not owner) of what we call the family train, I had to get the engine repaired. One motor needed replaced but more importantly in terms of what we are discussing here, all the wheels sets needed replaced because we ran the thing so much that deep grooves were created in teh wheels and it caused shorts.
Maybe the new wheels sets don't have the same magnetic strength as the originals.
That's my personal theory though and it's just that - a theory.
thanks - walt
Is Stainless steel magnetic? Answer: Yes or No
From https://www.thyssenkrupp-mater...nless-steel-magnetic
For stainless steel to be magnetic, it has to meet certain requirements:
All stainless steel metals are a type of steel. That means their chemical composition contains iron. In most cases, stainless steel varieties with iron in their composition are magnetic. If the alloy has an austenitic crystal structure, then it’s not magnetic.
Whether a type of stainless steel is magnetic or not, it can be grouped depending on the type of stainless steel. Some of the typical magnetic stainless steels include:
Charlie
Be careful here, there are alot of factors involved.
Not all alloys that are magnetic, have the same "magnetic attraction". So while some Stainless Steels are magnetic, that doesn't mean they have as high of a level of magnetic attraction as "common steel alloys". Even with different "common steel alloys" the "level of attraction" can vary. It can also be effected by plating material, corrosion and just plain dirtiness.
However with dirty rail the co-effient of friction with the wheels and voltage drop in getting the power to the wheels usually would have a greater effect than the loss of magnetic attraction.
So I gather that @Choo Choo Charlie and @MainLine Steam are saying that "yes Walt, your theory has merits to it. The new black wheel sets might have less magnetic4 force than the original silver ones.". At least that's what I got out of their discussion.
as always, thanks
- walt
Walt
Since you are into engine pulling power you might check out the below link in OGR. The CTT 2004 issue talked about is below bottom.
https://ogrforum.com/...pes-of-track-article
This is the link ot the article in CTT 2004 issue.
https://www.trains.com/ctt/beg...ng-9-types-of-track/
Charlie
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