Pullmor commutator wire loose

The key to any good soldering effort is to be sure you heat the two pieces to be joined thoroughly. They should be as clean as possible as well. Once you have good heat transfer from a clean, newly tinned soldering tool tip, a small addition of new solder should flow easily.

In this case, try to get the job done the first time to alleviate too much heating of the commutator plate.

D&H 65’s advice is spot on.....only thing I’ll add, and he did touch upon this, the area must be clean. If the winding wire still has the colored coating on it, it’s best to strip some of that off so solder will stick to it. The insulating coating on armature windings will not let solder stick to it. Exposing the copper right at the solder joint will make for a better repair....cold solder joints, ie; a blob that looks like a bb sitting on the commutator, will most certainly fail, getting it hot quickly, flowing solder, then quickly remove the heat, is key..........Pat

Are you sure the commutator is not loose on the shaft? I had theat on a modern tmcc fire car

Make sure you use flux on the wire before trying to solder it, especially if you're having issues getting a good joint.

Any flux brand or type recommendations? I think thats what im missing

For electrical work, I use rosin flux, what I have right now is the Deoxit brand.

CAIG RSF-R80 Rosin Soldering Flux

And, of course, unless you are doing sheet metal work, never use acid flux solder for electronics!

Well i gave this a serious go tonight. I removed the commutator from the motor to get at it to clean flux and solder. I tried with great force to disloge it after my solder job and it was rock solid. I reassembed and ran it outside the loco for 20 min no problem. Checked it again still solid and volt meter said good on all 3 plates. Put it all together and loco ran good for less than 10 min and its acting like one pole is dead again! It is drawing more power than my identical 18000 nw j with the same motor so maybe something else is wrong? Just odd this started so suddenly. I might be shopping for a new motor. So frustrating!

If the motor armatures are the same you could try swapping them to see if the problem follows itself to the other engine.

NYCBuffalo posted:

Well i gave this a serious go tonight. I removed the commutator from the motor to get at it to clean flux and solder. I tried with great force to disloge it after my solder job and it was rock solid. I reassembed and ran it outside the loco for 20 min no problem. Checked it again still solid and volt meter said good on all 3 plates. Put it all together and loco ran good for less than 10 min and its acting like one pole is dead again! It is drawing more power than my identical 18000 nw j with the same motor so maybe something else is wrong? Just odd this started so suddenly. I might be shopping for a new motor. So frustrating!

You might want to post up some pics of what your working on there buddy, I’m a little confused by the item numbers your giving us....18004 is a Pacific with a spur gear motor, 18000 is a B6 switcher, not an N&W J .......neither of which share the same motor as 18004....let’s see what your working on....it may require a different approach.....Pat

Guess i should not post after midnight! The problem loco is 18003 a 4-8-4 lackawanna and the good loco is a 8100 nw j. It seems the solder is holding to the wire ok but not to the commutator plate. Maybe my iron is too small to heat the plate enough for a good bond or there is dirt on the plate between the plate and wire that i cant get to to clean. Ill post some pics when i open it again, i need a couple days away from it!

Hey, no worries, not looking to pick on ya, looking to help you out.....now that we’ve clarified the offender, let’s see your work.....take a picture of that stubborn armature and post it up......there will be a solution....you may not be able to see it, but one of us may pick it right out of your photos....take a picture of the armature, the motor housing, inside the cavity, backside of the brush plate.....the wealth of knowledge on here should yield some tips, or tricks to get you going..........Pat

 Again, see if the commutator moves on the shaft. 

You need more heat I suspect to get a good bond on the commutator plate.  I've soldered these on, and I've never had an issue with them coming off.

I think i finally solved it. I carefully removed the wire from the commutator plate and cleaned the plate where the wire attaches both top and botom. I applied flux and put the wire back. I then used my wide solder tip and did just a dab top and bottom. I cleaned the plates then reasembled. So far so good!! Thanks all!!

ps still sounds like a coffee grinder!

NYCBuffalo posted:

ps still sounds like a coffee grinder!

That's that great Pulmore motor sound.   Proper lubrication can help with the sound, but nothing eliminates it.

Glad that finally got it.  When soldering, cleanliness is next to Godliness.   If the materials to join aren't clean, it's very difficult to impossible to get a good bond.

Its the shape of the shell that seems to amplify the sound. I removed the shell from my nw j and southern 4501 mike that are the same setup from the same era and using my ears and a sound meter app they all saund the same. Wierd

Yep, they are noisy, some more than others.  The little vertical motors in small motorized units actually seem noisier than the horizontal models as a rule.

The story continues! Ran the loco for about 20 min tonight no apparent issues. Went to run it again later and no go. I have a flickering light on the motor cover sitting between the brushes (not wired to brushes!) held with a dab of hot glue. Been there for a year before i did my clean and oil job revently when my trouble started. Anyway the hot glue had completely melted and ran down the brush plate into the big hole and formed a plug that held the armature. I pulled out the hot glue and it runs but i see the armature face is pretty black after having just cleaned it yesterday and yes that same armature winding is essentially unsoldered and loose! I used shunted brushes when i put it back together, is that causing the brushes to run hot? Im at a loss but i did put the original brushes back in and it seems to run on lower voltage now. Ill have to extract the armaure again to clean and solder again!

Wow, that engine does not want to play nice for some reason.

Mark in Oregon 

Try measuring the resistance of each section of armature (and to shaft (0 ohm) to ensure they are balanced.  Overheating by a dead short or imbalance from one bypassing many windings, could be causing enough heat to unsolder things. Also look at the field to chassis ground ...loose/rusty at staked heads? Maybe give the heads a hammer whap to reset the connection and refresh pressure. Pressure = less resistance... way less.

Have you checked to ensure the commutator plate doesn't budge as suggested? This throws off brush position to field's timing and heat can be produced. Torque drops(or gains), top end speed drops, power, volt AND amp use increases.

Sticking with correct brushes is always a good idea. Materials used in them does vary.

Burnt black or just messy brush dust?

You need to read this older post on Lionel’s shunted brushes. As far as I know the questions raised by CW were never answered. 

https://ogrforum.com/...lionel-motor-brushes