Rather have gone 3 rail??

Forgot to mention, I model P48  so the 5 ft thing is a non-issue.

Larry

Like many of you, i found my way to 2R O scale in an odd way. I have modeled in nearly every scale. G scale lacked detail parts, decals, seemed toylike. N scale also lacked the ability to fully customize. N scale was great for long unit trains and accurate passenger trains. HO to me seemed to easy. I could walk out and buy nearly everything i wanted with easy access to decals, parts, etc. What made 2 rail so inviting is that it created a level of difficulty that brought out my own creativity. Without the hard work of Malcolm building cabooses and Dan Kohlberg with Paducah decals it wouldn't have been possible. As I model the GM&O I lucked into buying a locomotive collection from a man in California. Over time I was able to get 3 GM&O SD40-2's from him and 5 GP35's! This support made me even more motivated to paint freight cars, scratch build, etc. I stumbled onto two other SD40's. 2 custom ICRR SW9's from Malcolm. 

After going to the Chicago O scale show, though, I realize how tenuous the future of the O scale 2 rail hobby is. Many of the people who make the products we like are getting up in age. There seemed to be alot of people 65 and over and then a smattering of 25-40 year olds. The 40-65 year olds seemed sparse. 

As a young person, i think, at 30 I really enjoy O scale and wish the major suppliers would help us out. Lionel could offer 2 rail trucks as accessories and build in screw holes for Kadee's. MTH is trying, i have some of their drop bottom gons repainted. Weaver's B&O boxcar car and MILW cars are great. Atlas is the backbone if the 2 rail hobby and their support has been difficult to maintain. 

I would never dream of going 3 rail.....

Adam

Yep me too.  UP for me is a secondary road name but some how I ended up having too much.  All in scale wheels.

MTH SD70ACe: UP Heritage, DRGW, MKT, SP, WP, MP, CNW

MTH AC44CW: UP primer gray

MTH ES44AC: UP Yellow

And even some steam

MTH BigBoy

MTH 9000

Sunset FEF

Key Challenger

Michael,

When I first got into O, I never cared too much for the standard UP livery... it seemed boring. Over time, though, that changed. Nowadays, models with the proper UP paint colors... they really look good to my eyes.

One of the coolest sights I've seen, re: real railroading, was seeing a herd of massive UP SD9043MAC's dragging a long empty coal train back towards the U.S. One of my favorite cab styles is on those units, all wearing UP's armor yellow and grey paint. Very, very nice!

I haven't done any nice steam, yet; but, those MTH UP 9000's sure looked real good to me. I always liked the Challengers more than the big boys.

Is your UP AC4400CW, the all grey version with the thin yellow stripe; mine is... UP 6344. A nice model!

I'd like to see MTH make some new EMD models featuring the older North American Safety Cab, with the proper trucks... i.e. MAC's, 70's, 60's... I'd like that!

Rick

quote:

Not really. (I came from 3RS to 2R…the extra work I had to do became obvious that I might as well do that work in 2R)

Dave, you summed up my feelings almost to a tee. 

At the last of my 3-rail layout experiment, I dabbled in the Hi-rail philosophy and looked at the 3RS philosophy.  Like you, I just couldn't see putting out all that work and STILL have that center rail to deal with.  So I downsized a bit:  I went with S scale. 

S scale is a great size.  Really nice stuff is available.  The only shortcoming with S scale isn't a problem with the scale, but a problem with me: I'm just about burned-out with model trains.  I'm still in the process of taking a lengthy sabbatical as I type.

I mastered the art and science of practicing law, the skill of flying airplanes, and many woodworking skills, as well as succeeding in animal husbandry in producing superior livestock, and now I'm back to playing with trains.  I don't care how many rails the trains run on, but all of the equipment is frustrating in its antiquity.  Airplanes are that way - they still use magnetos instead of laser ignition or even solid state ignition, but that's partly because of government intervention.  Maybe I'm just tired of learning new skills, but if I could just keep something running with a moderate sized layout, without breaking something, I would be satisfied.

 I find some guys here take the fun out of two rail. There are a bunch of three railers lerking that are waiting to do the same because they never went with two rail.

 I don't regret going two rail. I have bought some three rail track to add a upper loop to run stuff that has not been converted. The curves stink and won't go together smoothly. The switches spark and engines stall. I may just trash the whole idea. It solidified my decision that two rail was the way to go.

 I run DCS in two scales and it works great. You have to understand it fully to hook it up in complex situations. Error messages tell you that something's wrong.

 The (3 rail) track never bothered me before this. The big GAPS, couplers and flanges drove me nuts. I never saw the gaps in any other before looking at O scale. It was embarrassing to the scale. Engines on 31" curves are ridiculous. They should be scrapped.

I neverr did animal husbandry, but did all that other stuff.  Light aviation is dying, but I will be airborne behind old tractor magnetoes every day from now until croak time.  O scale may be dying too, but I am going to keep doing that as well.

not to get too far off the beaten track, but did you know that operations at my local airport are at 50% of those of 1977?  If you factor in population increase it is 37%.

i wonder if all this is dying because we spend ao much time with these iPads?

I think private aviation is lagging because FAA makes it too expensive.  Young people who would enter the field don't have funds to do what we used to do.  Perhaps all the bells and whistles promoted in toy (model) trains reach the same apex.  Most of us are perfectionists, but if the participants would be just be satisfied to impress the youngsters who are thrilled by it, it would survive.  But, the manufacturers have to keep up innovation to keep sales thriving.  That takes the fun out of it.  Instead of just having an efficient running layout and stock, we have to add the latest bells and whistles.

Interesting statement, "Most of us are perfectionists". Earlier today, I was wondering how many in this area of the hobby(2-rail fans) were ever called "anal", because of their specific need/compulsion for a certain look?

BTW, perfectionists are said to be compulsive personality types. Maybe, that is why fulfillment/absolute satisfaction eludes some of us. Almost impossible to achieve... perfection!

Rick

I agree Joe, since switching I have never been happier...granted I am still laying my track, but with hand laying it takes time and I really enjoy the process-not to mention all the detail I get to incorporate in to it.  I absolutely love 2 rail...it just looks so much better and really "feels right" for me. 

Chris

My switch to 2 rail happened over a few years but it was a logical one. I love track. I really love hand laying it. I played with stud rail and have a fascination and appreciation for outside 3rd rail. I like the variety that is offered in 3 rail but being a track person wanted the track to look more real. There is no inside 3rd rail track that looks real. There is definitely none that looks good enough for me, regardless of who has put whatever level of detail into weathering or ballasting or who is using it on their layout. That's not to say that there aren't many fine 3 rail layouts. It's just not the look I want. That led me to stud rail. I was able to conceal the studs between the ties of 2 rail track and is was by far the most realistic 3 rail I've ever seen. It did require more effort than just laying 2 rail track though and slider pickups weren't always easy to adapt to some engines. Since I was using code 148 rail, that still left me with a wheel flange issue. Specifically at switches. I didn't like the flange look and decided to convert to scale wheels. At this point, with scale wheels, and Kadee couplers, I was having trouble trying to justify having the center rail? Creating slider pickups and laying stud rail is far more work than rewiring the random engine. Keep in mind I have always been a DCC person and don't want DCS or Legacy so for me the only reason to retain a 3rd rail was so I could say I had one. That actually made it more difficult for me to run 3 rail.

I originally got into O for the size and level of detail that could be seen. It was that size that led me to my love of hand laying track and it was that love of making track look real that led me away from 3 rail. My story may be different than others and I may put priorities on aspects of the hobby that others don't. I appreciate any technique and at the end of the day I just like trains. This is my evolution in the scale and it ultimately led me to the logical conclusion that I needed to be in 2 rail. I've never done anything easy though. If I had a giant basement layout I might be doing things differently though.

My Father bought me my first toy train set in 1941 (just before Pearl Harbor).

I discarded that 2 Rail MARX wind-up train when I got my first 3 Rail electric train set in 1946.  Fast forward 67 years.  I kept my pre-war Gilbert American Flyer "0" Gauge 3/16" to the foot scale train set.   If so desired, it could even run the largest three rail layout in the USA at Paterson, New Jersey.

www.njhirailers.com

Young people who would enter the field don't have funds to do what we used to do

Back when I was taking lessons in the early 70s, the cost to fly with an instructor here was $14/hr and $10 solo.  I forget the price of AVGAS, maybe $0.75/gal.

My instructor said when he learned to fly, if they got low on gas they'd land at a farm and ask the farmer for a gallon or 2

From the few 2-railers I have talked to, none of them would say they were going to convert to 3-rail unless it was tongue-in-cheek.  The 2 comments I always hear have to do with the 3rd rail and the huge wheel flanges.  It seems the flanges keep getting bigger.  Here's a K-Line 2-rail passenger car truck I bought and installed 3-rail wheels on from OK Engines.  Notice how small the flanges look:

Maybe it's that they're not blackened, but they don't look as large as the pizza-cutters.  I recall measuring them when I got them, but don't recall how much smaller, if any, they are.  They run fine over 3-rail RCS track/switches, I'd like to try them on 2-rail Atlas track some time to see how they do.

I switched from 3 rail to 2 rail and really have found a new level of satisfaction in 2 rail. I have not found 2 rail to be difficult, but some things are a bit more time consuming. As someone posted on another forum, "It is a hobby, not a horserace." I'm in no hurry but am really enjoying the ride.

If I ever were to go to 3 rail again, it would be to the extreme toy train side of things for its charm, not hi-rail or 3 rail scale. The center rail sticks out like a sore thumb to me at this point.

Since we are on the 2- rail forum, allow me to point out that the K-Line truck is a shortened version of a Chinese passenger car truck.  The ones supplied by OK are more accurate for North American cars.  I think MTH has made efforts at better accuracy if you need real coil springs.

opinion.

If I ever were to go to 3 rail again, it would be to the extreme toy train side of things for its charm, not hi-rail or 3 rail scale.

Christopher

Why not do both?  Several people have multiple hobbies, and going extreme toy rail is a whole lot cheaper, than, let's say, buying a classic car.

He's got that bamboo cultivation business on the side with an eye on taking over most of MD....

Actually, THIS alludes to what I consider the primary advantage of O2R over O3R...the potential to use DCC.  In doing so, there are electronic switching devices that automatically make polarity changes in the trackwork as a train moves through a reverse loop or a wye. 

But that's just the tip of the 'berg' as far as I'm concerned. Having standards to which the entire manufacturing industry subscribes and participates in when it comes to a command control system is, far, far and away the BIG ENCHILADA of O2R.  This incessant bickering and wasted spending on incremental digital control improvements between the O3R sumo's...many, if not most, of which 'improvements' () put your past investments into the proverbial dumper, and/or justify higher and higher prices of the basic motive power...is just plain, well, ...STUPID! 

Which is THE reason why I have never embraced the miasma of O3R command control systems.  But, of course, that's just MHO. 

My how nice it would be to have the O3R industry leaders be able to offer ALL of their motive power simply as "DCC ready",  let the current, well-established, happily-providing DCC industry provide the elements of the standardized control/sound systems, and spend their investment resources/cash/time on dies/tooling/finishing of new products...locos, cars, trackwork, accessories, etc..

"Selling all of my PS1 engines...going to PS2.0!"   (Ka-ching)

"Selling all of my TMCC engines...going to Legacy!"  (Ka-ching)

"Selling all of my DCS engines...going to TMCC/Legacy!"  (Ka-ching)

"Selling all of my conventional engines...going to Lega-Proto Commandimonium!" (Ka-ching)

Selling all of my O2R 'conventional' engines...going to DCC O2R engines.   

 NOT!

 (sigh)

At the end of the day the hobby is what you make it and as such it should be fun, now if that means 2 rail so be it, or 3 rail so be it.  It all just comes down to what you like and what you want, there is not a right or wrong here....just different.

Chris

I'm one of the rare "birds". I migrated from 2 rail to 3 rail after many years in 2 rail. I became burned-out and tired of building or converting almost all of my motive power. And this is when there were still a number of O scale kit mfg. in business..i.e. All Nation, Locomotive Workshop, Central Locomotive Works, and others. I still have a lot of scale detail parts from Precision Scale, P&D, and wheel sets, but am too busy catalog them.

The visual impact of 2 rail, O scale is breath taking...but the effort to attain that impact is a higher price(time/$$$) than I want to pay at my age (69).

I left 3 rail O when I was 6 years old because of the 'unrealistic' 3 rails. Went to HO, it was much cheaper then and my allotted 4x8 feet made for a bigger railroad. 

Now over 50 I ignore the 3 rails and love it for what that 3rd rail does for you. 3 rail has it's issues too.....but as stated the hobby is personal choices and the ease of O 3r is mine right now.......although I admire the 2 rail O scale person from my 'pure scale' days!