Replacing Incandescent with LED in Passenger Cars

Another advantage with the LED string lighting, in addition to the even light and absence of hot spots, which LOS' video reminded me of, is the constant level of lighting when running conventional; the lighting doesn't increase or decrease with the throttle. 

There is still another advantage.  Historically, persons who rode Lionel passenger cars went blind from the constant flickering anf flashing.  With LED lighting, you can install a large capacitor which will keep the lights shining brightly, resulting in happier passengers who will willingly pay double your current fares to ride.

Good details on the various circuits.

I have tinkered in the past with simple circuits many years back in some cars which still work well but have the occasional flicker.

I have been wondering about the idea of using batteries in a head end car and running jumpers through the passenger trains to power the LED light strips. They stay coupled all the time and the way my layout is set up the loop around the ceiling you do not see the outside of the cars when they turn and they are on wide wide radius loops.

The added advantage is that you would not have any drag from the extra center rail pickups in each car.

In the HO Rapido passenger cars each car has a LED light strip and magic wand to turn the lights on and off sensor in the roof. The button batteries last a long long time.

Perhaps a 9 volt rechargeable battery in a head end car might work, or pack of triple AAA or double AA batteries??

I want to tinker with this also as a way for using LED light strips with batteries for a LED lit up reflective vest for being more visible for riding a bicycle at night.

Anyone tinker with LED lighting with batteries?

I still have a large fleet of passenger cars to upgrade and the amount of time to solder up the suggested circuits for a large # of cars seems daunting.

Hi

This question is the electronics gurus.  I am still new at this so please forgive me if I sound off the wall. If it LED is too bright why not not use a shorter strip of LED instead of 18 inches make it 15 inches? I just took apart my Baggage Car and I am trying out the GRJ roll your own special. Before I me a mess of things on my car I wanted to ask because no one asked in all the thread I have read on this topic, o.k. maybe I missed one or two.

You can just equip one car with rollers and some really large capacitors, that will provide flicker-free lighting for a lot of cars.  My 330uf caps provide excellent flicker resistance for one car, so something like a 2200uf cap would do it for a string of cars.

Of course, if you want to have tethers, you can also just run track power to all the cars and regulate the LED power individually in each car.

As far as all the time wiring up components, here's a shortcut.

LED Constant Current Lighting Regulator, 2 Pcs

Thanks again to Gunny and Stan. I'm able to run two MTH Blue Goose engines each pulling 18 - 19 cars and only draw about 4 amps and that includes the power needed for lighted track lockons and some lighted accessories hooked to the track. LED's are a boon for the model railroader!  Joe

First off, the difference between 18" and 15" will be minimal.  Also, making the strips much shorter, you end up with uneven lighting.  One of the benefits of LED lighting is the even lighting.

Kris, also note on the pics I posted you can also dim the lights by coloring the LEDs with magic marker or even thin paint. To me even the warm white LEDs look more like fluorescent lighting than incandescent. OK for streamliners maybe but too white for heavyweights. I used a red marker because thats all I had but orange might be better. These LED strips are dirt cheap so experiment.

Pete

Thanks to everyone for their input on this project.  A special thanks to gunrunnerjohn for his circuit and diagrams, RailRide for his sample circuit photo, and Stan2004 for his great explanations.  Stan2004 hits the right amount of detail in his information that remains pertinent to my questions and helps me move forward and I sincerely appreciate that.

Here is link to my video on the project that I did based on everyone's input here.  Thanks again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3H1Fx9Hv6s

Deleted.

kj356, flashing LED safety vests powered by batteries have been around for a long time.  What about them attracts your attention?

Thanks for the replies to my questions. Here are a few more questions.

The Vista Dome looks like a nightmare any suggestion or pictures on how you folks handle that problem. MTH Product Product Number: 30-67061.

This is a question for Pingman or anyone else . In dealing with frosted windows and opaque silhouettes I have the 1950's Morris & Essex cars that I would love to redo any suggestions. I already have link save to my Bookmarks on hooking it up just wanted to get advise or more group wisdom on it.

Roll your own verse manufactured. I agree and disagree with you but each to own. Soldering is not fun with these small parts but it is a learning process for us rookies. John and others make everything look so nice and neat. Not as easy as I though but that is for another day.

Dome cars are a custom hack as a rule.  It also depends on the specific design of the dome, some are easier than others.  I try to find a spot for a piece of the strip, then wire to the lower strip using black #30 solid wire-wrap wire to hide it.  I also have yellow and white wire if that is a better match.  The connections from the dome are just paralleled with the lower level strip.

As Inspector Columbo would say one more question.  On the observation cars the red marker lights which glue would the group recommend for attaching the LEDs?

I think a few types will work but I like Canopy Glue because it dries clear and plenty strong for the job. Used on installing glass also, real or plastic.

Pete

I use that Pete uses if possible.  If I need more strength, I use the CA gap filling adhesive.  If I use CA, I apply it with a toothpick to get very little on the joint.

No idea what that is, all I know is that the cars look great, no fuss, and at a great price.

I do not run conventional, only DCS, Legacy, and TMCC.

IMHO for the one time cost of an MTH DCS system, how simple it is to set up, and the low cost of MTH Rail King and RK Imperial compared to $300 LC+ engines, its a no brainer.

Better to pay $450 for an MTH PS3 ABA F3 set then $300 for a single conventional LC+ engine.

If your gonna add the expense and fiddle faddle of all that work just to give passenger cars under conventional operation that kind of lighting, save yourself the trouble and cost and just go MTH DCS and LED bulbs and be done with it.

"Hotspot" means that the lighting is concentrated in the area of the bulb, rather than even throughout the car.  It is especially noticeable on lower-priced cars that use 2 or 3 bulbs, rather than on cars that use many small bulbs.

The ribs or frame (or whatever you call it) around the windows of an observation car are quite narrow - probably too narrow for the standard LED strips.  If you want the LEDs to be non-intrusive you might consider fabricating your own LED strip with individual surface-mount LEDs which come in widths of 0.02", 0.03", 0.05", etc. but this would be a lot of tedious assembly work.  Another idea is to use plastic "side-glow" fiber optic cable.  These also come in various diameters but the key feature is they "leak" light along the length.  So you illuminate it at the end with a bright white LED and the entire cable glows.  This would then be glued to the ribs above.

Also, many CA glues will cloud plastic windows/canopies as the fumes evaporate.  Try canopy glue or clear-drying cement specific for this purpose.

Stan, it looks like you'd need a fairly powerful light source for the side illuminated fiber.

Thank you one and all about the Vista Dome car. I will look into it and study all your suggestion and report back with my findings. Next question which glue would you use fasten the electronics to the roof of the passenger cars? FYI the baggage car is almost done and it worked. This is my first electronics project and I am shocked that it worked, a big thank you for everyone for help and explains.

I use a double stick foam to hang the electronics. the way this holds I don't see it ever coming off.

Ray

Before you button up the baggage car, take some quick pics showing how the wiring and components were installed.  Also, if it's a PW LIONEL baggage car, what did you use for getting the center rail p/u; or, did you use a battery or tether?

Let me muddy the waters by asking a question:  AT night, were the prototype dome interiors lit?  Or were they left dark so passengers could see outside?

To be truly prototypical, you'd probably have to have light in some windows and darken others.  I seriously doubt they would force all the passengers to sit in the dark.

Dear Pingman

The baggage car is part of the MTH Product Product Number: 30-67061 set. It is not done yet but I will be more than happy to post pictures of it. The only two things I would do differently is the following:

1) Do not make the GRJ special roll your only in advance, make it custom to each car.

2) I hooked up the ceramic fuse to the roller base. In the future I will hook it up in the car base where MTH has a buss bar from the front and back roller pick up inside the car. Does anyone know what type of crimp size terminal MTH used to hook up to the roller?

John, we're talking about a dome.  There are no partitions, so it has to be all dark or all light. 

I use a low value PTC between the rollers, no fuses to replace if I have a derailment.  For MTH Premier cars, I hide them in the wiring in the base between the two pickups.

As far as baggage cars, most of the MTH cars are already lighted, so they already have pickups.  For Lionel, you can usually buy the parts to add a pickup or two.

OK, I light the domes when I populate them, I like that look.  Remember, it's your RR, you can manage it anyway you like.   Of course, my original comment applies, if you really wanted to be prototypical, you'd have to deal with the varied lighting in all the other passenger compartments.

OK, I light the domes when I populate them,

That's why your passenger revenue is so low.

My RR doesn't depend on passenger revenue to sustain itself, it has maintenance income.

You win.

Kris, thanks for the reply; looking forward to the pictures.

John, thanks for clarifying the MTH baggage car is already lit.  I had to replace a damaged roller assembly on a LIONEL PW car, so I'm pretty sure I know the p/n I'll need and how to install it.

I'm just waiting for the 22uh chokes to show up from Digi-Key to do a 5-car set.

Of course, my original comment applies, if you really wanted to be prototypical, you'd have to deal with the varied lighting in all the other passenger compartments.

You raise an interesting point, GRJ.  Aside from an MTHobservation car and an MTH dining car, all passenger cars I've seen with interior details are set up as coaches.  No rooms as would be on a sleeper. 

Guess you've never seen a Pullman car.

I've seen many that say "Pullman," but never before one with interior compartments.  Oh well, as Eve said, "There's always a first time."  Thanks

I have some other sleeper cars too, but they're in boxes and buried, this was the easiest one to get to.

Thanks.  I learned something today.  Now I can sleep relaxed; the day wasn't a total waste.  (It's cold here in NoVa).

Here is the second time. Sleep well.