Resolved! DZ-1008A Switched Track Power Control Question

The relay is not switching power from white wire to gray wire when the switch is thrown either way.  Putting the machine on the other side isn't going to change that.  I tried changing the leads at the ASC, what this does is throw the switch straight when I push curve on the Cab1 and the LEDs are reversed, thinking that might help the relay to operate and I could then change the sw machine position as you say.  No change in power supplied to the white and gray wires. The white stays powered.  I think I got a bad 1008.  Probably the smart thing to do is try it on my other switch I am going to use a relay on, a single LH.  If it works there, I think my next step is to try to switch the wires from 1008 to L & R on the sw machine.  If it doesn't work there, I'll wait for a new one (actually 2).  Thanks again. 

William,

Its not suppose to switch from the white to the gray. Its the other way around, from

gray to white. When the relay is idle you should have power on the gray and

no power on the white. When the relay operates, the gray should not have power and

the white should.

If you are going to disconnect the DZ1008 from the switch. It can be

tested manually. If you have an old Lionel transformer, connect the

red wire to the "A" post and black wire to the "U" post. Set the

transformer to about 12v. Then momentarilly touch the green wire to

the red wire. You should hear a "click" if the relay operates. If not, then you are

right, you got a "bum" relay. If  you want to test a little further. Get a test lamp

and another power source. Connect one side of the test lamp to the white wire

from the DZ1008 and the other side of the lamp to the power source. Plus or minus,

doesn't make any difference. Connect the opposit side of the power source

to the blue wire from the DZ1008. Now, when you touch the green wire to the

black, and the relay "clicks" the lamp should light.

Good luck

Joe

Ok cool.  I'll check it out and see what happens.  Thank you again. 

The DZ 1008 works as you said.  Note -on the last last step, touch the green wire to red wire = A power.  If I hold it, it is switching power from gray to white wire as you said and then back to gray when the green wire is taken off.  I'm thinking I need to switch the leads from DZ1008 to sw machine to make this happen.  Which I will try a little later.     

An interesting point is that after wiring all the switches, I had 4 that switched opposite of the others.  All were wired the same, but 4 would switch curve when pushing straight on Cab1.  I solved this by changing the leads at the ASC and changing the LEDs.  This switch is one of them.  So is the other switch I am going to use the other DZ1008 on.  Be interesting to see if I need to switch the leads from relay to sw machine on that one.  

I just checked my layout and the 4 switches I needed to change at the ASC are all RH!  I think we are on to something.     

Go ahead and try that. Its been a while since I went through this. But it

seems that the swap didn't work 4 me. So I ended up rotating the switch

motors on the RH switches. One other advantage to that, is, in the future

when touble shooting, I know the green sets the switch "through" and yellow

sets the switch "out" If I'm under the table, I don't have to remember which kind

of switch I'm dealing with. I don't know why the switch motors are pre-wired

now, but since the colors are "fixed", it seem to add confusion to the mix.

Again good luck

Joe

It Works!!!  Changing the leads from DZ1008 to the sw machine got the relay to operate as intended.  Then I changed the leads on the slaved sw machine to match the master with the relay.  At this point, the switches were opposite-would curve when push straight on Cab1- but changing the leads into the ASC solved that.  Now both crossovers switch correctly and the relays are both changing power as intended. The only snag is the red LEDs don't stay lit when switch is in curve position on the doctored pair-the greens do when straight.  I think I know how to fix that.  Now I know why they changed from screws to wires on the sw machines.  Piggybacking the relay to a RH machine won't operate the relay-the leads are opposite that way.  I didn't have to change the position of the sw machines.

Joe-you are my Bro.  Thanks a million!!!  John, I hope I didn't hijack your thread.  Hopefully we both learned something here.  I know I did.

Here's a pic of my Burlington GP9 crawling through the crossover as it should.  Sweet!!! 

William, no problem with hijacking, I'm learning too.  In my case the switch/relay combination work perfectly until I attach the power leads to the two switch center rails.  I have some ideas to try this weekend and will report the outcome.

William,

Glad to see that its all working out. I passed on the push-buttons cause I

am using signals to indicate the switch positions. In this config, the LEDs

only light when the ASC is activated. I was planning to experiment with the

buttons at a later time. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

Joe

I want my LEDs activated on the dbl xover because I need to know how the sw are thrown at a glance.  I don't want to run over a wrong thrown sw on this bad boy.  That goes for all of them I guess, but esp this one with the relays.

I am working on reducing my derailments and shorts.  The LEDs don't hurt for that.  Neither does moderation during operation.  I'm working on that as well...

Thanks again.  I love figuring this stuff out.  I actually called RCS to check on my last relay and talked to Steve and told him about the LH oriented nature of the DZ1008-sw machine relationship.  He was intrigued and said he was going to let Zman in on it and this thread on the forum.  Another notch in the toolbelt.  What's next?!       

William, this is good information because I plan to install a double crossover too.

BTW: You caught the mistake I made on manually testing the relay. That last sentence
should be "touch the green wire to the red wire" not the black wire. Sometimes the
mind inserts things that you didn't type but ment to.

This problem has been resolved.  The DZ1008A was bad.  Dennis Zander replaced it and the power switching works fine now as it does on my other three switches.

A lot of them are bad.  They need to be checked on your bench before installing.  I'm glad you got it figured out.  I just opened another can of worms today.  Another 15 min job which lasted all afternoon and still isn't resolved.  It has to do with a TMCC upgrade, but I will spare you the details. 

Glad it worked out for you John. I spoke with Dennis Zander the other day about a noticeable hum in some of the relays. He recommended operating them at 14vac(I was running 17vac) My layout is powered by bricks. Turns out I had an extra brick from my Lionel Z transformer which allowed me to dial the voltage down. I ran a 14 gauge buss dedicated for the relays. I jumped one of the humming relays over to the buss and 

wa-la, no more humming.