Return Policies - be careful

Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable.  A special order or built to order item is different than a stock item in my opinion.

I have ordered a couple of engines over the years but upon arrival my tastes had moved on.  Took the haircut and sold on the bay.  Stuff happens. 

The deal I have with my LHS is for something brand new that I buy is this: if I return it for some reason without opening the box, I get store credit.

About a year ago I bought a modern Lionel scale Hudson, believing it would run on 031 curves. Turned out it only runs on 054 curves or wider, and could not run on my layout. I was able to return it, get store credit, and immediately used that credit to buy an LC+ Erie Camelback that runs great on my sharp curves,  and I love it. Everyone is happy. Arnold

It's simple....BUYER BE AWARE....remember that, and you will have no problems in the future....

Yup: CAVEAT EMPTOR.

Train Nut posted:

Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable.  A special order or built to order item is different than a stock item in my opinion.

I tend to agree; after all, a sale is something that entails reasonable expectations for both sides, not just the buyer. The item was not "defective".

The new era BuiltToOrder (BTO) trend appears to have more business/contract complications; but more so between dealer and Importer.  The importer advertises product w/ various features and details.  Customers order based on that info.  IMHO, the BTO QUANTITY LIMIT gives the appearance of a special or limited item with a higher Quality expectation.  Arguably the higher priced items also add, maybe falsely, to the expectations of higher quality of the product and its advertised details.  But the reality is the only difference from years past is that the quantity made is tied to actual pre-order amounts w/ very little, if at all production overflow.  Problem is when a product falls short of its actual and/or perceived advertising, especially when the catalog's fine print state items or details are subject to change often without notice.  It's here where the dealers often unfairly take the bullet in sales, customer ire, return expense and time & money lost.

Many love to post that their dealer doesn't require a pre-order deposit and give a standard pre-order discount off MSRP.  The dealer bears the entire financial risk in this situation.  You might feel a moral obligation to stand by your verbal order, but since you did not pay any money/consideration there is no "legal" contract by either party to complete the order.  FWIW, the dealer that charges $1 or just 1 penny for a pre-order creates a valid/enforceable contract with the customer.  Reputable dealers return policies are readily available.  You might have more leeway if your relationship is long and established, but I could not criticize a dealer that offered full store credit on a non-defective return.  Curious to see this mfr/dealer/customer dynamic change as we see the gradual mfr direct to buyer move.

I don't envy the modern model train dealer with all the various manufacturing issues with quality, minimum order quantities and probably more so timing of shipments combine that w/ the modern overhead involved in running a small business and the general practice of window shopping to then order online/mail-order from a mega-dealer.

Having been burnt on things that weren't as advertised, I no longer buy until I see and operate. I may have missed out on some items, but I think I saved a lot of aggravation.

Keystone posted:

Many love to post that their dealer doesn't require a pre-order deposit and give a standard pre-order discount off MSRP.  The dealer bears the entire financial risk in this situation.  You might feel a moral obligation to stand by your verbal order, but since you did not pay any money/consideration there is no "legal" contract by either party to complete the order.  FWIW, the dealer that charges $1 or just 1 penny for a pre-order creates a valid/enforceable contract with the customer. 

As a teacher of contract law, I can tell you that is not the case. A promise to buy something, as part of a contract, may be enforceable regardless of whether any payment has been made. 

Moreover, except in the case of an option contract, the payment or purported payment of a trivial sum like a penny ("nominal consideration") has no effect on enforceability of contracts.

A dealer could quite readily hold you to a promise to buy a preorder, assuming that the terms of sale were structured such that both parties were obliged upon placement of the order. Whether any dealer would want to do that, or could retain their customers with that kind of policy, is another matter.

Local Walmarts will take back most returns.  Ebay and Amazon dealers will take back most returns for fear of bad feed back.  For most of the rest, one needs to find out their return policy.  Sorry to hear about the train store not taking back your train.

Charlie

Having purchased an item, there is no legal basis, as far as I'm aware,  for insisting or expecting a retailer take it back unless it doesn't meet the description or functionality advertised.  Try returning a house after you've bought it, or an automobile. Extreme example.  You're not going to get much satisfaction. 

Barring non-functionality, I think the dealer is in the right to insist it's yours.  Some dealers may accept returns, but in our cottage industry there is usually a restocking fee and store credit only, when the return is due to a change of heart on the part of the purchaser.

I offer that if said item is a special order; the store has done you a favor by "fronting you the money" on their dime with a BTO/Special  order. I would agree you did make a deal to buy and keep on a special order......

Professor Chaos posted:

Keystone posted:

Many love to post that their dealer doesn't require a pre-order deposit and give a standard pre-order discount off MSRP.  The dealer bears the entire financial risk in this situation.  You might feel a moral obligation to stand by your verbal order, but since you did not pay any money/consideration there is no "legal" contract by either party to complete the order.  FWIW, the dealer that charges $1 or just 1 penny for a pre-order creates a valid/enforceable contract with the customer. 

As a teacher of contract law, I can tell you that is not the case. A promise to buy something, as part of a contract, may be enforceable regardless of whether any payment has been made. 

Forgot that ever-present promissory estoppel.

Moreover, except in the case of an option contract, the payment or purported payment of a trivial sum like a penny ("nominal consideration") has no effect on enforceability of contracts.

A dealer could quite readily hold you to a promise to buy a preorder, assuming that the terms of sale were structured such that both parties were obliged upon placement of the order. Whether any dealer would want to do that, or could retain their customers with that kind of policy, is another matter.

"A dealer could quite readily hold you to a promise"  Could and readily real world actions are arguably debatable.  As you stated or alluded, unfortunately the reality to any dealer that has to regularly/easily/willingly pursue legal action in possibly various jurisdictions against those who fail to complete their pre-order is likely not going to be in the model train business for the long term.

Buyers Remorse- be careful

I had this happen recently with a great dealer and OGR advertiser. I didn't think I had ordered a engine ( a limited run) and he said I had. I thought I had just talked about it - not ordered.  However I have been pretty sick with Lyme disease and I very likely could be mistaken. 

The solution - I agreed if he couldn't move it in a month, hit my credit card and ship it to me. Yes I got lucky and he sold the piece. 

I believe you gave the man your word to purchase the engine, you should have no expectation of a return nor should you bash them for sticking to their end of your order. Some have expressed their dealer will give them store credit for returning a non-opened item. That is generous and should not be the expectation.

Talk to anyone who owns a hobby shop in private and get their side of the business - I can't believe we still have so many in business. 

Paul

Hope you feel better Paul.