reverse loop plans for fastback

Though most tracks are similar, you should state what type of track you will be using.

Hi Dougie,

Do you want circles or teardrops?

Here's circles (attached)

Circles take up less space, but they have that "S" curve and limit the length of your trains more than teardrops.

Just 3 inches of extra length will allow a car-length of straight track to relieve the S-curve, which is much better for train operation and appearance. These arrangements also minimize the required table width/depth.

So for fastback 3 inches in the length would help??

moonman..For this year I am doing a top reverse loop on each end for the top level.  The one side will be the North pole outside the loop and the other "Who Ville" inside the loop.  bottom will be a small winter village with woodmen's and a siding or two..

Dougie fresh posted:

So for fastback 3 inches in the length would help??

Not just for FasTrack. Adding a straight to any "S" curve allows trains to run smoother with fewer problems and they look better doing it. Going in one direction through a curve and then going in the opposite direction after the curve puts strain on couplers and can pull cars off the track, especially light cars in long trains. It's just something to avoid if possible. It's bad enough anywhere on a layout, but it's particularly bad in reversing loops because a lot of the train is still going through the loop and tight loops strain cars the way it is.

What will the reversing loops do that a dogbone won't? A dogbone lets you run a longer train or multiple trains easier. Just saying....

Mmmmm well the layout is 8x4x8..its in a "L" with equal sides.   I thought if I did the reverse loop I would make the back corner easier and the elevated track not as wide......What would that look like?

Then the bottom track would run under the top in a tunnel till it came out in the center 4X4..

This is how I do it... with minimal "fitter" sections.

Something like this, assuming you want to use as much space as possible. You could shrink the ends by removing the straight pieces. Basically, both types use about the same space. The main difference is the turnouts vs the dual straights. I'm not pushing for either one. I myself vacillated between the reversing loops and dogbone on a design I was working on before I completely changed my approach for a permanent Christmas layout. I was leaning toward the dogbone because I like the idea of 2 trains passing each other on the straights making it look like they are going in different directions.

So, you are not going to do the spiral this year?

Dougie,

Daz has the teardrop shape and ACE's is the compromise. Sorry to hear you gave up on the mountain spiral.

it really comes down to what shape that you want or need (first question) for the buildings.

(Daz) he would run the r-loop into a single track behind the tree. Check out his 2015 layout The base stays the same 3- 4' x 4' in an L

Daz's that the idea but its 3 4x4 one in the corner and the other two on each end..  I like your idea and Moonmans..Just trying to figure out how to get two trains on 2 tracks going there???  I will have two levels..

Dougie fresh posted:

Daz's that the idea but its 3 4x4 one in the corner and the other two on each end..  I like your idea and Moonmans..Just trying to figure out how to get two trains on 2 tracks going there???  I will have two levels..

My example "L" is 4x4x4, it's just shown as a single tabletop, the grid is 5" squares.

I use DCS, so running 2 trains on the same track is pretty easy, though they do have to be watched to make sure one doesn't overtake the other. You might not be able to do that, so maybe the loop2loop is the way to go. It does use less space without the 2 side-by-side tracks. If the loops will be large enough for the trains you run, then it is probably the better option for you.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Dougie fresh posted:

Daz's that the idea but its 3 4x4 one in the corner and the other two on each end..  I like your idea and Moonmans..Just trying to figure out how to get two trains on 2 tracks going there???  I will have two levels..

My example "L" is 4x4x4, it's just shown as a single tabletop, the grid is 5" squares.

 

daz,

Your top length is 26.5 squares or 132.5", not 96".

Dougie fresh posted:

Daz's that the idea but its 3 4x4 one in the corner and the other two on each end..  I like your idea and Moonmans..Just trying to figure out how to get two trains on 2 tracks going there???  I will have two levels..

Dougie,

Ok, O31 doesn't fit inside of O36 naturally. Using 2 tracks on top eats up some center space and leaves only 32" for the tree in the center.

Here's 2 tracks elevated at 8". The road bed is a really tight fit.

Carl, you're right, sorry. In my hurry to comment, I forgot that my layout is going to be a little longer on the one end and I can see where shrinking it won't leave much room for trains to pass each other in the corner. So, that idea may be a moot point. FWIW, here's a corrected version.

And for the record, I much prefer your example with 2 levels and reversing loops on top of each other. I was just trying to show what the dogbone would look like and have no real idea what the end goal is, especially when it comes to how many trains will be run at the same time.

Carl: thats the winner.  Only I will have one track on top and the other on the bottom going through tunnels.  I won't be putting a tree in the center this year.  Will do a small village or such........thanks..

Moonman posted:

Dougie fresh posted:

Daz's that the idea but its 3 4x4 one in the corner and the other two on each end..  I like your idea and Moonmans..Just trying to figure out how to get two trains on 2 tracks going there???  I will have two levels..

Dougie,

Ok, O31 doesn't fit inside of O36 naturally. Using 2 tracks on top eats up some center space and leaves only 32" for the tree in the center.

Here's 2 tracks elevated at 8". The road bed is a really tight fit.

 

In looking at this I can read the turns and the 10" straights, but I can not make out the "8.03?? what length of track is that??  On the top loop it shows 9 of the together.. 

Dougie fresh posted:

Moonman posted:

Dougie fresh posted:

Daz's that the idea but its 3 4x4 one in the corner and the other two on each end..  I like your idea and Moonmans..Just trying to figure out how to get two trains on 2 tracks going there???  I will have two levels..

Dougie,

Ok, O31 doesn't fit inside of O36 naturally. Using 2 tracks on top eats up some center space and leaves only 32" for the tree in the center.

Here's 2 tracks elevated at 8". The road bed is a really tight fit.

 

In looking at this I can read the turns and the 10" straights, but I can not make out the "8.03?? what length of track is that??  On the top loop it shows 9 of the together.. 

8.03 is the track elevation in inches at the rail joints. SCARM elevations may have odd fractions for inches when set with the arrow keys instead of keyboard entry method, because it steps in millimeters then translates to inches. The elevation display is optional and can be turned off in SCARM.

Dougie,

It is a group of 1 3/8" pieces to make it fit. I really built that double loop to see if it would fit on one level. If you only want one train on each level, we can come with something a bit more attractive and refined.

I left the streets loop in there in case you still wanted to run the trolley.

here's the same plan with O31 elevated and one on the deck running around it.

Moonman posted:

here's the same plan with O31 elevated and one on the deck running around it.

 

That's it!!   I will just have a small village where the trolly was last year or I may put a passing siding there.  The one end of the top loop will have "The North Pole"  Ak P.E.   The other will have a mountain going up higher and toped with The Grinch..  and the into the side "Who Ville".   I got the Grinch yesterday from a person on EBay...  I think it will take three 2" thick blue foam sheets to raise the top train off the layout.  I like working with it as I can just carve what I want.  I got a set of MTH elevated trestles so I will use them to hole the track around the back from one level to another.   Any idea???

The MTH elevated are 6 1/2". You'll need something to build up the ends for the 1/2" difference.

I used the O31 on the elevated portion to eliminate hiding the lower level train in tunnels on the ends. You have to run a shorter engine and cars on the O31.

I could try to work the lower level middle to curve more to follow the top to create some more scenery space in the center.

Edit: That doesn't work.

The mountain foam may need to carved out a little to make clearance where the two loops almost touch.

Moonman posted:

The MTH elevated are 6 1/2". You'll need something to build up the ends for the 1/2" difference.

I used the O31 on the elevated portion to eliminate hiding the lower level train in tunnels on the ends. You have to run a shorter engine and cars on the O31.

I could try to work the lower level middle to curve more to follow the top to create some more scenery space in the center.

Edit: That doesn't work.

The mountain foam may need to carved out a little to make clearance where the two loops almost touch.

Well..after l@@king at the track plans, looks like it would take up so much space on each of the end 4x4 that only the center would be open for and village...  So may have to go to plan "B"..that is to run the track as Daz's posted.  I have looked at it and I think I could put switches to reverse the train if I put them on the two back streights.  I then would have more room in the center or could even put a small loop in the center with a few small sidings...  As for the mountains??  I could build them in the center of the loops ...What is your thought  on this???  

Dougie fresh posted:

Moonman posted:

The MTH elevated are 6 1/2". You'll need something to build up the ends for the 1/2" difference.

I used the O31 on the elevated portion to eliminate hiding the lower level train in tunnels on the ends. You have to run a shorter engine and cars on the O31.

I could try to work the lower level middle to curve more to follow the top to create some more scenery space in the center.

Edit: That doesn't work.

The mountain foam may need to carved out a little to make clearance where the two loops almost touch.

Well..after l@@king at the track plans, looks like it would take up so much space on each of the end 4x4 that only the center would be open for and village...  So may have to go to plan "B"..that is to run the track as Daz's posted.  I have looked at it and I think I could put switches to reverse the train if I put them on the two back streights.  I then would have more room in the center or could even put a small loop in the center with a few small sidings...  As for the mountains??  I could build them in the center of the loops ...What is your thought  on this???  

Only that it puts the O36 on the upper level and the lower would be tunneled on the ends hiding the train a lot. Have to think out of the box here.

Yes..But my thought is to not have two levels at all...

Ok, you need to use a little of the front inside corner- two tracks flat -plenty of center space now.

You could sneak a switch in for a siding in the front where 10" and fitters are and go into the center space.

Moonman posted:

Ok, you need to use a little of the front inside corner- two tracks flat -plenty of center space now.

You could sneak a switch in for a siding in the front where 10" and fitters are and go into the center space.

 

I could run that siding from there to the 10" at the top of the page when it goes back into the reverse loop..   I can still build mountains over it on the end if I want...Say did you see the finished layout I did last year???

yep, think it over. I have to tap out for tonite.

Yes, I posted a link to it for others to see it above.  I'll miss the tree, but I know it will look great.

Moonman posted:

yep, think it over. I have to tap out for tonite.

Yes, I posted a link to it for others to see it above.  I'll miss the tree, but I know it will look great.

Ok..I love the tree but we have had it in the layout for 6 years....Thought we'd do with out.  With that tree on the layout..makes 4 trees that we have in our home..

Four trees?  I think you can dispense with the forth one.

Dougie, here's another to look at for ideas. It's done with ScaleTrax, so it would have to be converted to FasTrack. And I forgot to redo the bottom loop on the right to use all of the table, my table is slightly different. The 2nd photo is the large one in 3D, I didn't save the changes to do it in 3D.

Sorry, I posted before I saw there were later posts.

Daz, no problem. He's open to ideas. I think now, he wants to keep things flat.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Four trees?  I think you can dispense with the forth one.

John,

The tree on the layout is very nice. The layout is very nice too.

https://ogrforum.com/t...layout-2015-finished

Dougie,

perhaps this web based layout app will let you do your own thing with your mac or iPad. TRAX

Thank you for all the input guys...My ole computer will not work well with scram and Annie's Mac....ok sorry I hate them... Your help from all of you has been so nice.  I was in NY City for Christmas in 2011 and at Macy's Lionel had a layout and it had two loops on the outside.  The closest to the outside was on the board.  The inter loop was raise about  a inch and a half.  At one end they had a mountain with a 036 circle about halfway up and going through the mountain tunnel.  If I can find the picture I will post it.  Anyway, that could be plan "C"??????????