Reviewing Orange Hall Big Dealer Booths

Atlas will be there. I believe they decided to join in the fun after the chart was made up.

Setting up at big $$$$ shows can be a pricey commitment.  I could understand any established party for not doing it.  The cost of the show comes off the top of any sales, then taxes, lodging, meals and salaries prior to any profit.

Ya just gotta love the fellowship to do it, which is understandable, to an extent.

I did expensive shows in my boat business for years.   The numbers got crazy.   The ROI trailed off.  After I stopped doing the big shows word of mouth kept the sales in a similar range.

I am certainly not one of the big guns. I will be at JJ-11, pretty near where we are all lucky to have Atlas O attending. I will not have has as much ready product because the rent of a van has not been covered by income at the last two shows that I have attended, October 2021 York and January 2022 ARS Springfield. What comes to York fits in a Durango. I have several new projects in the works, but quite frankly have been up against the 8-ball working to catch up on back orders, and they are not quite ready for prime time.

Please stop by to check out my new banner. Many advised that I needed one so I have gone and done it. Pick from ready-made shadowboxes, check out the assortment of laser cut letter sets, window kits and fencing that I have to offer. If you need Evergreen styrene strip, I will have nearly the entire lineup of 14" strips and shapes. I would really like some feedback on the new WH-07 Franklin Freight & Storage project, a model that several have asked after and can be viewed in prototype development. Downtown Building #1- did not get to a painted prototype, but the Taskboard version can be viewed.

Here's what ARS Springfield looked like and how WH-07 appears so far. I look forward to seeing/meeting you too soon!

See that guy in the back? He makes the best switches in the business and will also be in the Orange Hall. Across the aisle from me is Altoona Model Works, in my view the best detailed building models at the show. Next aisle over is TrainWorx and Scientific Models, Inc., AKA Micro Mark, from neighboring Berkeley Heights NJ. If you don't know them, check out East Coast Enterprises for large buildings and bridges, and Millhouse River Studio for turntables and transfer tables.

EDTCA posted the orange hall chart from last October for this April’s meet. They have the standard gauge mod layout posted and they are not setting up. It shows Lionel who will not be there. It show Trainworx who I think will not be there.
EDTCA should be posting the correct Orange hall dealer/ manufacturer chart for April and not an old map.
Maybe I am wrong and they updated it recently. Still will give EDTCA a thumbs up for putting on a huge train show twice a year.

I believe that the Orange Hall chart has been updated, but is not current.

The Orange Hall Charts that are posted are current, except that they do not include ATLAS O, which was not included because they decided to attend the Meet after the Charts were posted by the Eastern Division. For example, they include a number of the vendors who used to be in the Purple Hall, which is not a Dealer Hall for this Meet. Last minute changes can always happen, as they did, for example, at the Meet last October.

Pat

I really won't miss Charles Ro and Nicholas Smith being at York.  Both are great stores, and I liked looking at all the product in their booths, but I usually buy from them online.  The only things I bought from them at York were the occasional blowout items that I wasn't interested in at regular prices, and that is a fairly rare occasion in these days of built-to-order.

To me, they always seemed to bring their newest stock, and this is the stuff I already bought online or from my LHS, and I suspect the same is true for a lot of people.  The dealers I buy from the most at York are the ones that are bringing their oldest stock and newly-purchased collections of older items.  To me, it seems that York is the perfect place to try to move those items that have been gathering dust on the shelves or in the warehouses.  People are coming into the hobby all the time, and seeing things that are NOT in stock at their LHS is a great thing for them.

Andy

You're spot-on Andy, that's what I look for at York as well.

Speaking of Orange Hall dealers, I received a call from TCA this morning asking after a white plaster model project called "Goose Bay Tower" from a hobbyist who is not able to attend this April. I am not familiar with the project and after speaking directly with the hobbyist I am not 100% certain that he has the project name correct. He did offer that he has seen the dealer in the Orange Hall " to the right the main entrance" and that the models were white plaster. If you know who this dealer is or was, please let me know so I can help connect the two dots.

@Andy Hummell posted:

I really won't miss Charles Ro and Nicholas Smith being at York.  Both are great stores, and I liked looking at all the product in their booths, but I usually buy from them online.  The only things I bought from them at York were the occasional blowout items that I wasn't interested in at regular prices, and that is a fairly rare occasion in these days of built-to-order.

To me, they always seemed to bring their newest stock, and this is the stuff I already bought online or from my LHS, and I suspect the same is true for a lot of people.  The dealers I buy from the most at York are the ones that are bringing their oldest stock and newly-purchased collections of older items.  To me, it seems that York is the perfect place to try to move those items that have been gathering dust on the shelves or in the warehouses.  People are coming into the hobby all the time, and seeing things that are NOT in stock at their LHS is a great thing for them.

Andy

Me, too. Ro is probably my #1 go-to but I've already ordered from him.

Through the years I've really loaded up at Grzybowski's. Between his big inventory of older stuff and the York Specials, I always find something. Doesn't hurt either that he has a good stock of MPC which I'm also interested in.

@Todds Architectural Models posted:

Speaking of Orange Hall dealers, I received a call from TCA this morning asking after a white plaster model project called "Goose Bay Tower" from a hobbyist who is not able to attend this April. I am not familiar with the project and after speaking directly with the hobbyist I am not 100% certain that he has the project name correct. He did offer that he has seen the dealer in the Orange Hall " to the right the main entrance" and that the models were white plaster. If you know who this dealer is or was, please let me know so I can help connect the two dots.

I believe he is talking about the Buzzards Bay Tower which was a resin kit. I believe it was made by Railway Design Associates, which was bought out by Rail Scale Models.

Could it be this kit by TW TrainWorx, joe?

.......they are usually on the “right side” of the Orange Hall........and though this is not an exact copy of Buzzard’s Bay Tower, it’s close....I believe it’s a model of the New Rochelle Tower.....and, they are not coming this April......

Peter

Peter- I have a call into TrainWorx to ask them. Also spoke with a few others but no confirmed sightings yet. If it is OK by you I will see if I can send a copy of your photograph to the hobbyist. That is a beautiful model. Is it hardboard or plaster?

When I was at Nicholas Smith in February, they told me that they are done as far as Train Shows are concerned.

I spoke to Roger Farkash last week and they are too busy with layout construction to get away this Spring.

I spoke to Tim at Mianne and they have a conflict with a family event this Spring.

It is certainly a “new” York, and going forward, we just have to accept and enjoy it for what it is......

Peter

@Andy Hummell posted:

I really won't miss Charles Ro and Nicholas Smith being at York.  Both are great stores, and I liked looking at all the product in their booths, but I usually buy from them online.  The only things I bought from them at York were the occasional blowout items that I wasn't interested in at regular prices, and that is a fairly rare occasion in these days of built-to-order.

To me, they always seemed to bring their newest stock, and this is the stuff I already bought online or from my LHS, and I suspect the same is true for a lot of people.  The dealers I buy from the most at York are the ones that are bringing their oldest stock and newly-purchased collections of older items.  To me, it seems that York is the perfect place to try to move those items that have been gathering dust on the shelves or in the warehouses.  People are coming into the hobby all the time, and seeing things that are NOT in stock at their LHS is a great thing for them.

Andy

Andy:

Your assessment is both fair and accurate. That's why I love to see dealers there like Grzyboski's Trains, which always has a bunch of old new stock. Additionally and quite frankly, particularly when it comes to freight cars, IMHO the old new stock is better quality than many of the cars that are being manufactured today, particularly by Lionel. Additionally, Lionel's new boxes are paper thin and their plastic inserts are junk, which are frequently broken NIB or disintegrate when removing them from the boxes.   

Pat

@Todds Architectural Models posted:

Peter- I have a call into TrainWorx to ask them. Also spoke with a few others but no confirmed sightings yet. If it is OK by you I will see if I can send a copy of your photograph to the hobbyist. That is a beautiful model. Is it hardboard or plaster?

Engineered hardboard........this is how they come.......this is from the TW kit I’m currently doing.......the Switch Tower kit is in my closet, waiting to be done.....and, the picture is from the TW website........

Shhhhh,…. DONT LET IT OUT.

While he won’t be there in April, For those of you who remember Vince’s Trains, and his seemingly endless tables of great locomotive buys, he has the “bug” again, and we can expect to see him in the Orange Hall again in October.

@Jim M Sr posted:

Shhhhh,…. DONT LET IT OUT.

While he won’t be there in April, For those of you who remember Vince’s Trains, and his seemingly endless tables of great locomotive buys, he has the “bug” again, and we can expect to see him in the Orange Hall again in October.

He should put up a big picture of Chuck (Trainpop) in his booth to help us find him... 

Andy

@3rail posted:

Hey guys. Just checking out the Orange Hall "Dealer Booths" posted on the TCA York site for Spring 2022.

Noticed the big guns are not there again. No Charles Ro or Nicholas Smith. I thought Atlas was going to have a booth?

I did see Mr. Muffin, Trainworld and Grybroski. I hope those guys bring a lot of product.

Donald

I have talked to Nicholas Smith a bunch of times at the store about shows.  They won't be doing any shows in the future.  So you should not expect them at any shows anymore.

Plus we are losing an incredible resource at Nicholas Smith.  Joey is moving on at the end of May.  I will really miss all his incredible knowledge about everything trains (model and real).  It's a huge loss.  So, things are changing.

Andy, it will be there on top of his stool!

@Jim M Sr posted:

Shhhhh,…. DONT LET IT OUT.

While he won’t be there in April, For those of you who remember Vince’s Trains, and his seemingly endless tables of great locomotive buys, he has the “bug” again, and we can expect to see him in the Orange Hall again in October.

That's great news.  In addition to the bargains, Vince was great to deal with.  The way that people made a beeline for his booth at the opening bell is what I imagine the gold rush might have been like. 

I won’t be there in the spring but fall will be here before you know it. I was looking forward to seeing Tim and his crew from Mianne Benchwork but reading all the statements they won’t be there anyway. It does look as though future York events will be different but that’s okay. Things do change and that might be a good thing!

@Jim M Sr posted:

Shhhhh,…. DONT LET IT OUT.

While he won’t be there in April, For those of you who remember Vince’s Trains, and his seemingly endless tables of great locomotive buys, he has the “bug” again, and we can expect to see him in the Orange Hall again in October.

Jim:

That's awesome. Vince had an awesome array of engines to sell, particularly steam engines, and he is a great guy. He was really missed at the York Meets. Thanks for reporting this great news.

Pat

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

I have talked to Nicholas Smith a bunch of times at the store about shows.  They won't be doing any shows in the future.  So you should not expect them at any shows anymore.

Plus we are losing an incredible resource at Nicholas Smith.  Joey is moving on at the end of May.  I will really miss all his incredible knowledge about everything trains (model and real).  It's a huge loss.  So, things are changing.

Sean:

I was surprised to hear that Nicholas Smith would not be attending the upcoming York Meet. They are one of my favorite dealers and are not far from York. Perhaps Chris concluded that it just wasn't worth the effort from a financial standpoint.

Totally agree with your comment about Joey. That guy was a rock star who was very helpful to me on a number of occasions.

Pat

Two other dealers of note who will not be there are Scenic Express and Miller Engineering. I know Jim moved the business to Colorado, but I understood he would be coming to York. Not sure why Miller Engineering will not be attending.

Pat

For a number of years now, I have been urging/advocating/advising/recommending--in the magazine, on this forum, and elsewhere--that the TCA-ED strongly consider making the York Meet a once-a-year/annual event, and have it held in October, just as it is now. I would recommend that it be a Thursday-Friday-Saturday event. There have been many changes to our hobby in recent years, in particular, related to changing demographics of the membership, manufacturer/supplier/dealer changes, and other factors, including the impact of the pandemic and most certainly the impact of the current inflation which is impacting virtually everything and is not projected to be turned around anytime soon.

It simply makes good sense to now, in light of all of those factors and more, to make the York Meet, which I truly do enjoy attending, an annual event with perhaps some thinking-outside-the-box extra incentives added. There will likely be no better time to make this change for 2023 and beyond than now.

Allan:

Yes you have, my friend. You are a good man, but on this subject, I respectfully disagree, and I strongly suspect the vast majority of TCA members do as well. Many of us enjoy attending York Meets twice a year and having two a year also assists members to attend one per year when business commitments, family issues and a myriad of other potential issues may prevent them from attending one of the two. The pandemic is in retreat, and there have been periods of significant inflation in the past, and inflation did not stop the Eastern Division from holding two Meets per year. It should also be noted that we went two years without a York Meet on account of the pandemic, and so there remains a pent-up demand.

It also feels like you are looking at this from the standpoint of the manufacturers and vendors. We all have to remember that the York Meets were originally for the members only and only had member halls, and the Meets continue to be primarily for the members. The member halls are always packed, without regard to the nuances and changes that occur over time regarding the manufacturers and dealers that impact which of them may choose to attend a Meet and occupy the dealer hall/halls. Last, it is ultimately up the Eastern Division concerning how they want to run their Meets. I for one am glad they reversed the decision they made just before the pandemic commenced to move to two-day Meets and went back to three-day Meets for now and in the future.

Pat

Well stated I totally agree we don't need the manufacturers to have a great meet. The internet is the means they today promote themselves in an affordable manner. For others outside of the e..  or auction they need a train meet.

Things may be changing to the extent that it might be necessary to change the size of the meet, but I don't think eliminating the spring meet is the answer. York was not always the size event that it is today. In fact, it wasn't always at the York fairgrounds.  It started in a livestock pavilion not far from the fairgrounds and grew from there. I have been attending the York meet for over 40 years (April 1979 was my first), and it was a lot different then. It was 4 halls: red, white, blue and yellow. The yellow hall was one of the older wooden buildings, which I believe has been torn down. Then the grandstand building was used for the yellow hall. Back then, what we know as the orange and silver halls weren't built yet. I don't remember exactly when they were built, but I think it's about 25 years ago.

My point is that the meet has evolved over decades into what many here have come to expect as "normal." If it is scaled-back to 4 halls that are members-only, I believe it will still be a great event with many opportunities for great deals between TCA members. I hope EDTCA is still planning on twice a year, even if it means going back to its roots of private, member-to-member transactions with no dealers.

@Allan Miller posted:

For a number of years now, I have been urging/advocating/advising/recommending--in the magazine, on this forum, and elsewhere--that the TCA-ED strongly consider making the York Meet a once-a-year/annual event, and have it held in October, just as it is now. ..........

We usually agree Allan, BUT not this time. Please TCA-ED - keep the twice a year schedule!

If the commercial dealers and manufacturers don't feel that the exposure and good will are worth the expense, I won't argue their business decision, they could then attend once a year, or not at all. I get it that most of their sales are probably on line now anyway. Don't let this tail walk the dog.

IMHO the heart of the York experience is, and has always been, the member halls. Making friends, sharing trains, the deals, the learning experiences, after show meals and drinks with friends of like mind and love for the hobby should not, again, IMHO, be limited to once a year.

Everything changes in time, yes even the toy train business!!! Hope everyone attending York has a great time.

Jeff

@Todds Architectural Models posted:

I am certainly not one of the big guns. I will be at JJ-11, pretty near where we are all lucky to have Atlas O attending. I will not have has as much ready product because the rent of a van has not been covered by income at the last two shows that I have attended, October 2021 York and January 2022 ARS Springfield. What comes to York fits in a Durango. I have several new projects in the works, but quite frankly have been up against the 8-ball working to catch up on back orders, and they are not quite ready for prime time.

Please stop by to check out my new banner. Many advised that I needed one so I have gone and done it. Pick from ready-made shadowboxes, check out the assortment of laser cut letter sets, window kits and fencing that I have to offer. If you need Evergreen styrene strip, I will have nearly the entire lineup of 14" strips and shapes. I would really like some feedback on the new WH-07 Franklin Freight & Storage project, a model that several have asked after and can be viewed in prototype development. Downtown Building #1- did not get to a painted prototype, but the Taskboard version can be viewed.

Here's what ARS Springfield looked like and how WH-07 appears so far. I look forward to seeing/meeting you too soon!

See that guy in the back? He makes the best switches in the business and will also be in the Orange Hall. Across the aisle from me is Altoona Model Works, in my view the best detailed building models at the show. Next aisle over is TrainWorx and Scientific Models, Inc., AKA Micro Mark, from neighboring Berkeley Heights NJ. If you don't know them, check out East Coast Enterprises for large buildings and bridges, and Millhouse River Studio for turntables and transfer tables.

I'll be sure to stop by!

@irish rifle posted:

Allan:

It also feels like you are looking at this from the standpoint of the manufacturers and vendors. We all have to remember that the York Meets were originally for the members only and only had member halls, and the Meets continue to be primarily for the members. The member halls are always packed, without regard to the nuances and changes that occur over time regarding the manufacturers and dealers that impact which of them may choose to attend a Meet and occupy the dealer hall/halls. Last, it is ultimately up the Eastern Division concerning how they want to run their Meets. I for one am glad they reversed the decision they made just before the pandemic commenced to move to two-day Meets and went back to three-day Meets for now and in the future.

Pat

Actually, I was/am looking at it more from the standpoint of the economics of holding as meet like this one. Someone will have to pay for the significantly increased costs, in recent years and likely going forward, for the fairgrounds facilities, security, utilities, and any number of other real-time costs. Manufacturers, dealers, and other vendors most definitely helped with these expenses. I realize full well that it is entirely up to the Eastern Division and their membership to do whatever they care to do with the York Meet, and I will continue to enjoy attending, when I can, no matter what they decide. OGR will not have a booth at the April meet, but we are planning (at present) to be on-hand for the October event. I will be there in April we will see how thing look at that point. I have never been to a York Meet that I have not fully enjoyed, and would surely like to see them continue into the future.

I too totally disagree with Allan. It's a Member's Event, it's not up to the dealers to tell the TCA what they should do.

I have been watching all the posts which have been made on the York TCA meet and was wondering when the bubble would burst and someone would start to push the broken record topic of LET'S LIMIT THE YORK MEET TO ONCE A YEAR.   Not surprised in the least that it was brought up or its source.   I was hoping that with all the pent up desire and demand for model trains and train meets this topic would become a dead issue and we could  all enjoy the pre-York excitement and the meet without any negativity.  It appears I was wrong.  In any event,  I've argued quite strongly in the past that York should be held twice a year and I still hold that position.  I agree wholeheartedly with those who believe these meets are held for the benefit of the individual members and not the Importers /manufacturers.   Long before the Importers/manufacturers came on the scene the membership met the burden of shouldering the cost of these semi-annual meets so I don't buy into the economic burden of two meets a year being too much to handle.    The system we have in place has worked successfully for a very long time.  For God's sake leave it alone.

Don’t expect CharlesRo to ever attend a York show or any other show for that matter again.  Ever since senior passed, the family who solders on with the store have no interest in attending shows of any kind.

@superwarp1 posted:

Don’t expect CharlesRo to ever attend a York show or any other show for that matter again.  Ever since senior passed, the family who solders on with the store have no interest in attending shows of any kind.

Gary:

I suspected CharlesRo was not coming to York when they were not at the Amherst Train Show, which they had always attended, and which is much closer for them than York. I think your reading about their future plans is accurate as well, but who knows what the future has in store... .

Pat

@Allan Miller posted:

For a number of years now, I have been urging/advocating/advising/recommending--in the magazine, on this forum, and elsewhere--that the TCA-ED strongly consider making the York Meet a once-a-year/annual event, and have it held in October, just as it is now. I would recommend that it be a Thursday-Friday-Saturday event. There have been many changes to our hobby in recent years, in particular, related to changing demographics of the membership, manufacturer/supplier/dealer changes, and other factors, including the impact of the pandemic and most certainly the impact of the current inflation which is impacting virtually everything and is not projected to be turned around anytime soon.

It simply makes good sense to now, in light of all of those factors and more, to make the York Meet, which I truly do enjoy attending, an annual event with perhaps some thinking-outside-the-box extra incentives added. There will likely be no better time to make this change for 2023 and beyond than now.

And open the show at 9am on Thursday instead of noon whether its once or twice a year.

@irish rifle posted:

Gary:

I suspected CharlesRo was not coming to York when they were not at the Amherst Train Show, which they had always attended, and which is much closer for them than York. I think your reading about their future plans is accurate as well, but who knows what the future has in store... .

Pat

Everything is subject to change, I’m hopping they change their minds but I’m not holding my breath.  My info is second hand but I trust my sources and to date CharlesRo hasn’t attended any shows.