Risk of buying new old stock TMCC/Legacy?

While electrolytic capacitors can degrade with time, it's not been that much of an issue to me. I have some 25 or 30 years old. Sometimes they will draw a little current until they reform, but work ok.

As to the unopened, it has to be quite a bargain since Lionel quality control issues are so prevalent. A warranty is desirable until the kinks if any get sorted out and the value of that should be considered when purchasing. Some of the sellers have an unreasonable idea of what their stuff is worth and I don't value the unopened condition. It may have been true in the pre-post war Lionel days, but is no longer true in my estimation. In fact having the item run a bit may well be desirable as opposed to not tested.

The only electrolytics I've seen that degraded in model train electronics has been the ones on the old MTH 5V boards.  My suspicion is those are the early 2000-2002 batch that was defective from the factory and were widely reported about in the capacitor plague.

The most common issue I find is some oxidation of contacts on connectors and the PLCC RailSounds chips.  Neither is difficult to address, and I have no problem buying used stuff.

Everything I have bought that has fallen in this category have been flawless operators.  So no, don't waste your time or money on them so that I have more to pick from.

All of my "new old stock" TMCC scale engines were flawless out of the box, and still run great.

@ GRJ..  when trouble-shooting, is their any way to test a capacitor for good/bad, and/or its stated value ?

Not really, my test is to put it on the tracks and run it.

Really, the dead capacitors in TMCC stuff is not an issue, at least not that I have seen in hundreds of locomotives.

actually there is a way to test a capacitor i have a capacitor meter which read the value which is stamped on the side of the capacitor. Also they can be tested under load and to see if they are breaking down under voltage , but must be removed from the circuit to do the voltage test, I have the test equipment which apply a DC voltage and an electric tube EYE which shows closed  if the capacitor actually  shorted, works very well and i believe it was made by PACO test equipment company

I can supply a picture if you need one, I don't believe they make them anymore though, but you never know.!

Alan Mancus

Uhh Alan, they're in circuit, harder to test accurately.  In any case, this is simply not an issue with these boards, unless someone has slipped some bogus ones in the pile.  Testing capacitors on these boards is looking for problems where none exist.

Interesting about the electric eye. They were used for radios as a tuning aid and much else. They measured the value of a negative voltage applied to a "grid". The greater the voltage, the more they fluoresced and closed the eye circle. I guess the voltage applied to the eye was probably inversely proportional to the leakage current thru the capacitor...depending on what was designated as "OK".

Gentlemen,

    Again this all depends on the amount of money you are spending for the used items, I would not purchase a used Legacy Shay if I could pick one up at Patrick's trains for just a little more money, the same goes for FasTrack Command Control switches, when Charlie N has them on sale each year, NIB for great prices.  I better be getting one heck of a sweet deal, to purchase this kind of equipment used, when I can get the complete Warranty, this is especially true when purchasing a DCS or Legacy system.  In fact I want the dealer warranty on both these items.

PCRR/Dave

I picked up the P. Bunyan Legacy 2-truck Shay for $380 a couple of weeks ago on eBay, runs like a top.  The only thing I had to do is glue the headlight lens that got dislodged in shipping.  I could have had it for $799 at Pat's Trains, but I have other things to do with that extra $400.  New engines are a lot like new cars.  Yes, you get a warranty, and it's brand new.  However, you pay dearly for that "new train smell".

I have been lucky with my purchasing of older new in box. I have purchased two K-Line steam engines with TMCC and they have been great running engines. The same with an Atlas TCMM engine. Took it out of the box and it is still running today.

Not so lucky for me. Long time conventional operator who's first try at the dark side has been a challenge. I also bought a Shay, this one a K-line, it was described as excellent condition and cosmetically it is but aside from some audio at start up, it doesn't budge in conventional (lights do change states) but that's it. The Legacy system bought the same time was also from the bay which is NOS, actually New Ancient Stock, v1.0. I called Lionel, they were cool and said they would upgrade it. Now about that engine, it had a ebay money back guarantee which I am trying out, I am kind of curious about that guarantee, we'll see. Worst case, I'll get very familiar with the electronics of this newfangled tmcc/legacy stuff. Will I buy more, yep, will I get burned occasionally yep

It has been conversed about many times before.  I will only buy used from an OGR Forum member.  I see guys every week that get screwed to the wall very hard buying on fleabay. 

If you get a nib old stock locomotive and the price is very good, go for it.  I like to run an add on the Forum that I am looking for inoperative engines and get a few.  Many of the people (not forum people)  with bad engines would rather screw someone for a few bucks gain on fleabay.  They all say it ran when they sent it.

BUY ON THE OGR FORUM AND BE SAFE.

quote:

 I think most people are trying to be honorable.

I think that's true, but unfortunately, there are bad actors too.
and then there are the honest folks who are just misinformed.
Read descriptions carefully. Examine the photos, and check the seller's feedback.

When I'm buying from an unknown source (eBay, etc.), I plan on getting the engine cheap or I pass it by.  I also figure in the possibility of some issues with the purchase in the price.  Truthfully, on eBay, the risk is not as great as buying from someone at a train show.  If the item is grossly misrepresented, you can get everything but your return shipping back, so it's not a huge risk.  Simple rule, don't over-pay for something you haven't seen.

I ask questions all the time.  one engine I got for 150.00  and SD40. proto 2.  did not work, bad battery leaked. my guess the board fried. no action at all. so I said, I was willing to keep it for 50 bucks because I would have to put in new boards and such.  they just took it back.  But overall, I never had issues with any of my Ebay purchases.  But I do like dealing with the forum because we all chat and are part of a family here! 

I have never had a problem on ebay, everything was as described. I think that if a seller gets a bad rating on a sale, it lowers the price they can get for anything else they sell.  I have bought older new old stock engines and have only had to replace batteries.

 I just sent a check for a purchase from someone on the forum, and am a little neverous about it. On ebay when paying with palpay you have protection.   

Be very careful. Personally I have had good results with supplier honesty but still ended up with something that didn't meet expectations. Latest is a Weaver RS3 with TMCC. It is EXACTLY as the seller described. I don't like it though. Poor sound quality, no speed control and stalls all over the layout. That's on me though because I didn't do any research in advance. I have had feedback from others that TMCC can mean just about anything depending on the product.

I have an SD40 that stalled all over the layout and was advised to replace the R2LC board with the "08" version. It runs great now.

A weak receiver can cause TMCC stuff to just die on the layout, that's probably what you experienced.  Obviously, replacing the R2LC replaces the TMCC receiver, problem solved!

At the time, I remember something like the board I was using could have some issues with that engine or tmcc platform and that the 08 board was better for it. 

Seems like it might have been Lionel Jon or Bill of MTTPONLINE or both that said it. 

Ok, does Henning's stock those?

I got one from Modern Toy Train Parts Online.

You all have me thinking as I have the NYC freight set from 1997 with the 2380 GP-9 tmcc engine in it. the set has never been run infact the engine has never been out of the box so I'm thinking should I naw I'll just leave it like it is as if I need to replace the electronics I know where to get them. but speaking of this I do have another 2380 and 2383 that run perfectly and other older tmcc engines still running with no problems and have converted some GP-7/9 NYC to tmcc via ERR so good with all. 

The parts are readily available for even the oldest TMCC stuff.  Scott, we can fix you up with an R2LC if you need one.

I have them in stock too Scott.  G

Guns,

   You were more than lucky with the Legacy Shay, as MartyF advises the OGR members, the best way to safe guard yourself, if you are purchasing used, is to purchase from another OGR Forum member.  Flebay is a crap shoot, I do purchase rolling stock in that manner however, especially if I know the company selling. 

Guns you also have the engineering ability to repair stuff you purchase from fleabay, not many others do, your individual situation makes your crap shoot not quite so dangerous.

PCRR/Dave

Dave, I've purchased plenty of stuff on eBay, and usually get exactly what I expect.  I'll admit that I'd rather buy from a forum member, but I ended up with one lemon that way as well, though the member is no longer around, probably for good cause.

I think I just check pretty carefully what I'm buying, I know what I want to spend, and I pretty much come away satisfied with the transaction.  Of course, as you correctly observe, most of the stuff that might be wrong is pretty easily repaired if you have the skills.

I've bought quite a bit of used and NOS TMCC and Legacy on Ebay and the trainz.com auction site. So far I've had no major problems - virtually everything was accurately represented in the sellers descriptions.  Some of the best deals are the items actually described as non-working.  I usually buy stuff fully prepared to repair boards at the component level.  So far, other than one bad EL backlight driver in a TMCC Aquarium car, everything else has turned out to be either bad wiring & connection or mechanical. Of course, that's excluding things like traction tires, bulbs and smoke unit wicking which I expect to do in anything used.

Jim

Guns & jj1,

   What you both just told me is that with your own repair skills, your experience with purchasing off fleabay is ok, and that you expect some problems.  Sorry but this is not a good situation for the average train purchaser.  You guys are really the exception to the rule, because of your repair talents.  My advise still stands, I only purchase rolling stock that I believe is pictured truly off e-bay, no engines or DCS or Legacy systems.

PCRR/Dave 

I've bought a bunch of used PS2 locos off ebay without a single issue with any of them.

Of course, I realize the original poster was asking about Legacy/TMCC

Martin,

   Man you need to bottle and sell your luck!

PCRR/Dave

The two new legacy engines I did buy worked great out of the box too.  So did all the new MTH ps2 and PS3 engines I got.

I think control electronics are much more reliable than these OGR forums would lead us to believe...

3G and GRJ, thanks, will get with u after a little research. Would like to see the Weaver as a new addition to my engine stable instead of a dust collector on the "dud" shelf.

I've had as many issues with stuff I bought from the forum as I have with eBay stuff.  If you're buying used stuff, you may have to do some tweaking, comes with the territory.  However, the issues with most purchases are rarely electronic, probably because those problems know they don't stand a chance here.

If you don't feel comfortable buying on eBay, I suggest you don't buy there.  I'm not sure why you're so hard over against eBay, the variety and availability of out of production stuff there is pretty hard to match.

My "pleased with purchase" success rate on the forum is better than on eBay but there are no guarantees either way. My TMCC purchases have not turned out well by I have a mint PS2 P47 and mint PS3 FEFN that were about $275 shipped each from eBay. Also rolling stock and track purchases. Even with sellers that have a No Return policy, they have accepted the return without complaint if you are nice about it.