"Running the trains slowly makes the layout seem bigger"

Slow only works if you have scenery. Slowing the trains down allows them to become part of the scenery and the observer focuses on the whole rather than locking in on a speeding train. Without scenery, the only visual stimulation is the speed of the trains. We've noticed that when kids first start running on the layout, we have to tell them to slow down, but as they experience the layout they naturally slow down. Very rarely will we have a train running faster than about 30 scale miles per hour -- usually it's 25.

Well said Matt.

But getting away from the public, the club members, the grandchildren, whatever, don't you just like a slow train running through a network of turnouts leaving the yard it's one of my own personal likes.

OK, I'm selfish for saying that and I have nine grandchildren they get their turn!

Roo

The other thing that makes a layout seem bigger is sticking with traditionally-sized equipment.  Even if I had a warehouse-sized layout, I'd stick with traditionally-sized gear.  The effect of wider curves and long tangents would just be amplified.

Jon  

When it comes to display layouts, I agree. The general public doesn't want to see very slow trains or switching operations, they want to see trains running at reasonable speeds. I've done a lot of shows with my club and the great majority of viewers are only interested in watching them run.

My home layout is a different story. My layout is small, only 6x9, so running my trains between 15 and 30 smph makes the layout seem larger. I don't have any tunnels but the trains disappear behind buildings for a few seconds and that also helps the layout to seem larger.

Jon, I agree with your observation. I run traditional size trains and will even after we move into our new home this fall and I can build a larger layout. To my eyes, traditional size trains look better on our too tight curves and make any layout seem bigger. 

Totally disagree. I have been to  literally hundreds of shows over the years and many club events and I never heard one complaint by the general public that the trains were running too slow and when I say slow I am talking 15-25MPH instead of 50-60MPH. These club and modular layouts are usually quite large to very large so they do not have the need to slow the trains down to make the layout appear larger but quite often I have seen them do exactly that. They will run the freight trains slower and passenger trains fast for a more realistic effect.

What the OP is referring to is a comment on another thread that states running your trains slower will make your layout appear larger. This comment was aimed at home layouts and not club or modular layouts designed for display to general public. As I said above these large types of layouts can run their trains faster due to the size of their layouts and the layout will still seem large but running trains on these layouts at 30-35MPH instead of 50-60MPH will make these large layouts seem even larger.

Slow is boring. other than a long freight, I want moderate speed. It bugs me to see a toy passenger train of the past going 35 MPH. Man it didn't happen that way. Those trains moved and not so you could jump off and pick daises either.

Slow is a relative term.  There is no one measurable "slow speed." 

To some, slow is a barely susceptible crawl and others it's anything under Warp 1.

I've never bothered to calculate the speed at which I run my trains at, I tend to run at what is a comfortable viewing speed for me and what my mind presumes is a fairly realistic speed, depending on the type of train.

Rusty

My old layout was a L-shaped 5x15x9 which is considered a small layout for this scale.  I had one circuit which essentially went around the border of the layout. What I would do is program a route so when the train was completely under the mountains it would stop for 30 seconds before starting again.   It made the layout seem a bit bigger and from time to time someone would comment "where did the train go" as I had a few loops which twisted like a pretzel underneath the mountain scenery.

-Greg

"Faster, mister, make them go faster!"

Ace,

   I agree slow rolling is great, and I use it most of the time, however there are times I really like to roll faster, especially for the great sound effects!  The Doppler effect is way cool.

PCRR/Dave

Joe B. 

You are spot on. In shows you are supposedly running trains for the public, kids like to see action, there own imagination determines how small or large a layout is. A audience of mature enthusiasts like to get a bit more 'real'.......express passenger.....semi-fast freight, slow freight, branch line etc. Incidently I found both old and young alike really get a kick out of slow running 009/narrow gauge 'rabbit warren' layouts, tight curves, lots of tunnels and bridges, usually make a small layout a little larger.

Your the gaffer at home I think we have a idea how are engines are going to run during the construction of a layout, no matter the size. IMO a large layout with moderately running speed does give the effect of it being larger then it is, also clever trackwork and scenery helps.

Flip.

I generally run trains at a modest pace except when racing an engine through the figure 8 and oval to test handling characteristics.  Modest speed also minimizes derailments and wrecks !

I have noticed my videos of the train are shown much faster when compared to the actual speed.  I recently finally picked up a higher resolution small camera with 1080 fps.  This camera allows me to mount it on flat car and push it around the layout and through the tunnels to see the layout from the engineers view.  My other cameras were too big to go through the tunnel portals.  Try getting your smart phone and its camera through a standard O gauge tunnel portal filming forward.

I used a moderate speed but the videos shows up way too fast.  I plan to re-shoot several passes much slower to allow more enjoyment of the layout in the video.

Charlie

I ran my trains for an hour at speed step 1 today.

Got out my tape measure and the layout is still only 10'x16'...

I run at whatever speed works.

Yeah works great on my office carpet central.   Stick to the slow speed and it makes an 8x10 a little more tolerable.

I agree, run them slow!  It does make the run take longer, therefore the layout seems bigger.  Those of us who are space challenged need all the help we can get.  Besides, I want to be able to see the fine detail of today's and yesteryear's models instead of a blur of color.

To me it depends on a lot of things. some times I like to see how slow I can start a freight run but other times I like t run it at what I call a operating speed. Now when I was young it was see how fast I could go and keep it on the tracks. Passenger cars I like a normal running speed also most of the time. 

When I had a full layout, I ran my trains like Bill does.  Slow in the yard or on a siding, but once clear of the yard I ran at prototypical speeds for the consist.  Slow for drag freights/coal trains and local freights, 25 smph or so for other freights, 35-45 for fast freights, and 50-60 or faster for passenger and express trains.  I ran my short mail train being hauled by a PRR T1 as fast as it would go, which was not as fast as the real thing.  Unfortunately, some of my other scale passenger engines also have top speeds less than their 1:1 counterpart.

Question:  is it okay to use "smph" without MTH suing you

Another factor to consider: don't run them so fast you outrun your engineer.

My layout is what it is. I don't run them real fast and I really don't like them  real slow at a crawl. Whatever strikes me as right at the time. Talk about loops being boring, I think yard switching would be boring but whatever floats your boat !!

Country Joe posted:

When it comes to display layouts, I agree. The general public doesn't want to see very slow trains or switching operations, they want to see trains running at reasonable speeds. I've done a lot of shows with my club and the great majority of viewers are only interested in watching them run.

...

What helps us is that the layout is convoluted, plus the return leg to the staging room is largely covered by a long tunnel. What I observe among the kids is they follow the train slowly along its way while the adults tend to survey the layout as trains pass through. The other thing that has helped is the "scavenger hunt" list which the kids and parents often team up on to find stuff on the layout. We also added "Waldo" (who reminds me of Scott Smith for some reason ) who is moved around the layout periodically.

I know slow running works for me.........       

http://www.carendt.com/small-l...k/page-51-july-2006/

No...it does not, I don't think there's anything that can make a 12x12 layout look any larger when you can take it all in with one look, except maybe a huge mirror on all sides

More Speed=More Noise.  I'd rather keep the noise down as much as possible and enjoy watching my trains instead of a blur.

(has anyone used Flex Seal as roadbed?  The ad I saw last night on TV showed the guy with a piece about 1/2" he poured onto a cookie sheet, thought that would make great sound deadening though might be expensive).

A lot of it has to do with perspective.  Have you ever looked at interstate traffic from an airplane?  Vehicles traveling 70 mph seem to be crawling.  When we look at a layout from a bird's eye view, the trains seem to be going slow so we speed them up to look better.  If we look at the layout from a low angle, such as a windshield view at a RR crossing, the slow trains look much better.  By limiting our view of the layout, a slow, short train can appear much larger than it actually is. I think this is why a lot of HO scale layouts are built at eye level.

Tom

My current layout is quite small (8x12.) I run loops and few switches because I don't like to fiddle much, and I vary my speeds dependent upon what's running.  My conventionals that run on the small loops naturally run faster because the engines don't like going slow. The CC engines I tend to run slower because they can do it smoothly. If I had the time/money everything I have would be Legacy or converted to CC.

Also, because I'm currently running FasTrack, I tend to slow down to keep the overall roar to a decent level. That way I can hear the engines and I can hear the clickity-clicks of cars over switches and joints, and that's important to me. With 4 trains running, it gets loud enough for poor conversation in a hurry (no pun intended), less so when things slow down. My grandkids seem more interested in the number of trains running rather than the speed. I've a tunnel setup where three of the four trains disappear on the back third of the layout (under the fourth) and they seem to like that. My fourth one is on a higher second level, and scenery bits (hills and bridges) hide it occasionally, so that works too.

I still wish to use more space pretty much every day. I still run them every day too.

.

I guess it's a matter of taste. I like to run slow, especially with steam engines. The movement of the rods and the synchronous chuff makes the engine look more like the massive machine it's a model of. I run Diesel engines a little faster but slow running allows you to see more of the detail and appreciate the train more IMHO. Since I belong to a club and we have multiple operators, the people at our open houses get to see both slow and fast trains running.