Say it isn't so..No more NASA RR!

At least the locomotives are getting new homes, but it definitely is sad to know that our space program has fallen by the wayside.

We can all look back and fondly remember when this nation was a leader--no, make that THE leader--in railroading, space exploration, military power, manufacturing, social and moral values, and any other number of good things. Those days are gone.

....And this is EXACTLY what you get when you don't take out the trash !

Meanwhile, at the Baikonur Cosmodrome.....

1.3 million dollar cost to maintain, that's a drop in the bucket compared to anything else the government runs.

This country is messed up, hate to see what it's like when my grandson is 55 like I am now.

Jerry

Jerry

Those NASA locomotives should be a good investment for their buyers -- one-owner locomotives, never worked hard, well-maintained.

Yes they are.  America we know of has changed.  We still live in the best country in the world, but it's changed dramatically and not for the best.

Legislated its Self to a stand still by Washington.  

The same government that can't run NASA or a postal system will soon be involved in your health care....That should work out well...

I don't normally comment like this but I couldn't help it this time.  And, I'm not a negative person in the least.  

Well let's see.  Are we willing to be taxed like we were in the 1960s and 1970s to fund NASA?  No.

Are we willing to fund NASA research if the science conflicts with our politics?  Apparently not.

Rhetorical question:  Did you vote for your current Representative and Senator?

Don't apologize for calling it like you see it.  That's NOT being negative!  You're simply making an accurate observation.  There's a vocal minority here who often like to misrepresent observations as negativity whenever they disagree.  

Allan nailed it with his comments, by the way.

David

 I wished I lived in a time when we were all proud of this  country again.  I don't know how the taxes were we the space program was in full swing but Nasa became such a small part of the federal budget its amazing anything gets done.  

From a toy train perspective nasa was just such a unique thing you couldn't help but like it. The classic lionel cars and accessories were big hits, and of course the current rocket transport sets by mth hugely popular as well.  I truly hope we get things turned around until the world is again inspired by the things we do. 

I don't think the plus-sized woman in a gaudy dress has finished her Aria yet when it comes to NASA. "The Falcon 9 rocket of Elon Musk’s SpaceX won U.S. Air Force certification for national security space missions, breaking the hold on sensitive satellite launches by a Boeing Co.-Lockheed Martin Corp. venture." NASA may not have the same patina that it did last century, but the evolvement makes sense. Its still tax dollars, just maybe better spent.  SpaceX also has the Falcon Heavy that they are going to get Man rated and possibly rejuvenate the heavy launch centers, locos and all.

My two cents and Allan did nail it.

Hmmm..

How exactly is our "railroading" falling short? If you want high speed rail you'd better get ready to open your wallet, because building high speed rail is a giant hole designed to accept and gobble up dollar bills--and the money has to come from somewhere.

Don't get me wrong--I'm not against the idea of spending money on high speed rail, but it won't come cheap and it won't pay for itself by any accounting method that looks at cold hard numbers.

Freight railroading in the U.S. is still the envy of the world, and if it isn't then I guess the place that beats it is somewhere I've never been...

Amtrak is a joke, but in a way it's very similar to our current space program, in that it is funded by a body politic that wishes it would go away to wither and die even while it operates under a system of rules and an organizational structure that by design robs it of whatever credibility It could hope to have.

Jeff C

NASA represented achievement, success, and pride in accomplishment in the USA.

Obviously those things are not necessary any longer and are certainly not a part of government. Quite a change since the moon landings. I wish that I felt it was positive or reversible.

Thank goodness for the fun with trains. 

quote:

I should flag my own post, but here goes. In 1960, entitlement spending represented less than 1/3 of the Federal budget. In 2014, it exceeded 2/3 of the Federal budget. Our elected leaders would be well served to read "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire". Perhaps they have, and are using it as a blue print!

Just looked it up. Where on earth did you come up with that figure?

Welfare is 8.1 percent
Health care is 22.6 percent.

I feel/am the same as Erik.  

Can't watch the news anymore either.

Our country better wake the #### up.  

As someone said above, the locomotives should be a great buy for whoever gets them.

Well, I'd check any and all O-ring seals myself.

How would one do THAT without disassembling the diesel engine?

All is not lost; you still have the NRAO telescope transporters:

In the course of checking around a bit after first seeing this thread, I was surprised to see the large number of NASA-decorated things offered by MTH in recent years. There must be a considerable following for items bearing the NASA livery.

Why let pesky facts get in the way of what's evolved into a political discussion (which, by the way, is a violation of the OGR On Line Forum Terms of Service/Posting Guidelines item #7)?     

quote:

Why let pesky facts get in the way of what's evolved into a political discussion (which, by the way, is a violation of the OGR On Line Forum Terms of Service/Posting Guidelines item #7)?     

Sorry, I couldn't let the original statement go unchallenged. It would be fine with me if both posts were deleted.

It really is a large list.

I was purchasing each for the longest time.  I didn't go for multiple road numbers, but other than that I hit nearly all the rolling stock and engines.

I seem to recall there are at least a few more in the latest catalog.  I need to evaluate whether to continue the insanity or cut myself off.

-Dave

Do you have some or all of the stuff operating on an appropriately themed layout, Dave?

Sorry, but no.  Most of it is boxed and I take out pieces once in a while to play.  (no article potential here )

-Dave

A good chunk of this thread could be lost because of the political commentary; I was aiming for a hint of levity, but in retrospect I missed the mark.  Fact checking and verification ought to go hand in hand, but that's a lost art in the realm of governmental discussion (something both sides of the political spectrum manage to skirt all too frequently).  

One of the more pleasant aspects of this site is Rule 7 being part of the agreement we all check off as being acceptable in exchange for the right to sign up and post (leave the politics at the door); the mods generally do a good job of removing posts that are gateways to shenanigans involving political commentary.  There's plenty of places for folks to sling political mud online - wiping your feet on the OGR doormat and playing nicely/following the site rules while here would be a nice start at regaining some of the lost civility people have commented about upstream in the thread.

I have deleted my previous posts. 

Entitlement spending is in excess of 65%. This bucket covers two of the items you listed plus a whole lot more. I will not debate with you regarding the validity of your "numbers".

quote:

Entitlement spending is in excess of 65%. This bucket covers two of the items you listed plus a whole lot more. I will not debate with you regarding the validity of your "numbers".

Like what? You throw totally unsupported numbers out, then run away.

C. W.,  Gilly is right about his numbers.  That being said, please everyone attempt to keep this thread in some form NASA RR related.  It is an interesting topic, and a shame to see it go, however if this thread dissolves into total politics it will also disappear.

Not trying to be the guy that has to quell someone else's opinion, but since I did start this thread, I do feel I can ask that it please be kept at least remotely on topic.

Social security and Medicare are also entitlement programs.  My wife and I are  beneficiaries of both and so are most of our friends since we are in that certain age group.

I grew up during the space age and wanted to be an astronaut.  I didn't get to space but I got to a lot of other places here on earth.  Space programs will become important again.

Joe

Here is a look at 2014 federal spending.  Most of the 3.5 trillion dollars was spent on a combination of social security, medicare, unemployment, medicaid, food stamps and other welfare programs. 

NASA requested 17.7 billion dollars.  Here is how they wanted to spend it.

 http://i.imgur.com/wYkBJ5W.png

With the end of regular SRB shipments to Cape Kennedy NASA does not have a need for a small fleet of locomotives.  They are better off paying FEC for infrequent switching.   If rail shipments increase in the future NASA can buy or lease locomotives at that time.  NASA is using common sense and doing right by the taxpayer by disposing of underutilized locomotives.  Those locos can make money and pay taxes by working harder somewhere else. 

Guys, NASA is getting ready for some big things, but laying low as they don't want to make a big deal about anything until things are sitting on the launch pad.

The SLS (Space Launch System), a rocket bigger and more powerful than a Saturn V is being built right now, at various places but mostly the Marshall center in Huntsville. The money's been spent, and the Orion capsule was already test-launched (unmanned) in December and NASA is very motivated to mate the two together for eventual man-rating tests. I got this shot of the EFT-1 being stacked a month before it went up:

Yeah, going to Mars is a long way off. But there will be men and women being launched from the US, maybe as early as 2018.

Many of you forget that the 'golden age' of space travel happened way faster than it probably would have had JFK not been assassinated and the US not been in a space race with the USSR. But even then, it took several years to get to the point where the Saturn series of boosters was ready to launch men anywhere. We all forget the Apollo flights that happened before 10 and 11, the first ones where we sent a complete LM/CSM (Lunar Module / Command Service Module) vehicle to the Moon (Apollo 8 was sent with just the CSM because the LM wasn't ready yet and that was tested in earth orbit on Apollo 9).

In short, show some patience. This has happened before, or am I the only one who recalls the 5+ year gap between Apollo/Soyuz and the STS-1?

Don't forget, plenty of people in government wanted to gut NASA the very moment we beat the Russians to the Moon, not realizing it was a also scientific and technological achievement for mankind, not just a political one for the US. Heck, several wanted to axe the program earlier than that.

Does this sound familiar? "We can land a man on the Moon, but we can't ________" (insert silly notion there).

Don't stop dreaming, we'll be getting there sooner than you think!

You know, NASA gets half a penny ($0.005) of each tax dollar brought in; in several surveys which asked if it should be doubled (to $0.01), those polled said "no."

To put it in perspective, the 2008 bank bail out ($750 billion) was greater than all the money NASA ever received in its operational history.

Gentlemen,

   Do you understand the NASA Space Shuttle was the greatest military weapon ever developed and the Obama administration has undermined the USA Security by down sizing it.  I worked for NASA/Martin Marietta building the Space Shuttle, for you people who do not like the cost of maintaining our freedom and would rather due Social Welfare Project with military money, how much is your freedom worth.  Breaking down the NASA RR is one big foolish move by an administration willing to totally undermine our nations security.  This NASA RR moves the External Tank to launch sight, now if our country is attacked the Space Shuttle with it's Lazer Mounted Cannons, developed during the Reagan administration, can not be deployed in rapid time, to safe guard our country.

This is not just a railroad gentleman, it's big part of our national security defense program.  

I do not think most civilian people understand, the NASA Space Shuttle is a Military Space Craft, developed to safe guard our country from any kind foreign invader.  All the rest is just window dressing.  Any body will to talk about the cost of the Space Shuttle Program knows nothing about our National Security Program and the true cost of Freedom.  Money was spent instead of lives, 

PCRR/Dave

Wow!!!  Some people should check the actual Republican vs. Democratic Congressional voting records to understand who is cutting what and which party supports space programs and which does not.  

Now getting back to NASA O gauge trains.  I have a collection of NASA themed trains made by K-Line.  These are truly great models.  I haven't seen these anywhere for a long time now.  I was able to get a couple of MTH NASA cars last year and I have a MTH NASA switcher with PS-3.  

My NASA trains are in storage.  I will have to get them out post some photos.

I wanted to be an astronaut as a kid.  My eyesight wasn't good enough to qualify.  Sometimes I wish that I had pursued a career working for NASA in some capacity but other options and priorities came first.  It is the road not taken and I will never know.

At least I have the O gauge trains.

NH Joe

I must have missed this topic back in May, otherwise I'd have made these comments then: allow me to point out that most of the present technology we use today (i.e., computers, cell phones, surgical procedures, medical monitoring and imaging, textiles, metalurgy, even those fancy sneakers on your feet, etc.) is merely the byproduct of what we developed for the space program. Any fool - be they "the man on the street" or self-serving politician and their kindred - who believes the space program was a waste of money should be sentenced to live within the confines of what the world was like BEFORE the Space Race. The lack of modern medical care alone would kill them before long.

We could have had solar-generated electric power beamed by microwave from space to Earth by now, and told OPEC what they could do with their oil - and that is something we've had the knowledge to do since the first step on the moon - we learned it on the way there. We still can do it IF we can get our act together. 

Thank you, I'll step off my soapbox now.

I do not see it that way Allan. We are still the leader in Military Power vs. anyone in the world. We still have an enormous manufacturing base (think cars) and I believe our social and moral compassions are far away the best in the world.

Our railroads (freight) are also the best on the planet. Amtrak - not so much.

Sure it has changed, but the rumors of the demise of the United States is not accurate.

And for the love of God, can we not make this a political discussion. That is NOT why I come to this forum. Your guy stinks and my guy stinks, your party is wrong and my party is wrong - can we leave it at that?

Maybe it's time to order that Saturn V Model on Amazon I've had "saved" for nine months now - I sure wish I had seen one of those things lift off ...

Paul

Dave

I gotta bring some points up here:

• There were never any weapons on the STS system. Yes, they launched some DoD sats that 'might' have carried some capacity, but the orbiter never carried weapons and was never intended to.
• Laser cannon? Really?  What's the size of that tin foil hat you're wearing?
• Martin Marietta was the prime contractor for the external tank, that I'm aware of.
• The STS program was done in 2011. Even if they were weaponized, they're all in museums now.
• The current president didn't kill the program, NASA did. They were looking for the next big thing. Most of the movers and shakers were long tired of the STS program and all the hassles it gave.
• The railroad itself isn't being yanked up. In fact, NASA is looking to pay new track out that way, into Port Canaveral. My understanding is that they're probably going to contract out for railroad operations as the SLS won't fly until 2018. The trains aren't gone for good, they just don't need them very much right now. But once the SLS program gets going, that'll change. They can always bring back new equipment and re-post for the GS-level jobs needed to run them. It's pretty common in government work that is contract-based.