Scale size conversion 3 rail to 2 rail ideally.

I am not familiar with the newer GP9s or the U36C.   The older GP9s were close to scale size but the cab was oversize to accomodate the motors.   If you see them next to a better model, they don't look right.  

Conversion of course requires you to insulate the wheels on one side totally from any other metal, such as the frame, trucks, gears etc.   You also have to turn the flanges down and make pickups for the insulated wheels.   Another option is to buy NWSL wheels if they have something that will work.   

There is a gentleman that is on this forum, Joe Foerkolb (spelling may be wrong) that does 3 to 2 rail conversions.   he is a machinest and has the tools.   I think his business is called Baldwin Forge and Machine and he has a website.    You may want to talk to him about the mechanics of conversion. 

Another big issue with converting 3-rail stuff is that most seem to have very high gear ratios.   They run like slot cars.    If you slow them down with voltage regulators, or DCC programming, you put the motor at low RPMs where it has very little torque.    So when the loco is under load at low speeds, it tends to stall.    Scale O locos have lower gear ratios so the motors can run more toward their desired torque range.  

My advice, is skip the idea of the converting 3 rail, and go to some 2 rail O scale shows and buy some 2 rail locos.   There are many many models of GP9s available.   I don't know about U36Cs.   

Along the lines of the high speed gearing, the MTH 2 rail locos built in the later 90s are also this way.   

If you insist on plastic, MTH makes fairly nice GPs and SDs.  I mostly like metal, so have a collection of Kemtrons.

Bite the bullet and get good 2-rail models.  Joe can 2-rail anything, but he is not wild about converting Lionel Diesels, especially single-truck power ones.

There is a lot of good O Scale for sale, and you can get good stuff for cheap if you watch.

Chris,

I come from over 30 years in HO & am struggling in O Scale. I model 2015 down to the 80s. Things like upper/lower shelf couplers & vast varieties of freight cars to choose from such as are present in HO aren't to be found.

From what I've found,Lionel diesels aren't 2 rail friendly. Lionel has started making their 89ft autoracks & 86ft boxcar so scale couplers can be put on as well as scale wheels. MTH is 2 rail friendly,making their diesels with 2railers in mind,but 3 rail is the predominant part of the O market that makes the money in sales for O scale manufacturers. Atlas makes 2 rail models as well as 3 rail models of what they produce. 2 rail sells quickly.

There are 100% prototypically operating models of the E coupler from a company called Protocraft you might want to check out if you want to be as close to the real thing as possible. Just put "Protocraft" in your address bar & this will bring you to their website.

I think there is a U36 available from MTH for $425 available on ebay.it's in Chessie. If you want to see more of MTH  products,type in MTH Product locator in your address bar which shows what's available &who has it.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

This is what little I know.

Al Hummel

Truth!

Thanks guys.. I kind of figured that was going to be the case. I already have Atlas O scale 2 rail. I just figured that maybe these would or could be converted but I also tallied up what these might run to do and, yes it does not really pan out pricewise..

And why does Williams run the same trucks on all their 6 wheel diesels?

Williams? Try MTH.

It makes sense. Three rail trains were originally toys, and if you use the same truck block for all you save buckets of money.  Note that, up until recently, 3-rail products were not intended to be scale models, and even now below the belt rail or running boards most are not scale.  Maybe the rationale is that, if the purchaser overlooks the track, he/she will overlook the wheels and sideframes too.

Because they can and people buy them anyway......

Not my cup of tea.. I received a few from my distributor and all I can say is.. Hmmmmm.

Altering a fish to fly is usually not worth the effort.  Plastic 2w rail diesels can be had +/- $200 on line and at most two rail shows.

Perhaps true, but we have found that with sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine....

I've been buying MTH scale-wheeled diesels since 2009 (sound, smoke, command control) and have been very happy with their operation in both 3-rail and 2-rail modes (for now, I'm a 3-railer with an identity crisis ). The later MTH locomotives with Proto-3 also run under DCC in addition to DCS (some might argue they actually run better under DCC, but I think that's layout-dependent). New, they can be had for around $400-450 depending on where you get them. Sometimes you find a bargain out there (if you're running DCC make sure you get one with Proto-3). The only down side is that the truck side frames are out too far to support the hi-rail wheelsets (which I don't use).

As Tom alluded to above, plastic diesels w/o sound and command control can often be found at meets for around $200. I keep my eyes open for those as I'd like to use a couple as basesfor command upgrading.

Later MTH O scale locomotive have also been offered with certain road-specific details which is a nice touch.

I will pick up a few 3 rail O gauge cars to match the couple of 3 rail scale locomotives just so I don't let them go to waste. Again, I can't shake the disease since I am so prototypical with my HO scale trains. I don't despise 3rd rail at all. I have just restored a set of tin postwar Pullmans to run behind my postwar 2-6-4. I have already picked up 3 older Atlas 2 rail locomotives and will modify these into DCC operation, Maybe sound but I'm not sure since these are my first.. I just may look into MTH 2 rail scale with the fixed pilots...

Am looking at the MTH with fixed pilots myself,still looking nothing in concrete yet,am still working numbers in my head as far as costs. Already have the DCS control system. Have 3 Atlas O Scale diesels at present. Was thinking of going with the DC operation until I can afford DCC. The MTH is cheaper at present,but when I add the cost of more proto3 units without scale wheels,the costs  get higher. Actually in the end,the 2 ways to go are about the same,but I don't have sound decoders included going DCC yet, so that will elevate the costs. Kind of an expensive "flip of the coin," situation.

Al Hummel

I to feel your pain of the 2 rail vs 3 rail world. I grew up 3 rail with a mix of Lionel postwar and MPC era trains. I was the service technician for Harmon's Trains in Arcadia, IN for many years. But at the same time I was in a big HO scale club and had a nice assortment of brass steam and logging. I moved away and downsized to just 3 rail Lionel, then moved back to a very small house.  My train room is 8 foot by 9 foot in total size. Not very conductive to 2 rail, even with smaller 4 axle diesels.  I am slowly aquiring some 2 rail stuff to mess with, but I am still in the 3 rail world for now with mostly postwar Lionel equipment.  To get any kind of continious running in my little room means around the walls, that got shot down by the kitchen boss for now.  I am not much for switching layouts, rather watch trains run and maybe switch out a couple industires on occasions.  In 2 rail I have an old Atlas EMD F9 and an All Nation F7 with both trucks driven.  In time, I will get it painted into Chicago Great Western colors. But today I picked up a really clean pair of Lionel 2343 Santa Fe F3's, some clean tinplate track and a station for this years xmas layout. The circle L runs deep in my blood thanks to grandpa! Cheers   Mike and Michele T

Dear Mike,

For the past 6/9 months I have had my PS 2.0 exchanged for the new PS 3.0 on 7 of my locos by a MTH certified tech,John Nestlerode. He keeps the PS 2.0 which I do not need and the cost difference to replace with the PS 3.0 with labor cost comes to $150.00 per unit.

John P Dunn Sr. Scale2Rail Promotions

John,

Thank you for the update.  No doubt you can get some via MTH certified techs and service centers.  Very happy to hear that. 

When I say as readily available as DCC decoders, I'm referring to seeing PS3 modules on the shelf at a hobby store next to DCC decoders. 

We do a lot of multi-train running at the club (Loop Running) but some of us do run switch jobs between the harbor and the through yard. Low-speed running under Proto2 and Proto3 with DCS is good at 3 scale miles per hour, but the rub for most of the members is the hi-rail couplers need to be slammed together to couple (doesn't apply to me a I use Kadees and Kadee-equipped cars when I do "locals"). Haven't done any switching operating under DCC on Proto-3 engines yet, but I would suspect similar performance.