Show Your F3s, F7s and similar diesels

Here is my first and favorite Lionel Postwar engine, the 1958 Rio Grande F3 AB. This was my Santa present for my first Christmas in 1958. It still runs and pulls great. This color combination is one of the nicest I think Lionel ever produced.

This was from my basement layout in the late 70’s.

Now on my Postwar Super O layout, still looks great.

Here are my two 3rd Rail FP7's.

I had to modify these as both the trucks and fuel tank were painted black when they should have been blue. That was an easy repaint. More significant was the font used for the script Chesapeake and Ohio was awful and the road number on the trailing unit was in a different position than the lead unit. Careful application of lacquer thinner removed the lettering and fortunately  I had an ancient Champ decal set with the correct lettering. Also installed short box Kadee couplers between the units to greatly reduce the gap between them and installed the two rail pilot and a Kadee coupler on the lead unit.

Ken

@lehighline- Thanks for the easy to understand and clearly visible FA vs PA distinctions.  I knew about the length, but almost all PW Lionel locomotives suffer that fate, after all they had to go around 0-31 curves except for a very few that were advertised as 0-72.  The 4 wheel vs 6 wheel trucks is a good indication and easy to spot however.  In effect, I don't run or collect scale locomotives as they cannot run on my layout - max curve is 0-31- so I have to live with the consequences and lack of scale sizing.

So here are some additional cab units...just for fun!

The Lionel C&O #225 Alco FA from 1960

Just a fun shot of 4 of my favorites in a row...

Talk about NOT scale, the Marx FM series is completely NON scale in nearly every way...but they run great and the lithography is superb...just for fun.

A little closer to scale, has simulated 6 wheel trucks, is the Mark Santa Fe #21 F3 from 1950-1954

Two more "fun" sized FM units by Marx, the KCS and Monon

Finally the Marx #99 Rock Island E7, again simulated 6 wheel trucks (not real - only 4 actual wheels).

Well that's about it for any cab units for me...Best Wishes hope your upcoming week goes well.

Don

Here's a work in process.  This is the Lionel Legacy NYO&W F3 A-B-B-A set. This is the set that was famous (notorious?) for being painted the totally wrong color the first time, they were painted silver!  The second paint job wasn't much better, it's still way off in color, but at least it was closer than the first attempt.  FYI, here's what the real one looks like.

The NYO&W F3 Pictures at TheRailWire.


All with sound & smoke, and three powered.  The unpowered one is the SuperBass unit.  They are really rolling thunder with four prime movers all shaking the rails.   I have two sets of shells, so one is currently being painted for PRR, and I'm still flipping a coin on the second set of shells...

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I get my PAs and FAs mixed up, I know FA is for freight and PA is for passengers, but don't know when I see a particular locomotive whether it's one or the other.

Arnold

Arnold,

Two simple ways to distinguish between FAs and PAs:

1) The FAs have a short stubby nose. The PAs have a longer nose.

2) The FAs have two-axle trucks. The PAs have three-axle trucks.

The ones in your video (New Haven Alpert paint scheme) are PAs.

Maybe there should be a separate thread for Alco FAs and PAs.

MELGAR

@MELGAR posted:

Arnold,

Two simple ways to distinguish between FAs and PAs:

1) The FAs have a short stubby nose. The PAs have a longer nose.

2) The FAs have two-axle trucks. The PAs have three-axle trucks.

The ones in your video (New Haven Alpert paint scheme) are PAs.

Maybe there should be a separate thread for Alco FAs and PAs.

MELGAR

PA's are also considerably longer, about ten feet.

Some photographs today on a beautiful sunny Sunday afternoon of some HO F units that modified and custom painted nearly 30 years ago now.

This is an old Athearn unit.  It's on a "Hi-Fi" chassis and I just use it as a dummy.  I added the Walthers detail kit and a few extra jewel markers for fun.  The weathering is a bit extreme, but by the mid 60's really it isn't.   It's also not prototypical.  CNJ didn't have F7s painted in this color and #10 was actually a leased N&W unit that CNJ briefly painted into CNJ blue only to be required to paint it back to its lessor's colors shortly after.

The B unit is a powered Tenshodo F7B model of 1960's vintage.  Note that the front truck is set back much like the FT.  It's a powerful runner though and does a good job of pushing its non-powered A unit mate.

'

Nose shot where I removed the second headlight (poorly as you can see) and shot next to my Tenshodo GP7 that got the same custom painting treatment as the F units.  How I got those stripes so straight when I can barely do this kind of work in O scale is beyond me at this point.  Suffice it to say, I had much more time, dexterity, and patience during my HO modeling days.

One more if the forum will indulge me again.  My Weaver NYC FA in 3-Rail.  It set me back a whole $25 at auction.  Couldn't say no to that even if it is part of the "Green Team"

@kanawha posted:

Here are my two 3rd Rail FP7's.

I had to modify these as both the trucks and fuel tank were painted black when they should have been blue. That was an easy repaint. More significant was the font used for the script Chesapeake and Ohio was awful and the road number on the trailing unit was in a different position than the lead unit. Careful application of lacquer thinner removed the lettering and fortunately  I had an ancient Champ decal set with the correct lettering. Also installed short box Kadee couplers between the units to greatly reduce the gap between them and installed the two rail pilot and a Kadee coupler on the lead unit.

Ken

Ken,

A beautiful job on these.  Should these run again, I will probably reach out to you for your expert input on how to get them correct from the factory.  That was a challenging time for 3rd Rail.  No excuses for all the issues on that project.  My PRR ones arrived with a firecracker antenna.  Not sure how that happened!

Lionel F3s as D&RGW F7s. These were some of the last to come out of Mt Clemens before production was moved to China.

A twin-motored TMCC A unit followed by a dummy A with the sound boards.

Sold as the Royal Gorge, in real life probably my all-time favorite passenger train.

@trumpettrain posted:

Here are some more non EMD F unit pics, but still carbody type locos.

FA 2 Western Maryland.  This is a Williams non powered unit.

The Williams and WBB models of the ALCO FA are the FA-1, not the FA-2. My understanding is that they are the only O-Gauge/Scale manufacturer yet to have made the FA-1. (The FA-2 is two feet longer than the FA-1 and the radiator fan is more forward than on the FA-1, to accomodate an optional steam generator for passenger service.)

I dream of one day acquiring a scale GN F3 or F7, but for now, my Williams FA-1, equipped with ERR Railsounds, will have to suffice.

Here are a few JERSEY CENTRAL F's (former BAR F-3s repainted to CNJ) at Jim Thorpe, PA

MTH CNJ F3s A, ABB, ABBA on Corsair 29's layout...

Centerville & Southwestern RR (formerly Becker's Dairy Farm RR) in Phillipsburg, NJ next to former CNJ mainline.

Enjoy.

Walter

Thank you for this excellent thread, Arnold. These engines are all so beautiful that I want them all, but am happy and thankful for those I have.

My LionChief FT, the first O Gauge locomotive I bought.

Williams by Bachmann F7 A-A Powered & Dummy:

Williams F7A:

H0 scale Mantua F7a:

Please forgive me for this second photo of the Manuta F7a, included because it really gets my heart beating the way the afternoon light from the basement window accentuates her curves.

Williams by Bachmann FA-1, included by way of the "similar diesels" special exemption:

K-Line twin powered Alcos in that "Fleet of Modernism" paint scheme that I hated passionately until I fell madly in love with it:

Ok, I'm done.

John

@Don McErlean posted:

Finally, I decided to take a HUGE risk and include a series of Alco PA's under the guise of Arnolds "similar diesels"...

<snip: some Lionel FA's>

Good post Don!

I really like Lionel's little FA's! I think my favorites are the cast frame "early" FA's... but I also like many of the little stamped frame versions. Just a super neat little miniaturized version of an Alco car body FA unit!

Andre

Okay... I've seen some Alco products in this thread... and said posts haven't brought forth the ire of Arnold the OP... SO...

Alco FA1m #203 eases through Polecat Cut as it leaves the summit town of Piney on the Kansas City & Gulf's "Ozark Sub".

FA1m #203 was one of the few Alco FA1's to be run through the KC&G's "Repower Program" back in the late 1950s. These were being performed in-house at the KC&G's "Magnolia Shops" located in Magnolia, Arkansas. While #203 was undergoing being repowered with an EMD 567 based prime mover, the unit also received nose MU's so it could be used in trail as needed. This feature was lacking on the original FA1's of the KC&G.

As for the "Repowering Program": After several units of various vintage passed through the Magnolia Shops for repowering, the entire program was abandoned as not be cost effective enough. The program only lasted a couple years or so.

Notes concerning the above pic:

The above is HO scale. The layout is my current KC&G "Ozark Sub" layout that is housed in a dedicated 16' x 20' HVAC-equipped out-building. The layout has 132.5' of point-to-point main line length with 7-track stages at each end. The layout was designed with prototype-based operation in mind with an emphasis on moving actual tonnage upgrade (with helpers as needed). The layout is a partial dual level with a "Nolix" to connect the two levels. The "Nolix" portion contains the grade up Buck Mountain and the grade itself totals 55' in length. The entire layout uses code 70 flex track in combination with Shinohara code 70 switches. The layout is 100% functional and hosts "operation sessions" for me only, as well as sessions with some of my friends over to help every now and then. The layout is ready for me to tackle actual scenery once I muster the courage.

The cardboard: I use cardboard to make mock ups of my proposed final land contours. It is far cheaper and easier to make any adjustments/modifications using cardboard than time/labor/$$ intensive final scenery only to discover your cut is too deep, slope too steep, etc. This was the case in the above: I will be lowering the height of the cut to more "typical" proportions. Thank you cardboard for helping me to see that.

All fer now!

Andre

@laming- Thank you for your comment on my ALCO FA'a by Lionel (Lionel never called them anything but "Alco AA" units by the way, I looked back in the original catalogs).  I liked your text on your HO layout, it seems quite a undertaking.  Perhaps you might include a few more pictures somewhere later on.

Best Wishes

Don

Hi Don!

Ah... "nomenclature". Lionel was all about fun and simplicity "back then". (A good thing, IMHO.) They did whatever was needed in order to make the model fit around 027/031 curves/etc.

They also used their terminology loosely. (Such as "Alco AA". Which term only works if there's two units, both being cab type bodies.)

As a holdover from my HO modeling (where I can be somewhat a "rivet counter")... the closest I can tell is the Lionel "Alco AA" is a mix between the Alco FA1 and FA2 prototypes with doses of whimsy for good measure.

BUT... again IMHO... the end result is a pleasing little Alco car body unit.

Of those, for the cast frame versions: The Rock Island and Erie are my favorites.

Of the stamped frames, I have several, with the Santa Fe blue/yellow versions being a favorite.

The beauty of Lionel's (and Marx) traditional-sized offerings is there's no mistaking them for a sincere effort to produce a prototype model. They're toys first and foremost... which means the switch on my "rivet counting" tendencies magically get flipped to the "OFF" position but the enjoyment level switch remains "ON".

Does that make sense?

erdnA

How about a Kusan FA?

@laming-re your comment...YES it makes sense.  I thank you for your kind and understanding opinion.  Candidly, in those long bygone days of the 1950's when the "orange and blue" boxes appeared under the tree, I don't recall worrying much about scale detail, all I cared about was getting the wrapping off and putting it on the track!!

@pennsyfan - loved the Kusan !  What other railroad could keep that round white satellite in the air over the flatcar !!

Best wishes to all, hope your week goes well

Don

AND... here's an example of some of my 3-rail engines that should qualify for the topic in process!

A pair of shiny newfangled Alco "something or others" are being looked over by a couple of old head Hoggers. It appears one of them is pointing out this newest arrival on the rails of their home road. No doubt the men have either skepticism or enthusiasm resident in them as they stand in front of their steam powered counterparts surveying the newest intruders to arrive into the steam world of railroading. No doubt, though, both of them see the future for railroading sitting on the rails before them.

EDIT..

About the pic: Shot on my small shelf layout bench work that can't make up its mind what exactly it's supposed to be. In this case, it was used as a background to see how well the traditional sized 3 rail  trains would mesh with "sincere" scenery. (Such as on the backdrops.) My conclusion was the traditional trains, both the diesels and the steam engines, looked pretty stinkin' good in such a setting!

Andre

Don:

I completely understand, and I completely "get", the appeal of such trains!

In fact, the way I perceive it for me:

My HO satisfies my scale cravings. This is where I can indulge to whatever depth my rivet counting wants to dive into. (Which is getting less and less deep with age! HO scale requires continued good eyesight and adept dexterity.)

HOWEVER...

For some time now, I've had interest in the traditional sized 3 rail trains. Such model trains appeal to my senses in totally different ways than my HO stuff. I see them as a fun way to enjoy miniature trains running on miniature tracks. The fact that the tracks have 3 rails becomes a non-issue because my mind tells me those traditional sized trains thereon are "toys". Thus, they're not required to be "ultra realistic", track included. Instead, their purpose would be vehicles for me to simply enjoy seeing miniature trains running about on miniature tracks and therefore "good enough" is good enough to be excellent!

FURTHER...

Candidly speaking, I think traditional 3-rail is a perfect medium for taking us well into our aging years. More so as our eyesight and dexterity begins to be noticeably "less" than it was in our younger years.

Andre

There comes a time when 2 rail track looks wrong.  I was HO for my first 30 years. 

Here is a potpourri of F units and similar and other stuff.   In stall 5, there is an FA2 and stall 8 has an F3.    In machine shop stall 11 there is an FP7 and next to it in machine shop 12 is one of the FM Cliners.

Williams F 3 Santa Fe set purchased at a train show a few years ago. The set consisted of A-B-A engines and 4 aluminum pass. cars. I thought it was a good deal for about $250.

@laming- Andre great thoughts, I agree.  Thanks for the insights.

Don

I have some friends who are really into Lego's and I gave them a book on building Lego trains.  About 4 months later they gave me a gift of a Lego FL-9 from the book.  All I had to do was make some decals and put them on.  Unfortunately, it is not quite the size to fit O scale track and I printed out a section of Lego track and put the engine in a storage yard.

Marty

I forgot these Alco FAs who are “hanging out” on the transfer table….

Peter

My favorite railroad on my Christmas layout one year...

RMT 'BEEFs' on Corsair-29's gone-but-not-forgotten layout.

Enjoy.

Walter

OK I admit it, I am "grasping at straws" to find more cab units under the "similar diesel's" rubric...these I suppose are not really that similar but they did after all pre-date most of the other ones pictured by a decade or more.  All Union Pacific by railroad.

First the M10000 which streaked across the country in February 1934.  This version by Marx 1936-37

Later on the UP improved their streamliner and brought forth the M10005 City of Denver in 1936.  This train by Marx came in many color schemes and was available both pre and post war...two are shown below. The versions shown below are both from the 1950's.

OK I will stop I promise!!

Don

Boston & Maine #4257, Santa Fe #20, and Amtrak #102, are Atlas O models.

MELGAR

@MELGAR posted:

Boston & Maine #4257, Santa Fe #20, and Amtrak #102, are Atlas O models.

MELGAR

All gorgeous but that Boston & Maine is spectacular, especially on your New England layout, Melgar.

Since this topic has expanded to all cab units, here are mine.

3rd Rail F3 with correct number boards for PRR

3rd Rail E7

Atlas Erie Built

Atlas F3

Lionel Centipede

Lionel E6

Lionel E7

Lionel Freight Sharks

Lionel PA1

Weaver Passenger Sharks

@trumpettrain posted:

Here's a favorite livery of mine ... the D&H  PA 1  by WbB.  I have an ABA set of these.  Both A units are powered.

Hello Patrick,

This particular livery saved me much time once.  I was leaving Ajin Precision in Seoul and had a D&H unit in my luggage.  Customs wanted to have a closer look at what I had all wrapped up in tissue.  Once the inspector saw a model train, two other inspectors came over and were chatting among themselves with big smiles.  Really brought out the inner child.  Wish I could have been part of the conversation. 

I guess this hobby is a universal source of fun.

Lou N

Some of my carbody units;

A K-Line F Unit in MTA paint for the LIRR.  I don't think FL9s ran out on the Island but some of those NH FL9s probably wore a similar scheme for MetroNorth.

Some AlCo FAs.  The Snap-On is a Weaver, the Wabash and the NYC are K-Line.

An AA set of Lionel Alaska F3s and an A-B-A set of RMT BEEFs (maybe F1.5s)

A bunch of NYC carbody untis,some K-Line AlCo FAs, a Lionel FT, a MTH Rail King F3B, and a RMT BEEF powerd B unit.

My Williams New Haven from around 1998 also have the B-Unit add on sharp looking paint scheme and great pullers.

Well I really loved this thread, so I went through my archives to see if I could find any more shots of my cab units.  So here are a few more

The classic Lionel 2344 F3 from 1950-1952

The Lionel Alco FA #8351 from 1973-1975

The # 2344 F3 with train - "chicken wire" roof vents.

The Lionel #2240 Wabash F3 from 1956

The Marx B&O F3 units from 1953-1954, 1958, & 1967

The Marx Santa Fe E7 from 1952

The Williams Amtrak F59PH (Surfliner livery) from 2022

Best Wishes for a great weekend

Don

@coach joe posted:

Some AlCo FAs.  The Snap-On is a Weaver, the Wabash and the NYC are K-Line.

Oh dear... I didn't know K-Line had made a Wabash FA.

Hmmm.

Andre

Three NYO&W F-3's wait for  a high ball.  The 802 , farthest away has the Roscoe Express passenger train while the two other units are in freight service.