Simple question about TMCC locos

All TMCC locos default to "conventional operation" when there is no TMCC signal present.

Thanks for the info Rick,

So, why is it such a big deal that Lionel Plus locos can run in either conventional or controller mode?   It sounds as if TMCC has been that way for 20 years???

@Mannyrock posted:

Thanks for the info Rick,

So, why is it such a big deal that Lionel Plus locos can run in either conventional or controller mode?   It sounds as if TMCC has been that way for 20 years???

Because people want the medium valued engines to operate with a Legacy system (in TMCC mode), at the same time those who don't want Legacy control can use the App, Universal remote, or conventional.

Correct. Lionel has always been good about backwards compatability. Tmcc and Legacy locos could always be operated via Tmcc /Legacy and conventionally.

In fact . Many of the Lionchief engines were previously offered with Tmcc years ago.

I believe early Lionchief offerings only operate via their specific controller.

Lionchief was designed as a simpler control system for younger operators or those not comfortable with Tmcc or Legacy.

****ed if you do and ****ed if you don't I guess.

I'm not a fan of Lionchief. IMO .The constant reinvention of it creates confusion.

Mannyrock,

You hit the nail on the head.  I've seen many people try to explain "running both conventional and TMCC in command mode at the same time" but your explanation is the clearest because it best captures the notion of "on the same track as well as at the same time".

However when you try the method you captured in your post you'll find that it's not easy. The range of conventional operation is quite limited, as well as up high on the transformer handle setting range.  This is not because of constraints found with conventional operation, but because setting the transformer handle too low causes the TMCC loco to be starved for voltage.  It then starts to act erratically and becomes a target to be struck by the conventional loco in a collision.

By the way: Same story with running conventional and LionChief, LionChief +, or LionChief 2.0 (when controlled by its LionChief controller) on the same track at the same time

Mike

Well,  thanks for all of this great info.  I thought that TMCC new/old stock might be for me.  But, given the difficulties or running simultaneous conventional and TMCC engines, plus the fact that it at appears that many of the TMCC diesels have the old Pullmore motors, seem like a big negative for me. Especially since they appear to cost the same as the new Lionchief Plus. 

@Mannyrock posted:

plus the fact that it at appears that many of the TMCC diesels have the old Pullmore motors, seem like a big negative for me. Especially since they appear to cost the same as the new Lionchief Plus.

Not sure in what catalog time frame you're looking in but there have been plenty of TMCC diesels produced.

@RickO posted:

In fact . Many of the Lionchief engines were previously offered with Tmcc years ago.

I think you mean LionMaster, right?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think you mean LionMaster, right?

More than that John. The semi scale Berkshires , Mikados and Pacific's to name a few.

I owned the Mike and Berk. They were offered separately and in sets. ( sold them off when I went scale)

I believe the K Line tooled 0-4-0s had TMCC as well.

There are probably others if one did some digging

However , thats a bit more difficult  since Lionels catalog archives only go back to what, 2010?

The mid 2000's saw TMCC as the Lionchief for the traditional sized/ semi- scale hobbyist

I've run conventional and TMCC engines, one at a time, on the same track ever since the first TrainMaster was first available 25 years ago. That track is powered by a ZW with a Lionel Legacy "black wire" attached to the common terminal on the ZW. When I want to run older conventional engines (e.g. Lionel post-war, MTH "PS1", etc) Legacy is turned off and the ZW throttle and whistle is used. When I want to run Lionel TMCC, Legacy or LionChief engines I raise the ZW voltage to a fixed voltage of 18 VAC, turn on the Legacy system, and use its hand-held controller. Of course, you can substitute Legacy base with the TMCC base for the non-Legacy Lionel products.

TMCC locos want 15-18 volts AC to work all features, and running with Conventionals at the 10v to get reasonable speeds, means the TMCCs will starve for voltage. One or the other will be catching up all the time.

I THINK what Lionel is trying to convey is that you can run both types, but not at the same  time.

You can run conventional locomotives using the CAB 1 and Legacy CAB 2 handhelds IF you have a transformer or power supply where voltage can be controlled by the CAB 1 or 2,  So you are really just allowing walkaround control.  That for me, is a lot!  Makes the Conventional locos much more responsive and fun.

@RickO posted:

More than that John. The semi scale Berkshires , Mikados and Pacific's to name a few.

I never heard them called Lionchief, maybe I was not listening.