Smoke unit fan stopped

Hey John,

 

Sounds like your fan motor is probably blown. I would not play with the smoke unit so that you don't have to worry about making the problem worse and/or damaging something else. Ship her off to Ohio and Mike and the gang at Lionel Customer Service will get her back to you in no time. Typically once received they have it shipping back within 2-3 days. 

 

I had to send my E6 back a lot and they did a wonderful job helping me. 

I sent my Milwaukee Road 261 back yesterday with the same problem.  I have had it for about 2 months and ran without any problems.  In last couple of weeks it started to have smoke issues with the cab light blinking.  I tried to reset it several times and that fixed it temporary, but same thing happened over again.  To let you know, the RMA I received from Lionel said the turn around time right now on repairs is about 3 weeks. 

Thank you for up to date experiences.  No sense wasting time.  I don't need it now anyway.  Is a shame though that two of the last three products either had failure out of the box or soon thereafter.  I used to buy slightly used, 1-3 year old locos that had some tracktime.  Then of of them had a tough to figure problem.   

 

Oh well, I'm tickled playing with trains.  Thanks again, John

It seems Lionel had a bad "bad batch " of smoke unit fan motors in the recent stuff. The one in my legacy k4 was noisey to begin with quit altogether a year later. I opted to change it myself as it was chaeper than one way shipping.

John,

I agree with you that it is frustrating with the problems right out the box.  My Milwaukee Road also had Marker Light problem with it right out of the box.  I asked Lionel about it hoping they would send me the part instead of me sending it to them, but they told me I would need to send it in.  I decided to hold off on it since it was the holidays and it was minor problem.  However, when the smoke problem started, I went ahead and got the RMA.   I also sent an engine back to MTH yesterday too that is also under warranty. I have had MTH engine for 7 months.  I will be curious to see which one comes back first since I sent them both out the same day.  I have read a lot about customer service experiences with MTH and Lionel so it will be interesting to see what happens since this is my first time sending anything back.  I am not in any rush to get them back, but just want both of them fixed and working properly again.  Ken

 

Hi Ken, 

My last issue was doors not opening in one of my R30 Subway Set cars.  I must say, it went smoothly and it worked when returned.  Like most people say though, shouldn't have to pay anything to get something to work that should work to begin with??

I gave up on Mike's in the 90's after I returned a loco twice & it still didn't work.  When I took it to York the line was so long I simply gave up.  I wrote (snail mail back then), got no help.  I phoned and matter of factly told to ship it back again.  About that time I discovered Just Trains in Delaware.  I recall they stopped selling their stuff for awhile.  That's when they were on the Kirkwood Hwy.  

Oh well, I'm actually having fun with an old 726 using genuine smoke pellets... what a smell!

John

The engine I sent back to Lionel is my first Legacy engine.  I realized before buying it... I read about some of the smoke issues with Legacy engines.  I was interested in the engine, but hesitated in buying it.  I looked at it for about 4 months on the shelf before deciding to buy it.  In sending it back I hope Lionel takes the time to find the problem because the problem with the smoke unit does not happen until the engine is running for 5 to 10 min.  I wonder how much time Lionel spends running a engine when it is sent back to them?  My fear is getting it back and still not work normally.

 

As far as the problems with my MTH engine, it is more of a obvious problem than the problem with my Lionel engine...the engine no longer runs normally.   The dealer I bought it from told me to send it back and he said he will talk to MTH if there is a problem getting it repaired.  When I called to get RMA from MTH, the customer service rep was very friendly and helpful. 

It has been stated  in the past from Lionels service dept that all repaired locos are tested extensively after they are repaired, I belive they mentioned running them a couple hours to be sure the problem was solved.

Ken, I think if you're the first buyer to have a particular problem, you're in a different place than if you're the hundredth.  By then they know what's wrong.

I don't pre order locos.  I like to see what I'm buying and give it time to have a reputation.  The Legacy locos are a different fun than conventional.  I assume the risk that it will need something, maybe sooner than later.

Smoke fan motors are just a pain and I have replaced several and head warranty work done on several others. I agree that it is disappointing to have to send them in but the work that Lionel is doing these days is top notch and I have gotten all of my issues resolved. Still a pain.............

Funny running an old 2020 today and the smoke out put is outstanding and my Legacy smoke units fail quickly. My sd 70's have been problems-not so on the asc6000's.

Well I shipped it off this afternoon.  Last job was pretty fast.  Thanks to everyone for the advice, John...

I keep a couple of spare smoke motors around, they are a somewhat high failure item.  However, overfilling and getting smoke fluid into the bronze bearings will kill them as well.  I've actually opened some up and cleaned and lubed the fan motor to bring them back.

Is there any way to tell if it's an overfilling situation?  Or other?

I too had a failed fan motor on a legacy alco PA. Very fast Lionel repair turnaround 14days. Symptoms no smoke and flickering cab lights.

I clean the bearings with CRC or contact cleaner and then use a very light oil ( I use gun oil ) to lube it.  If it runs properly, I put it back in and use it.  I have a couple that I did that to a year ago, still running.

Is there any way to tell if there has been overfilling damage?

Usually the puddle of smoke fluid in the fan chamber is the first clue.

Thank you John.  It may be obvious, I haven't been into one of these units to see it first hand.  It seems kind of strange to me if the electronics or fan motors or whatever is easily damaged by overflowing the the chamber, why not have an overflow port?  To channel fluid away from sensitive parts? 

Interesting question. Perhaps they don't want the smoke being exhausted out the overflow port.  Of course, you could direct that down by the cylinders and call it a feature!

 

I know that it's pretty common to kill the fan with smoke fluid, though I would have thought it's composition would be similar to lubricating oil, it's obviously not.

Or put the sensitive parts in a not so available location.  Next time I have an out or warranty experience I will see what's in there.  Thank you John 

FWIW the fan on these locos is horizontally mounted as are many of the newer legacy smoke units as opposed to the vertical mount fan motors common in older TMCC steamer. The horizontal mount  makes it "less likely"( not impossible) that fliud would get into the motor.If that overfull I would think the bottom of the boiler or the pilot would have fluid on it as well.

 

 

 

This style is found in the legacy pacifics, the new berks and used for the whistle steam feature on many locos has the fan motor in a seperate housing conntcted to the smoke resevior  by "aquarium type" tubing, and is even more difficult to flood.

 

Well, I can tell you what's in there, an empty chamber with a vent at the top and the fan impeller inside.  If you get fluid up to the top vent, it flows down over the motor and into the top bearing.

Interesting, all the MTH and Lionel smoke units I've taken apart have had the fan motor mounted on the bottom.  The one Legacy model I've opened has it on the bottom as well, it's the Conrail SD-80 from a couple years back. 

 

If these horizontal units are the ones that are regularly failing, I wonder why?

 

I've seen plenty of locomotives with smoke fluid all over the pilots and lower boiler.

Obviously many different variables to consider, the two units I posted pictures of are out of "newer legacy" steamers, I can't speak for diesels I only have two older ones, suppose I could search Lionels parts some more. My first generation legacy berk and m1b have the older style units.

 

These newer units actually mount under the boiler as opposed to on the locomotive chassis, like older TMCC steamers.

 

As I've mention on all of the other "smoke unit problem threads". like my legacy k-4, many of these motors were/are bad right out of the box. My k4 was noisy from the git go, I oiled the bushing and it quieted a bit and ran another year.

 

Then it quit altogether, replaced it with a new one and the difference was night and day. The original vibrated so bad I think I have nerve damage in my fingers. The new one almost makes no noise at all, and none of the vibration either.

I have a Lionel Berkshire 6-38050 with a bad motor, how tough is this to replace? I am getting smoke but no fan.

 

 

thanks RickO

 

I opened it up a few months ago, removed the top board, changed the batting and drilled a hole in the board to increase smoke output. When I put it all back together the motor wasn't working.

It wasn't clear to me then how to remove the whole unit including the motor since I had only removed the top board, what am I missing?

thanks for your help.

Gerry

The fan housing is screwed onto the bottom of the board with 2 screws, unscrew those and the housing drops down, gently pull off the fan impeller with a needlenose and then you will see the two screws holding the motor onto the bottom of the housing.

 

I'm concerned that the motor didn't work after you did the mod, is it possible that you may have clipped one of the circuits on the board with the drill bit. I've done this mod as well and didn't feel comfortable using anything larger than a 1/4" bit.

 

I assume your not hearing the fan motor running? Is it possible you blocked the fan outlet with too much wicking?

 

Heres a link to the parts breakdown this may help visualize how things go together.

http://www.lionel.com/Customer...9f-a00f-0056793eeae9

It's also real easy to either not push the fan impeller on far enough, or too far and stop it that way.

 

RickO, that fan motor appears to be on the bottom of the fan chamber, not the side.  Am I seeing this incorrectly?

If your fan housing is of the plastic variety, I'd advise being careful when tightening the screws for the fan motor. Don't over-tighten them as they can rip clean through the plastic. I've had a couple of recent locomotives delivered with faulty smoke units, where investigation showed this to have been done at the factory. Fortunately it's an easy fix, (If you can get the screws out.) as you can use the extra holes provided for an alternate motor mounting. Also, I'd advise being careful to support the fan motor when pressing the fan back into place, as this could also put undue strain on the motor housing. 

Which one? The last one I posted is the "older style" smoke unit found in Gerrys locomotive and yes, has the fan motor on the bottom.

I scrolled back and realized that you slipped another photo in.

Thanks everyone for jumping in with solutions.

 

I took the shell off and removed the top board. Powered the engine. Fan motor still not working but heating element is doing its job.

 

Tried using my cab-1 aux 9 function. Fan came on for about 3 seconds then stopped, even if I contiued to press the aux 9 button. Each time I tried, the fan only operated for the same 3 seconds and then stopped again, never a continuous operation.

 

any ideas?  thanks again!

Does the fan make any noise as it runs?  does it seem like it's binding up or just not getting any power?

 

Can you test the fan motor with a 5VDC supply and see if it'll continuously run?

 gunrunnerjohn,

 

will try to get a tester on the output side. thanks

 

another question, where exactly does the U-shaped rectangular rubber gasket rest when it all goes back together.

thank you.

 

 

 

Are you talking about the gasket between the two smoke chambers or for the motor? 

 I think between smoke chambers, incuded picture below, thanks

Well, that one would clearly be in that orientation, or it would block the air hole between the chambers.

got it, thought it went somewhere horizontally!

 

still getting intermitent fan operation but having the gasket in the right spot is at least giving me better smoke output.