Ahhh glad to see you're here. press on.
Joe, I am not an electronics whizbang but I can come up with some ideas that you may consider trying. I think it might help if you kept a log of events, including time, so you have an idea of what conditions are present.
I had suggested disconnecting wifi and tethering remote to eliminate (or reduce) the possibility of interference to comms between your hand and the TIU.
It is theoretically possible that some RFI from a source near (or even in) your home is inducing a signal in your tracks. A whizbang might have some ideas on how to detect it. If problems develop only during certain times, it is possible that some business or factory near you runs certain operations or tests at certain hours.
If problems develop after your system has been on awhile, it is possible that the characteristics of some component in TIU or remote or loco are altering as it heats up. Have you tried other remotes or TIUs? If you only have one of each, perhaps a friend will loan you same.
Have you used a voltmeter to check on-track voltage when the 3 locos are operating? Even with 14-gauge wire, a poor connection can have untoward results.
Have you tried removing one loco or piece of rolling stock at a time to see if it makes a difference?
Have you turned off fluorescent lights or lights with dimmer switches in your home?
Have you chatted with neighbors to ascertain if one has some piece of equipment running?
Have you redownloaded and reinstalled the TIU and remote software?
Re your comment about reading track signal: Sometimes remotes do odd things. Occasionally I will have a remote that will not adjust speed of one loco---readout of speed won't change--- but all other locos at the same time work fine. Or one remote can't find a loco but the other 3 remotes do.
One thing I'm not clear on: do your problems show up regardless of what loco you're using or is leaded in a "lashup?"
I have another question, there are several references to "turning off the wifi"... My understanding is that the wireless throttles work on 900 MHz on a proprietary communication system.
Wifi is an international standard protocol, and runs on either 2.4 GHz or 5GHz.
So are the references to WiFi meant to be really the "wireless throttle", or is there some add on I don't know about to acutally use WiFi, or is someone thinking that WiFi interferes with wireless DCS?
Greg
Engineer-Joe posted:OK riddle me this one!
I put the troubled lead engine on the track this morning. I pressed menu, advanced, info, and picked the engine. It read out like it should the info and battery Hi which I believe means it's charging.
I then try and check track signal with that engine. Instead it keeps reading out all the info???? That sure seems like a software glitch to me. Maybe this remote is failing, because it has had a rough life.
The engine performed perfectly on it's own by the way. It accepted speed, direction and horn commands perfectly everywhere on the loop.
I then try and check track signal with that engine. Instead it keeps reading out all the info???? That sure seems like a software glitch to me..
Kinda agree...makes you wonder if you tested with TIU an remote using 4.20 if the issues went away.
A few things...
Instead it keeps reading out all the info???? That sure seems like a software glitch to me. Maybe this remote is failing, because it has had a rough life.
If you don't exit things the way DCS wants you to, typically by backing out the way that you came in (so to speak), you may be subject to a "persistence of information". I suspect that's the case with the INFO screen. Regardless, io big deal, just part and parcel of DCS' behavior since forever.
there are several references to "turning off the wifi"
That means shutting down the DCS App and turning off the WIU.
My understanding is that the wireless throttles work on 900 MHz on a proprietary communication system.
There is no such thing as "wireless throttle" terminology in DCS. The DCS Remote talks to the TIU at 900 MHz and the DCS App talks to the WIU at 2.4 (or higher, depending on your smart device and router) over WiFi.
Thanks Barry, I get where the wifi reference may have come from, i.e. someone using the app. I thought Joe said he was using the MTH 900MHz throttles, but I'll not derail this topic further, I'll look up the information about how the TIU interfaces to a network and thus wifi and then the app on a smart phone (I think this is how it goes).
Regards, Greg
Joe, When you press info, it will continue to come back until you select the engine and at least operate some function like motion, whistle or coupler. If you go directly to some other control function like TS or Reset it seems to default back to the info data.
As far as Battery test, it is a combination test. It measures the voltage at the battery plug terminal and is looking for a voltage around 2.5-2.8 volts for a normal reading. (A good battery installed). IF you unplugged the battery it would read high because you would see a No Load 5V reading. If you plug a BCR in and immediately read it, it would read low (as the BCR charges from 0V to 5V. When BCR got to 2.5V it would read OK or normal, and as the BCR continues to charge up to 5V it would read high. You can watch this effect if you plug a VM into the charge port.
A dead or shorted battery acts like a short and drags down the voltage at the battery port and you would read low. If really dead or dead cell, the audio would also reduce to half output after start up as the processor recognizes the low voltage and lowers audio output.
There is a whole host of hardware faults on the Power Supply board that can cause these readings too. A high on a battery is most likely a hardware fault, or the wrong battery, or a BCR.
PS-3 is different and some board file where not modified for the Supercap reading, and they read differently, usually high. G
Thanks G. I tested the engine and it performed well. I will try to charge it.
I'll be in contact with you again. I'm going to swap out some power cables between the transformer and the TIU. They are solid and I always use stranded. I'm looking at everything.
I was kinda thinking about what type of wire you're using outside. You mentioned 14 gauge which seems on the small side. It isn't speaker or zip wire is it? 12 gauge low voltage wire for landscaping lights works great as it's made for outdoors and is reasonable. I see 250' rolls on eBay for like $100.00 
I get good power with 14 at the lengths I'm using. I wouldn't think I need 12 as I'm not running the wire around the outsides? The voltage loss seems minimal and the trains run good. I have run up to six engines with the power loss minimal. They don't seem to draw as much as I'd expect. The smoke units seem to be the factor. Have six + engines with the smoke units all on, Maybe I'd notice more. I'll have to try some 12 again and see now that I have so many engines.
The signal seems better with 14 when I tested both years ago inside the house. Of course that's subject to change I guess? I bought more new wire and I'll replace as needed. It's 14/2 outside low voltage cable. I like the stranding. Maybe the newer stuff with higher aluminum is failing? I don't think it's as pure of copper anymore?
Maybe something is corroding the wires? I get good track voltage with single engines and all tens for signal. So I need to do the testing under heavier loads and find the problem. The way they run, I'd swear they're getting good power. I was using brass splitjaw clamps on Aristo stainless. I just got a box of stainless clamps to see if there's any difference.
I'm waiting for tomorrow as the temps will be cooler they say. My trains don't like the high temps any more than I do. I thought I left AZ behind? I swear I smelled that old burnt earth smell the other day. 
Just a thought here, but do you have any squirrels or rodents that frequent your back yard? Not sure your wires are even accessible? However, before we moved a few years ago we had overhead utilities coming to the house. Every 3-4 years they had to replace the cable TV line to our house because the squirrels would chew through it. Cable guys said that squirrels were their biggest problem. They seem to like chewing on wires so I just thought I would mention it as a long shot. BTW, you have a really nice setup there and your home and back yard look really nice too.
The cable TV wires are wrapped with a paper type insulation. I have heard that the squirrels like it as it tastes like salt to them.
I am checking the layout's wires as we do have many squirrels in the yard. I'm hoping with all the food around they leave the wires alone. Years ago I did find a low voltage lighting cable cut in half. I think it was rabbits that did it. They were sheltered under my old shed where the cable ran through. I now have a solid concrete foundation and a fenced yard.
Well most of this is embarrassing but I went public, so I must post.
#1 culprit seems to be my poor housekeeping. I have 2 identical lash-ups for the same three engines. The older one has the engines pointed a different direction. That caused havoc while I was troubleshooting and confused the heck out of me until I found it. The lead unit was actually running backwards but the others shoved it around the layout! I was pacing them to check for speed issues and noticed it right away. It seems when the wheels are hoping, the engine can't talk to the remote!
#2 is watchdog signal that I'm still chasing. In certain instances, engines either miss the watchdog, or won't show up in the active screens. I'm still troubleshooting this. I believe there maybe some issue switching between using the WIFI, and then unplugging it. I started a new post for that.
I then grabbed an old remote that has other issues. The battery door is back causing me grief as the remote freezes when there's a power glitch from that door being touched. It was fixed but has since gotten worse.
I could not simulate the loss of control as right now the layout ran fine again? I did not start with WIFI as I did that day though. I need to use another replacement remote that I already purchased. I ran into problems adding engines and never finished converting to it.
#3 track wiring. Although there maybe some better upgrades here, the wiring is stable and in fine condition the best I can tell. There's more of an issue at the farthest end of the most distant blocks where power drops slightly. With 3 G scale engines and smoke running, there is still perfect tens for signal. I do see a power dip in that the engines raise the amp draw at these 2 block's ends, doubling it. The engines maintain their speed as the boards correct the drop. I may or may not fix this when I get time. It is really noticeable with the smoke on, on several engines running. With the smoke off, it's much less of an issue.
#4 Is just a guess right now from me. DCS seems to be a hit or miss for me with this revision. Some days the engines won't come up to active or miss the watchdog as I described above. After power cycles, or usually the next time I run the layout, there are no problems whatsoever? It either is not booting up fully or maybe not shutting down fully??? Maybe there's some instance that running lashups or certain conditions trigger this???
I read some other posts awhile back, that users noticed this exact issue. This cure is elusive to me now as it shows up when it feels like it. It maybe interference as Casey suggested? I can't cure it when it's intermittent.
Edit: I just put seven engines on the rails and built new lash-up, with no change to the layout. It pulls about five amps @ 21+ volts at the rails(smoke ON). The signal was perfect and all engines responded.
It seems like a new lashup build works good. I'm wondering if it's just a bad remote, software load to the bad remote, or some lash-up build degrade thing's going on. It seems it works good when first built. With some mistakes I make, it's hard to pin down what's happening yet. Why one day a couple engines don't see any watchdog and won't come up active? Today, I load the components up with a heavier amp load piling on the engines, and everything's fine?
I'll find it or burn something up trying!
(edited to say the smoke was on in the video)
Ah boy. What's this??? Anything new?? I'll be back with video.....
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Joe, it is a sign of a real man that can publicly admit an error on his part. "Telling all" should get you to solutions faster, even if it could be a bit embarrassing for you. Good for you, I mean it.
Keep attacking the problems. It sounds like multiple problems. Keep trying the most simple test cases you can, no wifi, tethered throttles, etc.
Don't give up.
Greg
Can someone please post the definition of stalking so he can read it. I don't need any cheerleader.
I'm helping several people with DCS issues.
Your post is one of the few that started out blaming the software, and it's the first I have heard of issues with the MTH software.
I'm trying to learn and help my friends.
Greg
Maybe I have 2 bad remotes? I can't pin it down. One works good ( call it remote #1) and then sometimes fails or should I say messes up? It's the one with the picture posted above about a weird screen. I bought a third remote (#3) used, and it works in the basement adding engines to TIU #1 for O scale. I took it outside and it won't find any engines to add on TIU #3?
The first remote (#1) I described is old and abused. I ran it for over ten years and it even sat in the rain. It still works. I changed the thumbwheel. The latest upgrade to 5.0 maybe where it fails? I built a large lash-up today that would allow ten engines max. I labeled the lead engine as CSX -8. When I started the lash-up it set a BNSF -8 at the lead? When I scrolled the thumbwheel one engine ran the wrong direction. I pressed the direction button and that issue cleared up.
I decided to try another remote (#3) and that's where I can't add my G scale engines to. It has TIU#3 for my outside layout added to it. So I reset that remote and tried again. Yes, of course I tried it tethered too. Doesn't make any difference. That remote worked in the basement with TIU #1. Probably why it was for sale?
Now I'll try my newest remote (#2) and see what that does. It found an engine already added and it fired right up. I need to delete it and see if that remote can find it again on the outside layout. Most engines were added inside already during the winter.
I bet I'm doing something wrong here. I'm trying to pin down issues and it's tuff when I'm adding variables. I wish I knew any known bugs. It would help with troubleshooting. I don't believe there's any worth in hiding from the critics who wait to pounce on the system. It has always worked for me and will continue to.
Wow. I was wrong again. When I left to type the above post the remote finally added it's first engine after a reset. No tether was used. I checked track signal and it says ten? The sounds were mainly all muted from the lash-up build earlier. I had to reset the engine with a feature reset. That seems like a bug lately. Engine's feature sounds are left all over the chart after building or running in a lash-up.
Ive noticed in 5.0 that they are left all over the charts after a track signal test as well. More often than not my locos come out of signal test with muted sound or no sound or half sound. Its anoying but I'll only be doing signal tests until the rewiring is done.
Matt,
It's been my experience that the loss of sound after a signal test is an all or nothing type deal. Either the engine loses sounds or it doesn't.
Further, it seems to me that the issue is more of an engine-related one than related to a particular DCS version. Some engines are prone to losing sounds and some are not, regardless of the version of DCS being used.
Regardless, a Feature Reset never fails to restore the sounds, albeit along with resetting all other engine features and typically setting sounds to high volumes.
Barry, admittedly I wasn't paying that much attention to the issue it was something I noticed since every time I wired a block I did a signal test and a function test. I was using the same three locos one on each independent loop. I can say each one was exhibiting the behavior however my PS3 0-4-0 for sure did it a bunch as I was using that one primarily due to its short pickup roller base and no pickups on the tender. Now here is the strange part, most of the time it would come out of test with no sound, I would reset it to get the sound back. Sometimes it would come back with sound and everything was fine and then a couple of times it came out of reset and I could barely hear the sound and all I needed to do was turn up the volume. I was doing factory reset on the loco but next time I will just try feature reset as it is simpler
When sounds are lost after a signal test, I find the cure is invariably to hit the volume up button 6-10 times. I've never had to use any type of reset.
Robert,
Of course, that also typically works. However, I've had instances when it either took more than a dozen button presses or didn't work at all after 20 presses.
One can also go into the Sound Menu and raise individual sound levels.
Regardless, a Feature Reset always works the first time, every time, so that's what I use.
 | This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store! |
After a feature reset, are not all volume levels, speed levels, smoke on/off also reset and have to be revised?
yes
Robert,
After a feature reset, are not all volume levels, speed levels, smoke on/off also reset and have to be revised?
As I already stated previously:
"Regardless, a Feature Reset never fails to restore the sounds, albeit along with resetting all other engine features and typically setting sounds to high volumes."
Since this method is unfailingly reliable and I rarely fiddle with many settings, this works fine for me.
Im with you Barry, I rarely fiddle with many settings and since I am only doing prolific signal testing at this one time, its not that big of a deal to me, Ill just reset em
Some of the.....flaws? to DCS we get used to. There is having to reset the sounds on certain engines in certain instances after using the engine to check the track signal strength. When several issues pop up, it's more difficult to tell what's happening because of some of these flaws cause confusion. When my remote freezes, it takes me back to an old version where the issues were different back then.
I am tempted to revert to 4.2 to see what happens. It won't allow me to use the new WIFI system and I am confused. I can't decide because I have to wait for the pro version anyways. I'm sure that the new WIFI app will take some getting used to it's quirks as well. So take some steps back or sit and wait for things to get better?
In the meantime I can eliminate any flaws to my system that are controlled by me. I believe that for now, the wiring is fine. I'm sticking with DC because I don't want to add another variable until everything is ironed out. How I can get all tens for signal one day and the engines act like there's no signal another day, I still am looking for the culprit? With screens like I posted above, I can't help but to believe there's at least a single issue with 5.0's software or my system's failure to execute it.
I'm adding engines one at a time to another remote (#3) and it's taking about ten minutes per engine! I don't wish to copy an old remote's software that has issues. Maybe that would not have mattered?
Joe,
I'm adding engines one at a time to another remote (#3) and it's taking about ten minutes per engine!
For me, that's just about conclusive proof that it isn't DCS 5.0 that's the problem. You definitely have something else going on.
Check that remote to make sure that it contains only the TIUs that are in use, and that it has all of those.
Barry Broskowitz posted:Joe,
I'm adding engines one at a time to another remote (#3) and it's taking about ten minutes per engine!
For me, that's just about conclusive proof that it isn't DCS 5.0 that's the problem. You definitely have something else going on.
Check that remote to make sure that it contains only the TIUs that are in use, and that it has all of those.
Well, It has the O scale ones in the house too. That maybe the reason it's taking so long to load?
Does that affect the running of lash-ups? Would that effect the engines not coming up to active?
How about the WIFI app.
You stink Barry! 
You couldn't have posted that earlier! 
I have been loading engines all day. It took several minutes per engine. I found that remote #3 had only two TIU's loaded. #1 and #3, I deleted TIU #1 (Oscale) and the next engine loaded in thirty seconds. That's all that's left out there to load for today. Urrggg.
Now to test that remote to see what happens to lash-ups.
Joe, all told, how many DCS locos do you have?
Joe,
You stink Barry!
Some days, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn!
Seriously, look at page 153 of The DCS O Gauge Companion:
Out of RF Range
This error message has three possible reasons for being displayed. The first is that the DCS Remote issued a command to a TIU and did not get a response. There's no immediate way of knowing if the TIU did not receive the command or if the TIU did not respond to the DCS Remote.
A second possible reason why this error message is displayed is that the TIU responded to a command issued by a DCS Remote with a message that the command could not be completed.
The third instance in which this error message may be displayed is when adding engines to the DCS Remote. If the DCS Remote contains more than one TIU; the engine being added is on a track belonging to a TIU that is not the lowest numbered TIU; and if any lower numbered TIUs are not powered on, the error message duration may be long. The error message will also be displayed if the engine has DCS ID# 99. For additional information about DCS ID# 99, refer to Appendix E: The Truth About DCS Engine ID Numbers, later in this book.
| This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store! |
Yes and guess what. You told me that last year and I deleted all the extra TIUs from remote #1.
So I'm having issues and I grab remote #3. Lucky that it only had two TIUs loaded. I saw the error message at the end of each engine load and that still did not trigger my memory. I just tried another engine that has not run all year. Took about 45 seconds to load.
That still has not proved anything to me...... other than I have little short term memory.
So now I can make up some lash-ups to see how this remote handles them.
If Joe had <100 locos and <6 TIUs, sounds like his best bet would be to have a piece of each gauge track he has feedable by TIU#1, load all locos on one of those tracks and into the same remote, and then use the clone feature to have all his remotes the same.
You folks are all way ahead of me in DCS knowledge, but I was going to ask if all the remotes not matching up could be a problem like Eng-Joe is having here? I have read here on the forum many times that they should all match up, but I only have one TIU and one remote so I have no experience in this area. I don't recall the problems one has when they don't match? RJR's post above about cloning them got me to thinking more about this so I thought I would throw it out just in case.
OK, while I have so many people's attention, once again, what is this?
How did you get a beta version of DCS 6.0?
