Standard Gauge layout planning

Frank, I highly suggest I/O commercial green carpet w/ looped shot pile.  The grass stuff is not that good to work with.

Check this out - Carpet

Here is some early vids of my layout using it  - You tube

My son and I are just starting a STD Gauge layout. Its primarily scenery oriented and will be a free standing room centerpiece.  I have been thinking a lot about the layout and have decided on 3 loops. 042,072,087. Dual crossovers between 072 and 087(Ross #4). The 042 elongated loop has dual reversing tracks in a figure eight using 042 MTH switches.(no other options exist in that size switch)

I do not mind the look of big toy trains on 042 diameter curves. Kind of like it really, because the whole thing looks toy like. Thats the whole point for us! They make us smile! On my "O" gauge layout I detest tight curves. 18 " passenger cars look best to me only on 072 and engines that are 054 requirement and smaller even though my minimum is 072.  

The wisdom of the 042 switches only time well tell. 072 switches were not possible on the elongated 042 loop. The one and only train I have is The American Flyer Presidential from 2012 catalog. The passenger cars don't go thru the 042 switch smoothly as I would like but good enough for tinplate.  13 feet 7 &3/4 " by 8 feet 1&3/4"   We will be ordering benchwork from Mianne this week. Just got the final plan today.

You mentioned green carpeting. Its interesting because I have always liked that look but as we approach that decision point we are leaning toward snow white carpet because we think it shows off the beautiful colors in a better light and without a greenish tint.

A figure 8 can be done with 72 curves and switches. I did the outside of the 8 with 42 curves and 1 regular 14" straight. The 8 part has 72 curves. You can sub 4 Ross 72 switches to make the double reverse you spoke of. On the figure 8 it should be no problem to use 57 track instead of 42.

The Standard Gauge Module Association specifies a certain carpet for its modules - you might want to check that out, it's something they have found works well.

If you are going to have 2 or 3 loops, they don't all have to be built with the same maximum diameter curves.  My 2 outside loops are 84 and 72 curves, and the 3rd inside loop has some 42 curves - there's a lot of smaller Standard Gauge equipment that works fine on the smaller curves, and it allows more meandering - the big stuff uses the outside loops.  

Also, bridges and other accessories that limit equipment size, should  not be used on the outer loops where big locos and cars may be used.

Mine is a tinplate layout, but I didn't use carpet and I didn't paint gloss either.  Flat latex painted Homasote - same simple technique used on the Carrail layout.

The carpet Rob posted is acceptable SGMA carpeting. The original Varsity green is either no longer available or special order which would make it cost prohibitive.

Very good point.  I'm pretty certain that a Super 381 will not clear an LCT Hellgate bridge, and I know the Brute will not.  So plan accordingly if you're contemplating one of those jewels.

David

Thanks Rob for the carpet links.  The indoor/outdoor stuff does seem a little rough (on my tender hands!)

The largest I'm going to run is a 408e with state cars, and a couple of 400e's with 200 series cars.  I imagine the state cars need allot of clearance.  I can only assume they will make it over the Hellgate Bridge?

I can push a Super 381 through a Hellgate bridge. I would not run it because it is so tight. The 280 bridge needs to be modified along with the 104 bridge. A MTH lighted lockon hits the frame. Mine did not like MTH switches. That was the like the wife or the trains so i miss the switches.

Frank 400e and 408s are the big stuff except a couple of pieces.

I have a continuous loop, 57" outer curves, 42" inner, with one cross over and no switches.  It all fits in a 12x20 area.  My blue comet is the only engine I have and it traverses the curves without a problem.  I actually started to make my own custom cross over but then broke down and bought a vintage piece.  All of the othe track comes from USA Track.  Kurt can get you any curves you want, you don't have to be stuck with 42 and 72. 

I went to a local carpet retailer and searched the remnants.  I got the color I wanted that fits for about $30.

Who makes the best Standard Gauge 90-degree crossing?  I see MTH has one in their track list.  Anyone else?  I don't believe Gargraves or Ross does.  How about USA Track?

Thanks, in advance, for any leads.  I'll need two of them.

David

I would seek out a nice vintage piece. At 70 years old, my 45 degree cross is still the best out there.

I would agree.  My layout has a vintage Lionel 45 degree crossing, has worked perfectly and seems to be made of heavier gauge steel than my MTH 90 degree crossing.  The MTH seems to have a kind of switching mechanism in it, so you can determine which of the approaches are powered and which are isolated from each other.  Unfortunately, this caused problems, dead spots, shorts, I had to open it up and bypass all that.  Works okay now.  Don't know anyone else making these for Standard Gauge at the moment.

Your 45 crossing is the only one out there. Does anyone have experience with Ives or American Flyer crossings. MTH makes the 90 but no 45.

Ross should make a 90 and 45 to compliment there switches. Everything all Black all business.

As a alternative to carpet for your base, I suggest using green (or any color you choose really) texture paint.  It provides a good looking "grass" like texture and is easy to apply.  I make mountains from styrofoam covered with paper mache, painted with the same texture paint as the track surface.  I'm very happy with the results.  I'll try to post some photos soon.

Dave  

We used green felt from JoAnn Fabrics

Hhhmmm.... interesting.... as I was looking into the MTH Standard Gauge 90 a bit further, it appears they have two versions:  10-4006 and 11-99006.

From what I can see via pictures online, the MTH Tinplate Traditions 10-4006 (brand new) is readily available on eBay from dealers/sellers.  And that appears to be the one that may have a switching mechanism for different power options.  The box is labeled "improved electrical design".  Looks like the center of the crossing can be set via a screw-driver or thin coin?      Can't say for sure without seeing it in person.

The 11-99006 version (LCT?) that's illustrated in the catalog has a very different appearance to it.  The center of the crossing looks rather simple -- perhaps more like the vintage piece of decades ago?  Also appears to have a couple of black wires connected to the center rail. 

Again, I'm basing these observations only from pictures online or in the most recent MTH catalogs.  Haven't seen either of these "in person", although the 10-4006 pictures I've seen online are the actual product in the box, whereas the 11-99006 pics are strictly from MTH's catalog (which has been known to not have the most accurate product graphics).  Guess it's time to visit a LHS to see what's really available out there.

If anyone can comment on these two 90-degree crossings... pros and cons, etc... I'd very much appreciate it.  Are they REALLY different products, or is the catalog picture just misleading?

I'm planning on a figure-8 of sorts, so my needs are very simple.  Trains going over the crossing will be in the same "loop" or power district, so I don't need anything too exotic in design.  Simplicity is key here.    

Thanks!!!

David

So it sounds like you have what you need for the center of your layout. Just be aware of the switching mechanism in the center, and if it gives you problems you can always open it up and remove or bypass the contacts.  It may work for you as is for a long time!

When Home Depot last year stopped selling the green carpet most SGMA members used to cover their modules, I did some research to find a replacement.  I found one, a virtually identical carpet sold by Lowes, specifically "Lighthouse I/O carpet" in the "Everglade" green color. 

SGMA has found that this "style" of I/O carpet works well.  This particular one, Lighthouse Everglade Indoor/Outdoor Carpet,  is a darker green color than the one Rob mentioned.   So, if you decide to use this style of green I/O carpet, go to Lowes and take your pick of two green colors.   

Bob Nelson

Jim,

What version of the Hellgate bridge are you basing your comments on, the narrow original version (including identical reproductions) or the significantly "wider" Hellgate Bridge that Lionel made that was redesigned to handle two O gauge mainlines?  If the former, I think you would find the wider version easy to run your Super 381 over.

Bob 

I have only recently been made aware of this; now I'm working at overcoming my traditional bias to try replacing one of the #300 Hellgates on my layout with the #305.  I understand it is traditional tinplate construction, and is both wider and a little taller clearance as well, ideally suited for modern era standard gauge...

Frank, I'm sure Jim will confirm... But from the looks of the illustration and detail of accessories on the plan, my bet is RR-Track.

David

It is a very very old version of RR-Track. It is so old the program is loaded via floppy disc. I do not know if there accessories have been added too or there track files to upgrade to USA track offerings.

Bob i have a MTH copy of a original Hellgate bridge. In answer to Brute clearance on the 440 signal bridge. It clears by quite a bit. The Pantographs do not raise or lower so the clearance is about 2".

Well here we are as promised...  The hillside and the table are both painted with a green texture paint.  If you put it on thick enough you can get a nice grass effect and you can cover areas that would be difficult with carpet.  The hill is a foam insulation board structure, covered by paper mache.  I soaked each piece of the paper in wallpaper paste and then let it dry in the sun.  It's really not rocket science, but I am extremely happy with the results.  The tunnel portals are quarter inch foam as well, painted a nice contrasting color  I use cork roadbed - 3 strips of the stuff that is made for HO.

Dave, that is a great look for a tinplate layout!  Just enough to suggest scenery but not too much.  I really like what you've done, thanks for posting the photos.  Nice job.  And an American Flyer standard gauge switch?  Now that's authentic tinplate...

Dave,  I REALLY LIKE the paint you used!  I think I would like to go that route.  Can you please provide specifics? (color, brand).

Thanks Hojack.  I really love the AF switches if you can find them in good condition.  They perform much better than the MTH stuff generally.  I have 4 of them that use on the layout, 3 manuals and one electric.  I own about 12 of them...for parts.

Frank, I'm glad you liked the look.  I think the ability to paint the tabletop and the mountain side the same color is a great benefit.  I try not to get too far away from the toy aspect of the hobby, but it is a balancing act trying not to look too "real".

As for the paint, I got it from Lowe's.  It is their standard store brand house paint with the grit texture (Valspar I think).  You can get it in almost any shade you want.  I started with some left over from my dining room as a matter of fact.  I would stick with the flat finish personally.  Good luck.  I'd love to see some photos of the work as you progress.

That looks really nice! Did you add your own grit to the paint?

I purchased the paint with the grit already in it.  I don't see any reason you couldn't add your own grit however.  You might even want to experiment with different size grit.  A course sand would probably work pretty good