Steam locomotive scale couplers for double heading

I used a small piece of wire to couple two Weaver locomotives.

Boy the photo really shows just how nasty looking the lobster claws are.

You might get more answers if you post this question on O SCALE 3-Rail Trains (3RS) Forum

Seems like this is asked about once/wk.

Simple answer, install a Kadee coupler to the front of the engine.

Honestly guys, how can you live with wrapping a piece of wire, rubber band, plastic bag tie, or tie wrap around the couplers to keep them together ?

I've been running my O-scale 3-rail trains for a decade now with Kadees on everything and have yet to have a problem, plus they perform so fine when running the rails or switching.

If you're afraid that converting to Kadees will lower the resale value, your best move would be to box them up and store them in a safe place.  Buy some trains you don't mind converting/devaluing and enjoy the fun.

Here's my MTH RailKing Imperial 0-6-0 with front (and rear) mounted Kadees:

And my RailKing NW2:

Fully functional and a blast to use.  I can creep up to ANY piece of rolling stock I have and make the couplers couple without moving the car.  You can't get any better performance than that.

The hardest part is taking the first step (you can quote me on this)

Bob I could not have said it better.  Our beloved and late forum member Lisa Marie started me down that path many yrs ago.

Well, now is you opportunity to get rid of the lobster claws all together, at the very least on all your locomotives. Since the Kadee couplers will couple with most lobster claws on rolling stock, or you can make a transition car (Kadee on one end and claw on the other), then all your pieces of motive power will look and operate the same.

Plus, if you had asked this question on the 3RS Forum, would would get the same suggestions i.e., bag the lobster claws.

Well, I must be the oddball here.

While I do agree the kaydee is a nice coupler, I will not remove the remote controlled couplers from any of my engines.

I really like them. So much so I want MTH to make a kit to add one to any car.

I do think a car with one type on each end is reasonable but I'd need several of them.

Is there any way to operate a kaydee like the proto-coupler?

If I recall correctly, you move the kaydee to the side to uncouple. I wonder if the electro-coupler could be made to do that for you...

I believe MTH is working on a coupler that looks like a Kadee but works like a Proto-coupler.  I haven't heard any news on those for a while but that will eventually be the way to go.

@Russell:

Uncoupling magnets are available for the Kadees but I'm not sure how the operate in O scale.  In HO, you have a permanent magnet between the rails and you trigger the uncouple action over the magnet.

Russell,

Kadee does make electric uncouplers, item 810, but I don't know if it's for 3-rail use, I kinda doubt it.

They also make an in between uncoupler, item 809, that uses magnets, but it's restrictive on how it's used.  They're placed in one spot permanently (more or less).

I think what you're looking for is a Kadee coupler that opens by pressing a button, I don't think they've one yet.

I open mine manually using a plastic tuning wand that was made for TV repair.  Looks like a small plastic screwdriver on one end and a metal flat blade on the other.  A simple twist and the couplers uncouple.  But you have to be within reach to do it.

What we need is a magnetic wand (with an extension arm and a light) that could be passed over the couplers to make them uncouple automatically.

I used to have an uncoupler when I was in HO that looked like a "h" with a long vertical handle.  It had a magnet on the inside of each small leg of the "h".  I forget who made it but I might try making one to use for O scale.  Seems like in HO the room between 2 cars was so narrow that I was always derailing them, hitting the cars with the tool.  With O scale there's a bit more room so it might work.

Using Kadees gives you a more realistic gap between cars, but it also means you'll probably need broader curves than what a lot of O-gauge modelers use.  My minimum curves are 0-54, anything else and you will probably get derailments.

So, there are some limitations to using Kadees, but if you can overcome the obstacles (mostly tight curves and ability to reach) they can increase the overall enjoyment of model railroading even more.

IT WAS A RIX UNCOUPLING TOOL!!!

Ditch the lobster claws and go Kadee. They will mate up with claws just fine, they operate more reliably than claws and they look great. I made the switch 4 years ago and haven't looked back. Installation on most equipment is fairly simple, drill 2 holes and shim to the proper height.

 My guess is you want to use the stock screw and simply mount a scale coupler bypassing the use of a coupler box and self centering spring. The Kadee will not work in this arrangement. The Atlas coupler with a little trimming has enough metal area you can drill a hole through and it will work. I run scale couplers and doublehead L2 Mohawks using a Kadee on the rear and an Atlas on the front. Unfortunately the old Atlas coupler won't mate with Lionel coil coupler. They are offering a new scale coupler that is more Kadee looking that may work. When using this arrangement the front coupler may not end up at the correct height for scale coupling. But the 3 rail coilcoupler should be pretty forgiving.

 Your other option would be to check out the Bowser website. They offer Selley dummy couplers in both 3 rail and scale. The shanks are solid and can be cut, drilled and filed to fit. They offer pictures but I have no idea as to size or how they mate up with the 3 rail coilcoupler.

Thanks for your reply Dave. It has been several years, I remember your truck mounted KD couplers. Those were impressive, allowing for more movement than frame mounted couplers.

Recently in Boston visiting my fifth grandchild. Spent a couple days on Martha Vineyard. Lots of stuff there to model.  

Mike 

Anyone try body mounted kadees on O48 curves and turnouts?.  Those are the tightest curves I have on my layout.

How easy to the kadees couple up with my coil lobster claws on my locomotives.  I am not worried about re-sale cost as I pretty much plan to keep and run what I own.  I will slowly change the locomotives out too coil kadees but it might be a few months for me to hit all my locomotives.  Do the kadees couple up easily where I could be doing some switching on the other end of my layout without having to use the 0-5-0 hand switcher to get them to couple?

Best thing to do:

Pick a least favorite engine and do some experimentation.

The old Atlas couplers have a longer shank than any Kadees I've seen, I think about 1/4" longer and they're metal.  Weaver also has/had some metal couplers.

If the chosen coupler can be made to fit in the existing coupler hole on the pilot that would be a good start to see if it'll go round 048 curves.  It certainly shouldn't be any different than the existing coupler if it's like the one in the photo with them wired together.

Good luck!

Anyone try body mounted kadees on O48 curves and turnouts?.  Those are the tightest curves I have on my layout.

 

All of this is related to 048 curves - It all depends on the length of equipment.  Diesels like Geeps and average sized freight cars will probably work with that diameter. Passenger cars and longer locomotives like an E7 will not.  Also, any S curves would be questionable.  Steam engines with shorter tenders, should work on the tender side, but not the front.

Basically it is dependent on the overhang.  Shorter equipment has less overhang so the coupler geometry with body mounted couplers is more suitable for tighter curves. 

Kadees easily fit the front coupler pockets of some of my MTH engines.  The 3rd Rail engines I have require more work and I haven't wanted to take that on yet.  The one type of Lionel steam engine I have, should also easily be converted because it allows for a Lionel sized coupler to be used.

Do the kadees couple up easily where I could be doing some switching on the other end of my layout without having to use the 0-5-0 hand switcher to get them to couple?

The couple up very easily, but you need the 0-5-0 to uncouple.  I have yet to read about any O scaler using the magnets offered for uncoupling, but I have seen HO layouts where they work very well if placed at the strategic points necessary. 

If the kadee is coupled to a coil lobster claw, and I hit the coupler button on my remote, will the car with the kadees properly uncouple from the locomotive with the coil lobster claw?

The claw should let go.  I can go run a test later today and try it but I am pretty sure this works.

Thanks Eric

In reverse will it couple up easily without using my 0-5-0

I just tested coupling/uncoupling with my PS2 GP38 and 2 different Weaver Troop cars with 2-rail trucks and Kadees.  I'm certainly no expert but here were the results...

I had no trouble getting the rear ProtoCoupler to release on any of the Kadees I tested.  In fact, running around the test loop I had trouble keeping the car coupled to the engine.  I was running at 20 SMPH or less.  I tested this with both ends of one car and one end of the other car.  Same results.  In all 3 cases I coupled by hand and it seemed secure.

I was not able to successfully couple without using my 0-5-0.  I didn't try faster than 20 SMPH though.

I hope this helps.  If you want me to try something else, I can.  If you need to play with the troop cars yourself, maybe we can work something out.

By the way...  I also have a car that has the claw on one end and the Kadee on the other.  That was the method recommended to me on running with Kadees.

This is what I was trying to avoid.  I do not want to have to do all my switching with a box car always coupled to each end of my locomotive!   The only real issue is the siding at the other end of my layout, that is out of reach.  

I also experimented with this.  Right now, my Lionel docksider is the only item I have that is Kadee equipped.  I coupled it up to my Legacy Lionmaster SD80 and had a difficult time uncoupling.  I also tried it with my TMCC dummy BB1 rat and it seemed to work OK.  Either way, at some point you will need to use your hand to couple or uncouple.

What happened to the MTH electro scale couplers? They were working on them. Don

This is a hobby where a little ingenuity always comes in handy.