Steam Railroading in Manhattan

Good looking layout!

Good history lesson too...

Skip,

Looks great! Who makes that coaling tower?

E-UNIT-79 posted:

Good history lesson too...

With all the laws in the city now days they probably would have cleared the station when It was pulling in and pulling out So that no people were stiffeld by the fumes. I wish I would have known about it, I would have gone to Belmont park to see it. 

Lehigh Valley Railroad posted:

Skip,

 

Looks great! Who makes that coaling tower?

 

 

Chris,

That is two Bachmann coaling towers kit bashed together with some extra detail parts.

E-UNIT-79 posted:

With all the laws in the city now days they probably would have cleared the station when It was pulling in and pulling out So that no people were stiffeld by the fumes. I wish I would have known about it, I would have gone to Belmont park to see it. 

Are you at least 45 years old? If not, you'd have been too young to have seen it.

But the locomotive didn't always stay with the train at every display site where the Freedom Train came in. They had boiler maintenance to do at various places along the route, and that would usually mean the locomotive was towed to another off-site location (which ticked off those who came just to see it).

In other places, the train was pulled in by (shudder) diesels, and the steam loco left somewhere it would best fit while the train was on display. Each display location was different.

Sadly, many of the display locations don't exist anymore. I drive by the Tacoma one every now and then, over at North Fort Lewis. The tracks the train was displayed on are still there, but have long since been cut from the railhead and the switch from the main is long gone. A train hasn't been over those rails in many, many years. the site at Tallahassee, Florida, where I saw it right before my 7th birthday, is totally gone as it is a road now and you'd never tell there were ever tracks there back in the day...

"That is two Bachmann coaling towers kit bashed together with some extra detail parts."

And very expertly done too!  I can't even find the seam! 

p51 posted:

E-UNIT-79 posted:

With all the laws in the city now days they probably would have cleared the station when It was pulling in and pulling out So that no people were stiffeld by the fumes. I wish I would have known about it, I would have gone to Belmont park to see it. 

Are you at least 45 years old? If not, you'd have been too young to have seen it.

But the locomotive didn't always stay with the train at every display site where the Freedom Train came in. They had boiler maintenance to do at various places along the route, and that would usually mean the locomotive was towed to another off-site location (which ticked off those who came just to see it).

In other places, the train was pulled in by (shudder) diesels, and the steam loco left somewhere it would best fit while the train was on display. Each display location was different.

Sadly, many of the display locations don't exist anymore. I drive by the Tacoma one every now and then, over at North Fort Lewis. The tracks the train was displayed on are still there, but have long since been cut from the railhead and the switch from the main is long gone. A train hasn't been over those rails in many, many years. the site at Tallahassee, Florida, where I saw it right before my 7th birthday, is totally gone as it is a road now and you'd never tell there were ever tracks there back in the day...

yeah I would have been old enough to see it I would have got my dad to take me. He used to work for the New York Central Railroad so he would have enjoyed it too. He got me started in trains when I was a kid telling me stories about how he used to change "tires" on Hudson's and I heard a 100 times the story of how a tender pin made his thumb flat. What I wouldn't give to hear that story again...but sadly everything is changing I do actually remember the rails all over the streets here in Brooklyn but never saw a trolley running on them. And like you said you would never know it was there. 

Great job on the coaling tower...would never have guessed Plasticville.  I will have to take another look at that one, as I want a one chute  wooden tower for a short line, and have been thinking about cutting down one of the double chute kits.  Would  be a lot quicker and easier to bash  one of those, and I would want its source unrecognizable. (which goal you achieved)

Hi Skip 

 Great pictures absolutely stunning layout !!!!! 

Alex 

That last photo in the group is what I call awesome. Beautiful work.  BigRail

Hey Skip, very informative. I thought all steam locomotives were banned from Manhattan around 1920 when the smoke abatement law was enacted. Hope to see you soon.

A nice accounting of the legalities and ordinance action that impacted steam railroading in New York City. In spite of that legislation, there were significant steam operations within New york cities other boroughs for a number of years after the laws were enacted.

The BEDT or Brooklyn eastern District steam engines were live steam engines not fireless cookers . They carried fuel and water . They were oil fired. The BEDT steam engines would travel to Pidgeon street yard in Long Island City and Wallabout terminal and the Navy Yard by car float along with cars being carried to and from those location. Nos 15 and 16 were the last to operate into October 1963. No 15 was sold to other owners and were used by these owners same until it was bought by strasburg,, converted to coal firing and works today as Thomas the Tank . It will be 100 years old next year. 

When the Hi line was opened, the New York Central continued street operations on the West side to just south of canal street to about 1935 . There was a freight terminal i believe they called it Hudson Terminal which closed that year. Its site is used-today  for the exit roadways from the Holland Tunnel. 

The New Haven Freight  operations on the Hellgate Bridge and the Bay Ridge Branch were handled by steam up until 1927 when the Bay Ridge branch was electrified along with tracks 3 and 4 on the Bridge. with the New haven catenary system . The Long Island Railroad switched the car floats in Bay Ridge with steam power a bit longer until the BB-3s arrived.In the 1930s, the LIRR had a steam powered boat train with a G5s that picked up a DD-1 hauled train from Pennsylvania station in Sunnyside and ran over the Montauk cutoff to the Bay Ridge line down to Brooklyn army terminal. The train carried passengers for the hamburg  america line steamships Bremen and Europa which docked at Brooklyn Army Terminal.  During world war 2 and in the immediate postwar period, LIRR used leased PRR L1 class mikados on the bay Ridge branch for troop trains . LIRR continued to operate steam in Queens county up until October 1955 when the RS-3s arrived.  

Great-looking layout and city scene, Skip! 

HI Skip 

in picture 4  NYC engine 1295  , By chance was that engine created by our old friend Lee ?   

I hope to this years Christmas layout soon ( after Thanksgiving ) 

Since I am also a NYC Railfan Myself , I enjoy your NYC info !  

To others  that posted in this Topic , I also say thanks .  

@ LIRR STEAMER   I last saw BEDT Porter 0-6-0 #14 sitting in the yard on the Delaware & Ulster at Arkville, NY around 2005. 

Paul I believe the locomotive Arkville is number 14. Number 16 is at the railroad Museum of Long Island in Riverhead. It is not operational. 

LIRR Steamer posted:

Paul I believe the locomotive Arkville is number 14. Number 16 is at the railroad Museum of Long Island in Riverhead. It is not operational. 

Thank you. I was editing my reply and saw your response. I don't know if #14 is operational at Arkville.

LIRR Steamer posted:

The BEDT or Brooklyn eastern District steam engines were live steam engines not fireless cookers . They carried fuel and water . They were oil fired. The BEDT steam engines would travel to Pidgeon street yard in Long Island City and Wallabout terminal and the Navy Yard by car float along with cars being carried to and from those location. Nos 15 and 16 were the last to operate into October 1963. No 15 was sold to other owners and were used by these owners same until it was bought by strasburg,, converted to coal firing and works today as Thomas the Tank . It will be 100 years old next year. 

Thanks for the info on the BEDT. I don't know where I heard that they were fireless. But I'm sure you are correct. I have actually taken my kids to Strasburg and seen the BEDT locomotive that was converted to Thomas the Tank Engine, so I should have known that!

Paul I think there was work done to cosmetically restore 14 at Arkville. They may be actively seeking funding to restore her operationally as well.

Skip When I was a youngster, I lived very near the BEDT. As kids we used do play down by the rail yards and quite frequently saw these locomotives chugging along. Interestingly, The BEDT locomotives all were acquired after they had been built and used by previous owners. Shops were at North 6th street.

Your layout photos a re great . I really enjoyed then. Thanks for posting.them.

LIRR Steamer posted:

Paul I think there was work done to cosmetically restore 14 at Arkville. They may be actively seeking funding to restore her operationally as well.

Skip When I was a youngster, I lived very near the BEDT. As kids we used do play down by the rail yards and quite frequently saw these locomotives chugging along. Interestingly, The BEDT locomotives all were acquired after they had been built and used by previous owners. Shops were at North 6th street.

Your layout photos a re great . I really enjoyed then. Thanks for posting.them.

You were pretty lucky to have witnessed the steam operation. I didn't know it actually lasted up until 1963 in Brooklyn. If my Dad had known about it we would surely have taken a ride to see it. I would have been about 9 yrs old in 63. I was born a couple of years after the steam era ended on the "Old Put."  I would have loved to have witnessed that. Those tracks ran real close to our house.

Thanks for your comment on the layout photos!

Skip

LIRR Steamer posted:

 

When the Hi line was opened, the New York Central continued street operations on the West side to just south of canal street to about 1935 . There was a freight terminal i believe they called it Hudson Terminal which closed that year. Its site is used-today  for the exit roadways from the Holland Tunnel. 

 

I believe the freight terminal was called St. John's Park Terminal. After 1931, in order to run in non-electrified areas they used "Tri-power" locomotives which, from what I understand, could not only run off external power (third rail or overhead), but could run by diesel electric power, and run off of stored electric (like a rechargeable battery).

Tri-Power 1547

Here is a rendering of the original St. John's Park Terminal 

Here is a photo of the "new" St. Johns Park Terminal in 1934 with the High Line.

I did want to include as much New York City railroading as possible on the layout. Here is a little 10th Avenue street action. I will be adding cobblestones later.

Gorgeous pictures, Skip......I wish I had paid more attention to to RR history when I lived there.....from 53-75.....I'm glad I made to to Madison Harware, once.....

Thank you, Skip, for keeping the memory of the Central in NYC alive in the 21st Century.....

Peter

NYC Fan posted:

LIRR Steamer posted:

 

When the Hi line was opened, the New York Central continued street operations on the West side to just south of canal street to about 1935 . There was a freight terminal i believe they called it Hudson Terminal which closed that year. Its site is used-today  for the exit roadways from the Holland Tunnel. 

 

I believe the freight terminal was called St. John's Park Terminal. After 1931, in order to run in non-electrified areas they used "Tri-power" locomotives which, from what I understand, could not only run off a external power (third rail or overhead), but could run by diesel electric power, and run off of stored electric (like a rechargeable battery).

Tri-Power 1547

Here is a rendering of the original St. John's Park Terminal 

Here is a photo of the "new" St. Johns Park Terminal in 1934 with the High Line.

I did want to include as much New York City railroading as possible on the layout. Here is a little 10th Avenue street action. I will be adding cobblestones later.

Skip.....will you have "West Side Cowboys"?  

Peter

NYC Fan posted:

 

Hey there - this looks absolutely amazing!  Thanks for sharing.  

By the way, we plan on doing a NYC cityscape - where did you find the city buildings?!  The New Yorker and the beige building in the center or your bottom photo above for starters?  And the building in the post immediately anime - where your locomotive is on a curve on the 10th ave. line?  And where will can you buy cobblestone streets?  

Thanks, Peter 

palallin posted:

Helpful reference: there is a great article with an extensive bibliography on the Highline in Issue 22 of O Scale Trains.

Thanks for the tip......

Here is the reference......and go to page 46......

http://www.oscalemag.com/docs/ost_22.pdf

Peter

Peter,

 I think, I'm going to subscribe to it.

Thanks, Johnn

PJB posted:

NYC Fan posted:

 

Hey there - this looks absolutely amazing!  Thanks for sharing.  

By the way, we plan on doing a NYC cityscape - where did you find the city buildings?!  The New Yorker and the beige building in the center or your bottom photo above for starters?  And the building in the post immediately anime - where your locomotive is on a curve on the 10th ave. line?  And where will can you buy cobblestone streets?  

Thanks, Peter 

Peter,

Most of the buildings are custom made. I was involved in the design and selective compression process. Very expensive, but I stretched them out over many years.  I'm actually looking at Department 56 cobblestone street which come in rolls. Other options are plaster cast sections which seem to be a lot more difficult to work with. 

Putnam Division posted:

Skip.....will you have "West Side Cowboys"?  

Peter

Of course!

Here are a few BEDT photos back when steam worked the railroad. At its height, BEDT had more than 11 miles of track. All on the brooklyn and Queens waterfront. Connections and interchange with other railroads were by carefloat. Theres one here where the loco went with the train to the Navy yard.and a LIRR fan trip with a G5s on the Montaul cutoff. Enjoy 16 crossing Kent avenueat North fifth street.

on the loop track at North sixth street. BEDT Invincible behind.

At the Navy yard with the days work.

switching Austin Nichols. She is out on the pierThere were three tracks that went through the building for carloads . Austin Nichols was a purveyor of foodstuffs for Steamships. They eventually went to focus entirely on Liquor. Wild Turkey was a brand of theirs.

BEDT Tug landing a carfloat. Nice empire state in the background

working the carfloats at North sixth street

A LIRR Fan trip in 1955 near the end of steam. Probably G5s 35 or 39 with railfans in tow. The Pullman standard cars were new then. They are in Long Island City on their watmdy from Sunnyside to the Montauk Branch , past Mount Olivet to FGresh Pond. . This trip may have gone down to Bay Ridge. 

NYC Fan posted:

PJB posted:

NYC Fan posted:

 

Hey there - this looks absolutely amazing!  Thanks for sharing.  

By the way, we plan on doing a NYC cityscape - where did you find the city buildings?!  The New Yorker and the beige building in the center or your bottom photo above for starters?  And the building in the post immediately anime - where your locomotive is on a curve on the 10th ave. line?  And where will can you buy cobblestone streets?  

Thanks, Peter 

Peter,

Most of the buildings are custom made. I was involved in the design and selective compression process. Very expensive, but I stretched them out over many years.  I'm actually looking at Department 56 cobblestone street which come in rolls. Other options are plaster cast sections which seem to be a lot more difficult to work with. 

Very, very cool.  Wondering if now that the prototype New Yorker has been made, if a duplicate will be affordable?  Thanks for the tip on cobblestone streeting.  I'm looking forward to more pics of your amazing layout. 

"Here is a photo of the "new" St. Johns Park Terminal in 1934 with the High Line."

It's hard to see it in this photo, but I have seen a clearer version and there are 3 rail tracks in the road that parallels the high line.

pennytrains posted:

"Here is a photo of the "new" St. Johns Park Terminal in 1934 with the High Line."

It's hard to see it in this photo, but I have seen a clearer version and there are 3 rail tracks in the road that parallels the high line.

Here you go.

Skip

LIRR Steamer posted:

Here are a few BEDT photos back when steam worked the railroad. At its height, BEDT had more than 11 miles of track. All on the brooklyn and Queens waterfront. Connections and interchange with other railroads were by carefloat. Theres one here where the loco went with the train to the Navy yard.and a LIRR fan trip with a G5s on the Montaul cutoff. Enjoy 16 crossing Kent avenueat North fifth street.

on the loop track at North sixth street. BEDT Invincible behind.

At the Navy yard with the days work.

switching Austin Nichols. She is out on the pierThere were three tracks that went through the building for carloads . Austin Nichols was a purveyor of foodstuffs for Steamships. They eventually went to focus entirely on Liquor. Wild Turkey was a brand of theirs.

BEDT Tug landing a carfloat. Nice empire state in the background

working the carfloats at North sixth street

A LIRR Fan trip in 1955 near the end of steam. Probably G5s 35 or 39 with railfans in tow. The Pullman standard cars were new then. They are in Long Island City on their watmdy from Sunnyside to the Montauk Branch , past Mount Olivet to FGresh Pond. . This trip may have gone down to Bay Ridge. 

Wow, Absolutely jealous! Wish I had gotten out there to see that.

Skip

Yes ,That is the High line as we known Today.

Good luck, John

Great info.  My daughter lives on 83rd st on the upper west side and I never knew trains ran there.  We go to Riverside Park with our grandson and there are tracks under the park with ventilation grids along the walkway in the park.  My grandson likes to try to watch the trains through the grids as they go rumbling by at quite impressive speeds.  Railroad history in the city is extremely interesting.  Thanks for the info.  

Yes Dave, that was all part of the West Side Improvement Project 1934. They covered the tracks which eliminated all of the grade crossings and increased the usable park space.