STEAMday Sunday (12/15/2024 edition)

This week on the layout the NYO&W Mogul runs a combined “Christmas and mixed freight-passenger train” and the N&W J pulls the Pocohantas……

Have a great and safe week, everyone!

Peter

Thanks for getting the steam up this morning Arnold. The Empire State Express Hudson is certainly a handsome addition to your roundhouse! I’m going with another Prewar engine this morning. A Lionel 260E 2-4-2 Black with a Green frame and an oil tender, made in ‘30-‘35. Here it is with Blue 710-710-712 passenger cars.

My steam locomotive for this Sunday 12-15-2024 is New York Central 4-6-0 ten-wheeler #1244, a Lionel Legacy model (2431660) that arrived recently. Lionel has been making versions of this NYC prototype since at least 2002 and they did a great job on this one. I liked the looks of the chromed cylinder heads and valve covers when this model appeared in the Lionel catalog, so I pre-ordered it. It’s my 5th Lionel ten-wheeler. It also seems to me that the black paint and graphite smokebox color differ from previous versions. The black paint has no gloss at all and the smokebox looks realistic.

#1244 was built by Alco in November 1907 and began service on the New York Central & Hudson River Railroad as Class F-2e #2118. It was reclassified to NYC Class F-12e and renumbered #831 when superheated in February 1916. Weight was 208,000 pounds with 31,900 pounds tractive effort at steam pressure 200 pounds-per-square-inch and 69-inch driving wheels. It was renumbered to #1244 in 1948 and retired in February 1952.

Ten-wheelers ran on the New York Central’s Putnam Division until the end of steam. I didn’t have a green New York Central passenger car to run behind this engine so I purchased the unlettered parlor car (Atlas O Premier 3007040) shown in these photos and the video taken on my 10’-by-5’ layout.

MELGAR

Good morning, steam fans, on another frigid NE morning!  Makes you want to huddle around the firebox!

Arnold, beautiful new engine!   I always thought the Empire Estate Hudsons were better looking than the Dreyfus Hudsons on the 20th Century Limited, but I think my opinion is in the minority.  That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like to own an example of each!

In commemoration of the announcement of the plan to restore the 1/1 scale NYC L3a Mohawk no. 3001 to operating condition, I ran my 1/48 scale Lionel NYC Mohawk no. 3000, the first of the L3a class.

John

Mel, you may have as many 10 wheelers as the Put had in the 1930s and 1940s.

I forgot to add I think NYC Mohawks look better without the “elephant ears”.  That opinion may be in the minority, too!

John

Thanks for kicking things off with a touch of class this week Arnold. That Hudson looks sharp.

Getting the Christmas trains ready to roll in circles under the tree for another season today. Last year I added this steamer to the fleet. It's a Lionel Lionchief/ BT 2-4-2 loco from a set break up. I needed something to pull the new Lionel Fezziwig Railway cars that I had just bought as well. My wife and I met in a bar called Fezziwigs so I had to have them.

Clearly not a scale model. The shell is a rework of a common MPC steamer that doesn't represent any particular prototype. Sounds are typical Lionel and Santa is at the controls to keep the Christmas Express on schedule. It has Bluetooth so the apps will run it.

Bob

@MELGAR posted:

My steam locomotive for this Sunday 12-15-2024 is New York Central 4-6-0 ten-wheeler #1244, a Lionel Legacy model (2431660) that arrived recently. Lionel has been making versions of this NYC prototype since at least 2002 and they did a great job on this one. I liked the looks of the chromed cylinder heads and valve covers when this model appeared in the Lionel catalog, so I pre-ordered it. It’s my 5th Lionel ten-wheeler. It also seems to me that the black paint and graphite smokebox color differ from previous versions. The black paint has no gloss at all and the smokebox looks realistic.

#1244 was built by Alco in November 1907 and began service on the New York Central & Hudson River Railroad as Class F-2e #2118. It was reclassified to NYC Class F-12e and renumbered #831 when superheated in February 1916. Weight was 208,000 pounds with 31,900 pounds tractive effort at steam pressure 200 pounds-per-square-inch and 69-inch driving wheels. It was renumbered to #1244 in 1948 and retired in February 1952.

Ten-wheelers ran on the New York Central’s Putnam Division until the end of steam. I didn’t have a green New York Central passenger car to run behind this engine so I purchased the unlettered parlor car (Atlas O Premier 3007040) shown in these photos and the video taken on my 10’-by-5’ layout.

MELGAR

Looking good Mel, I do like the look of a 4-6-0. I did notice a lack of chuff sounds in the video, did you have the volume down? It almost sounds like a diesel running but there’s only one track. Maybe it’s just me??

Gene

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Mel, you may have as many 10 wheelers as the Put had in the 1930s and 1940s.

Arnold,

As you know, my two favorite Lionel locomotive models are the ten-wheelers and the Boston & Albany 4-6-6T tank engines. The ten-wheelers have a classic look - that of a choo-choo. The absence of a trailing truck, slatted "cowcatcher" pilot, high driving wheels on unequally-spaced axles, cab roof overhang, and small tender contribute to that.

The larger engines - Hudsons, Mohawks, and Niagaras - symbolize power. But the ten-wheelers have a classic style that the more modern ones do not - in my opinion.

MELGAR

@MELGAR posted:

Arnold,

As you know, my two favorite Lionel locomotive models are the ten-wheelers and the Boston & Albany 4-6-6T tank engines. The ten-wheelers have a classic look - that of a choo-choo. The absence of a trailing truck, slatted "cowcatcher" pilot, high driving wheels on unequally-spaced axles, cab roof overhang, and small tender contribute to that.

The larger engines - Hudsons, Mohawks, and Niagaras - symbolize of power. But the ten-wheelers have a classic style that the more modern ones do not - in my opinion.

MELGAR

I agree 1000% Mel. These do highlight all of the classic features of steam engines. The off-set rear driver sets this apart from the crowd too.

Bob

@Genemed posted:

Looking good Mel, I do like the look of a 4-6-0. I did notice a lack of chuff sounds in the video, did you have the volume down? It almost sounds like a diesel running but there’s only one track. Maybe it’s just me??

Gene

Gene,

Lionel eliminated the volume adjustment knob on their locomotives. There is no longer any way of adjusting the sound volume in conventional operation and, in my opinion, the volume is set too low. As far as I'm concerned it's a deficiency in their recent steam locomotive models. My older ten-wheelers have better sounds than the new ones. I have expressed my thoughts about this to Lionel.

MELGAR

Plenty of holiday season buzz at the North Main Street Station this weekend...

happy Steam day Sunday one and all.

Arnold, that Empire State Express is an example of majestic beauty in motion!

nice trade!

So there are two other steamers? OK, we would like to see them too!

@MELGAR posted:

Gene,

Lionel eliminated the volume adjustment knob on their locomotives. There is no longer any way of adjusting the sound volume in conventional operation and, in my opinion, the volume is set too low. As far as I'm concerned it's a deficiency in their recent steam locomotive models. My older ten-wheelers have better sounds than the new ones. I have expressed my thoughts about this to Lionel.

MELGAR

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn’t realize you ran the engine conventionally.

Gene

Since Arnold started with a RK Hudson, I might as well show off mine. This is the RK MTHRRC Hudson with PS2, I search for this Loco for a long time and finally found one! The bad news it ended up having a bad motor and the replacement from MTH had a different worm gear and would not work! I was able to pull the gear and flywheel off the old motor, but all attempts to pull the gear off the new motor only resulted in a ruined motor. So, for $12 I ordered 2 motors from China, installed the flywheel, sensor, and worm gear from the old motor and now she runs like a champ again! And since it's that time a year, my MTHRRC 4-6-0 is also running pulling some Christmas cars!

How about some good ol' Wabash?  It was a Christmas gift from my parents way back around the late 80's.

- walt

@Genemed posted:

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn’t realize you ran the engine conventionally.

Gene

Gene,

My 12'-by-8' layout was built prior to the advent of command control and operates well without it. My 10'-by-5' layout has just an oval of track for which I considered command control to be unnecessary. My interests in model railroading are locomotives and engineering, scenery and structures, and railroad history. I prefer to have avoided the expense and electronic issues that many people have with command control. The features it offers are not of importance to me. I want to be able to walk downstairs, turn on the transformers, and run the trains without having to troubleshoot any electronic issues, and I prefer the emphasis to be on the trains and railroading rather than electronics.

I hope I don't sound like I'm criticizing command control. I just prefer to keep things simple and avoid unnecessary complexity.

MELGAR

@MELGAR posted:

Gene,

Lionel eliminated the volume adjustment knob on their locomotives. There is no longer any way of adjusting the sound volume in conventional operation and, in my opinion, the volume is set too low. As far as I'm concerned it's a deficiency in their recent steam locomotive models. My older ten-wheelers have better sounds than the new ones. I have expressed my thoughts about this to Lionel.

MELGAR

Mel, if the locomotive is a Legacy or MTH PS 2 or 3, the volume may be raised using the handheld remote for the Legacy or DCS. I know you don’t have those remotes, but it’s possible that it could be arranged for someone else  that has those operating systems and remotes to increase the volume of your locomotive.

Arnold

Here is the Lionel # 241 Scout type 2-4-2 engine available in 1958 and then again in 1965 (uncatalogued both times).  In 1965 it re-emerged as part of an uncatalogued J.C. Penny set.   Locomotive has reverse activated with a fiber lever through the top of the boiler, tender has whistle and boiler has headlight.  Locomotive body is die cast with white stripe.

Here she is waiting at the front of the depot for clearance to enter the main.

Best Wishes everyone and Happy Holidays

Don

It is late 1949 and the photographer got a movie clip of a B28 backing a boxcar into the public delivery track.

Atlas engines and boxcar.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Mel, if the locomotive is a Legacy or MTH PS 2 or 3, the volume may be raised using the handheld remote for the Legacy or DCS. I know you don’t have those remotes, but it’s possible that it could be arranged for someone else  that has those operating systems and remotes to increase the volume of your locomotive.

Arnold

Thanks for the suggestion Arnold.

I'd rather just leave the Lionel locomotives as they are. The chuffing sounds are not loud enough for me but they sound better in person than on the video. MTH PS 1, 2 and 3 locomotives all have a volume control knob, so there is no issue with them. As you know, I also don't run smoke. To each his own...

MELGAR

Here’s another steamer of mine in a video taken of a section of my layout rarely, if ever, seen on the Forum:

That steamer is a recent Lionel Legacy model that cost about $750. Unfortunately, IMO, even though it is supposed to run well through O31 curves, the tether plug from the tender often gets slightly unseated in the receptacle on the back of the locomotive causing it to stall when running through 031 curves so I rarely run it.

Arnold

What I most love about the 0-6-0 steamer in the video immediately above is the swinging bell. You will see it when you play that video.

I started a thread about this locomotive about 1 year ago regarding the problem with the tether plug and receptacle in the back of the locomotive and stalling on 031 curves. In that thread, I called it my Yard Goat, which is the perfect name for it. I will keep it in the section of my layout with 3 sidings to shuttle train cars and serve as a steam switcher. That way, it won’t derail in the sections of my layout that are difficult to access.

Below are photos of this steamer:

@Arnold D. Cribari - Arnold, that section of your layout is very photogenic.  I love the lighting on the depot and how it sets up the scene.  Great job, you need to show that more often!

@CAPPilot - You know Ron, I will tell you that I love that very slow motion you have in your video.  It allows me to watch the wonderful and intricate motion of the valve gear on your steamer.  So many of the videos that get posted have the engine go by so fast all you can see is a blur.  Thanks for posting.

Best Wishes

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

@Arnold D. Cribari - Arnold, that section of your layout is very photogenic.  I love the lighting on the depot and how it sets up the scene.  Great job, you need to show that more often!

@CAPPilot - You know Ron, I will tell you that I love that very slow motion you have in your video.  It allows me to watch the wonderful and intricate motion of the valve gear on your steamer.  So many of the videos that get posted have the engine go by so fast all you can see is a blur.  Thanks for posting.

Best Wishes

Don

Thanks Don, for your kind words. I enjoy your posts on the Forum as well. Arnold

Arnold, I’d like to see you get more use out of your Yard Goat.  I had a similar problem with two of my PS3 equipped steamers; the “wireless tether” on these engines used to loosen up where the tether plugs into the tender.  At the suggestion of a friend, I secured the tether and plug by wrapping a black plastic twist tie around them.  The problem went away.

The configuration of your tether is completely different, but I was wondering if you could wrap a twist tie around the tether plug and attach it some place under the engine, like the tender drawbar.  Just thinking.

John

@Steam Crazy posted:

Arnold, I’d like to see you get more use out of your Yard Goat.  I had a similar problem with two of my PS3 equipped steamers; the “wireless tether” on these engines used to loosen up where the tether plugs into the tender.  At the suggestion of a friend, I secured the tether and plug by wrapping a black plastic twist tie around them.  The problem went away.

The configuration of your tether is completely different, but I was wondering if you could wrap a twist tie around the tether plug and attach it some place under the engine, like the tender drawbar.  Just thinking.

John

John, that’s a great idea! I will try that black plastic tie twist trick in the next day or two and report back. Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Here’s another steamer of mine in a video taken of a section of my layout rarely, if ever, seen on the Forum:

That steamer is a recent Lionel Legacy model that cost about $750. Unfortunately, IMO, even though it is supposed to run well through O31 curves, the tether plug from the tender often gets slightly unseated in the receptacle on the back of the locomotive causing it to stall when running through 031 curves so I rarely run it.

Arnold

Arnold,

You may have fewer problems if you make the tether longer so it can bend more easily. The tether can be modified by cutting each wire of the tether and splicing in an additional length (say 2 inches) of wire. However, there are many wires in the tether so it may be a job best left to a model train electronics technician. I would try that...

MELGAR

John, Melgar and all others interested:

I just spent an hour manipulating a black twist tie around the tether plug and drawbar attempting to keep the plug fully seated in the receptacle while the locomotive runs through the 031 tubular track curves on my layout.

i was elated the first time I ran it after I applied the twist tie because the locomotive worked as it ran through a few of my curves. However my elation was short lived. It stalled. Then I manipulated that twist tie around the plug and drawbar again and again thinking if I made it a little tighter that it would work, but no cigar. It stalled each time.

To say I’m disappointed with the end result is an understatement, but I enjoyed the challenge and Rube Goldberg type of potential fixes like this one.

I believe that if the plug gets the tiniest bit unseated, then the locomotive will stall.

I previously returned the locomotive twice to Lionel while it was under warranty, and they claimed it ran fine through their 031 curves. I believe them, but doubt that they used postwar tubular track 031 curves and those in postwar 022 switches. And, I doubt if they ever tested it on such 031 curves when they designed it.

Melgar, those tether wires are very delicate and I won’t attempt your recommended fix. Also, I believe I need a very smart train doctor to come to my house to attempt fixes like the one you recommend to run it on my layout. Maybe one of the local Railboys can do that.

The thought occurred to me that maybe the tether plug can be glued into the receptacle in some clever way to fix the problem of the plug becoming the slightest bit unseated (like the size of an atom). My concern with that fix is obvious: what happens if I need to remove the plug from the receptacle to have the locomotive and tender serviced.

But for this problem, it would be one of my favorite locomotives, It’s otherwise a wonderful locomotive, especially the swinging bell that is activated when pressing the bell button on the handheld remote.

Any more thoughts?

Arnold

Arnold, I’m also disappointed my suggestion didn’t work.  I knew it wasn’t going to be easy to fasten a twist tie to hold the plug in place.

I do, however, have a couple more thoughts.  The first is check to see if there’s any slack in the tether (or make some slack by rearranging wires) inside the tender.  If there is, you could pull it out to increase the length of the tether between the engine and tender.

The second is trying to fasten the plug with hot glue.  I don’t think hot glue would be too difficult to remove, if necessary.  You could try an adhesive like epoxy, too, but I don’t know how hard it would be to remove it.

Good luck!

John

@Arnold D. Cribari - Arnold I read the above and your original message and was thinking of possible solutions.  Here is an old fashioned, "brute force" idea you might try, perhaps as a last resort.  Why not eliminate the plug.  Open up the receptacle and the plug and  permanently wire the connection together, using solder perhaps.  With enough slack it should be able to make the curves.  Just a thought.

Don

Arnold, I just realized I didn't explain my glue option properly.  What I was thinking was applying the glue to the outside of the plug while it's plugged in.  If you applied glue to the male end of the plug and plugged it in, you'd probably ruin the electrical connection and maybe make it impossible to remove..

John

John and Don, thanks so much for your thoughts. I probably will not do them myself but down the road share them with a train doctor expert and have that expert do the repair.

Before that, I will try another Rube Goldberg potential fix that I thought of: use black electrical tape to keep the tether plug fully seated in the receptacle.

The tethers on these 0-6-0 engines look like something you would see in an engineering mule before everything was refined. I wanted one pretty bad but passed because I was worried about it. Hopefully there is a workable remedy for these nice-looking engines.

Arnold, a clarification of option I: I’m not talking about disconnecting or cutting any wires.  I’m just suggesting removing the tender shell to see if there’s a way to pull the tether wires toward the engine.  I bet a half inch of slack would do the trick.

John

@Steam Crazy posted:

Arnold, a clarification of option I: I’m not talking about disconnecting or cutting any wires.  I’m just suggesting removing the tender shell to see if there’s a way to pull the tether wires toward the engine.  I bet a half inch of slack would do the trick.

John

Thanks again John. Will try that in next day or two and report back.

Arnold, your mention of electrical tape gave me another idea.  You could try a small piece of tape attached to one side of the plug.  If it will fit, it might be snug enough to make it around your O31-curves.

John