The following 3rd Rail items have been cancelled

@p51 posted:

Heck, Bachmann made four different ET&WNC ten-wheelers in On30 and not a single freight or passenger car lettered for the same railroad. I asked a Bachmann rep at the NMRA convention in Portland about that and even he couldn't give me an answer.

Heck, WBB offered a VERY popular (traditional) SP 4-8-4 in Daylight colors that was a hit at our mid-Michigan LHS when 4449 came to Owosso several years ago.  Sold a bunch of them.  Great runners, just what the kids...old, and not so...wanted in remembrance of that awesome visit!

But, then they wanted some Daylight passenger cars to go with them!  And WBB had zippo to offer, and no prospect.  Lionel didn't even grab the timely opportunity for a market score!   

I may have talked with the same Bachmann rep as did you at a York meet following 4449's visit.  'How come?', asked I.   Answer: 'I don't know.' (crickets in the background.)  Go figure.  No, wait!...don't bother.  The steam visit is a faded memory, and WBB appears to be, well,...who knows?

The conundrums and enigmas never cease, do they

@dkdkrd posted:

Heck, WBB offered a VERY popular (traditional) SP 4-8-4 in Daylight colors that was a hit at our mid-Michigan LHS when 4449 came to Owosso several years ago.  Sold a bunch of them.  Great runners, just what the kids...old, and not so...wanted in remembrance of that awesome visit!

But, then they wanted some Daylight passenger cars to go with them!

The 60' SP car sets are listed on eBay all the time.  Go search ebay for them and you can get an email heads up every time they are listed.              j

@BobbyD posted:

A working Dynamometer car would be fantastic!

Let's hope @sdmann considers it!

@JohnActon posted:

The 60' SP car sets are listed on eBay all the time.  Go search ebay for them and you can get an email heads up every time they are listed.              j

Sure.  In fact back in July 2009, around the time 4449 came a-callin' to Owosso, that's just what I did myself!  Snagged all 7 Daylight 'aluminium' cars by Williams...not WBB.  Never run...$175 for the lot.  Not a bad deal even back then.

But when you're a hobby shop trying to make through-the-door customers happy...and the shop owner is trying to make a buck...to buy eggs for the family!...Ebay is not a wholesale solution du jour. 

Don't get me wrong.  We behind the counter at the LHS, if time permitted, would often do a quick Ebay search for something the customer sought that we neither had in stock or could readily locate among our wholesale sources to order...in a timely fashion.  If we found a possibility or two, we'd share it with the customer.  But it was always up to the customer to follow through themselves for that sort of purchase.   The store had no skin in the game.  OTOH, it helped solidify customer relations for future sales.

Thanks for the thought, though.

KD

It seems Norm’s continued plea for a proper mass produced 3 rail scale, N&W CF or CG caboose is falling on deaf ears. I sure would like to see that. Even though I own 2 brass CG, 1 brass CF & an unbuilt Quality Craft CF caboose (all 2 rail scale), I’d still buy at least 1 mass produced CF or CG caboose, probably 2, if Lionel, Atlas or MTH made them.😊

I wonder if anyone would be interested in at least decals for their own project. I know my Quality Craft kit needs correct decals…Hmm?

Is there any word on the Allegheny offering?

@kanawha posted:

Curious about what rolling stock you would like to see Scott make? Between Lionel, MTH, and Atlas there is a lot of good, scale rolling stock available from them. What's missing?

Personally I would like to see a scale, 85 foot, early to mid 60's auto carrier with open sides. The modern, fully enclosed auto carriers aren't that interesting looking.

Ken

The Palace Poultry and similar cars are a possibility.  The only ones I've found are Lionel's semi-scale toy car, and an Overland 2R Brass one that goes for a fortune secondhand.  Not that I wouldn't pay that price if I could get a 3R decorated version brand-new.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

I know there's way more $$ pursuing big scale motive power but not offering a caboose once in a while to go with them seems like money is being left on the table. If someone plunked down $1500+ on a state of the art scale steam engine, I doubt that person would balk at spending another ~$350 for a properly rendered scale caboose model.

Transfer/work cabeese are few and far between.  Another example of a Lionel 0-27 model and not much else.  I know they were highly variable, but just something full scale would interest me.  I'd even paint it myself.

Suggest the early EMD NW5 road switcher, in Great Northern and Burlington Northern paint schemes.

@Phoebe Snow Route posted:

Is there any word on the Allegheny offering?

Sunset/3rd Rail produced the C&O H-8 2-6-6-6 many, MANY years ago, so I doubt Scott would offer that model again.

@Hot Water posted:

Sunset/3rd Rail produced the C&O H-8 2-6-6-6 many, MANY years ago, so I doubt Scott would offer that model again.

Isn't that what is available to reserve on the 3rd Rail website?  Here

@rdunniii posted:

Due to lack of reservations.

Dash 9s

Sierra 38

SP MM# and WP206 Steam locomotives

NYC R-1

Betcha didn’t think you would unleash this chain of comments !!!! 😮😳🫢🤔🤔🤔🤔 Good fun though !!! 😜👍

@MikeH posted:

Isn't that what is available to reserve on the 3rd Rail website?  Here

Hmmm. Looks like it 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔  If that’s true, that Might deter it from hitting the minimum needed reservation #.  

I'm not a huge steam guy (I don't really have the space on my layout), but I might make an exception for an SP cab forward. Other than that, I'm pretty good with modern diesels. I can actually afford diesels.

@VADarthDad posted:

EMD FP-45?  I heard these will probably never get off the ground, either.

I know it's not likely to happen but the FP45s would be awesome, I would go for them for sure. I am very happy the SD40s are still a go, can't wait to see those. I'd also be in for a Big Dome, in BNSF business car livery if Scott ever does another import of those.

John

@TrainBub posted:

Betcha didn’t think you would unleash this chain of comments !!!! 😮😳🫢🤔🤔🤔🤔 Good fun though !!! 😜👍

Especially with 90+% having nothing to do with the original subject.

@Hot Water posted:

Sunset/3rd Rail produced the C&O H-8 2-6-6-6 many, MANY years ago, so I doubt Scott would offer that model again.

Contrary to what you state here. He IS offering it.

@mark s posted:

Suggest the early EMD NW5 road switcher, in Great Northern and Burlington Northern paint schemes.

Mark, it is my understanding that they couldn’t fit the 3rail electronics in a SW1 body. Perhaps with the bluenami line small road switchers like these could be possible to offer in 3 rail? And ESU for 2rail?

@rdunniii posted:

Especially with 90+% having nothing to do with the original subject.

True.  The cleansing of Stale offerings was overdue. However, the comments are good for 3rd Rail to “mine” for what people want to see offered in the future.

Thanks for the "lead in" TrainBub, i.e., "mine" for what people want.

I want Scott to do the FM Train Master.  Who else is in for the FMTM?

Regards,

Ed

@SANTIAGOP23 posted:

Mark, it is my understanding that they couldn’t fit the 3rail electronics in a SW1 body. Perhaps with the bluenami line small road switchers like these could be possible to offer in 3 rail? And ESU for 2rail?

Santiago - Guess I am from the Paleolithic Age, but I don't know what bluenami and ESU are. An NW5 has a "nose" like an SW7 switcher and another "nose" that would be more or less the equivalent of the GP7 "nose".  Do they get the electronics in a GP7? 

@mark s posted:

Santiago - Guess I am from the Paleolithic Age, but I don't know what bluenami and ESU are. An NW5 has a "nose" like an SW7 switcher and another "nose" that would be more or less the equivalent of the GP7 "nose".  Do they get the electronics in a GP7?

Mark, it’s ok. ESU  makes doc decoders and Scott has been using them in their latest releases. Soundtraxx Blunami are decoders that don’t exclusively use the dcc protocol. All they require is track power and a wifi signal. The user uses their phone or tablet to interface via a Soundtraxx app. Soundtraxx also makes DCC decoders. My point was that 3 railers can take advantage of Blunami decoders since they don’t require a dcc control station.

@sdmann posted:

....We will do reruns of E7, PAs, possibly FTs and FL9 in the coming years....

I realize this is the 2RS forum, but if Scott reran PA1s in PRR as-delivered paint (DGLE/5-stripe) in both 2- and 3-rail, I would be in for the 3-rail version.

Heaven help me. Something about this thread grabbed me an now I want to order an H-10 or a pair of SD40s.
I do not need another train. I do not need another train.

Yes, most certaintly the FM Train Master is on my wish list. The demonstrator C&LS are spectactular. Serious $$ investment even back then. Attainable thru 3rd rail. 

@SANTIAGOP23 posted:

Mark, it’s ok. ESU  makes doc decoders and Scott has been using them in their latest releases. Soundtraxx Blunami are decoders that don’t exclusively use the dcc protocol. All they require is track power and a wifi signal. The user uses their phone or tablet to interface via a Soundtraxx app. Soundtraxx also makes DCC decoders. My point was that 3 railers can take advantage of Blunami decoders since they don’t require a dcc control station.

A Blunami option for 3 rail is of much interest to me, especially for diesel models. The Soundtraxx diesel decoders sound really awesome and offer a tremendous amount of user programable sound and lighting effects. Does anyone know if the Blunami’s will play well in a Legacy/TMCC environment? The one problem with DCC is that both systems can’t be used sumultaneously on the same track due to signal interference. I would hope the bluetooth overcomes this.

Looking forward to new offerings I can support. Nothing currently offered interests me, sadly. I did want PAs but the paint scheme I wanted wasn’t offered. I could go for a Santa Fe FT set or a CB&Q red bird SD7. PAs would be my first choice tho.

Santiago  - The recently released Soundtraxx Blunami decoders are not compatible with AC on the rails.  Powering options include DC, DCC, or an on-board battery (dead rail).  I'm a long term DCC user and have recently ordered a 4 amp Blunami steam decoder to play with.  The Blunami decoder will enable me to run the locomotive under Bluetooth or DCC control on my DCC layout - or under Bluetooth control on a friend's traditional block controlled DC layout.

A big cost advantage of Blunami decoders is that they provide the flexibility and features of DCC, without having to invest in command stations, boosters, and radio throttles.  Also of significance is that users can configure and fine tune the decoder’s sounds, motor control, and lighting outputs with a user friendly app without knowing what CV does what.

Ah, that fine print! Thanks for the clarification, Ed!

I would love to see a proper wood side Indiana Harbor Belt caboose to run behind my 0-8-0 on my future switching layout.  Its hard to even find pics of cabooses from the steam era on the IHB online. 

Regarding the AC track power comment with the Blunami decoders, this confuses me. DCC systems put out AC power to the track. Why will an AC power supply connected to the track not work? Does the decoder need a DCC signal in conjuction with the AC power to operate?

Really curious what Soundtraxx’ explanation is for this.

The comment that The Blunami decoder can’t handle AC on the rails came directly from a SoundTraxx exec.  See the discussion about Blunami in the DCC section of the forum.  One of the fellows there indicated he was going to do some experimentation with putting a bridge rectifier on the locomotive between the rails and the Blunami.  

The DCC wave form is not like an AC wave form.  It pulses from on to off of variable duration - but never changes polarity.  Google “DCC wave form” for a technical explanation of the difference.  

@Keystoned Ed posted:

The comment that The Blunami decoder can’t handle AC on the rails came directly from a SoundTraxx exec.  See the discussion about Blunami in the DCC section of the forum.  One of the fellows there indicated he was going to do some experimentation with putting a bridge rectifier on the locomotive between the rails and the Blunami.  I think that should work.

the DCC wave form in not like an AC wave form.  It pulses from on to off of variable duration - but never changes polarity.  Google “DCC wave form” for a technical definition.  

Not Sure if that last part is correct. I always thought it did change polarity but I could be wrong. I googled it and I could not where it definitively states if it changes polarity or not but I did find: (from DCC Wiki)

NMRA Digital Command Control, unlike other analog and digital Command Control systems, puts a 100% digital signal onto the rails, delivering both power and data in the same signal. The digital information is encoded in the time domain by pulse width, not amplitude. It is not superimposed on a DC or AC waveform, nor does it use a high frequency carrier, unlike past and current command control systems. Since the rails are alternately energized or held to zero, there are no issues with polarity.

Since the signal is completely digital, the NMRA Digital Command Control ^[1] waveform is a square wave. The nature of a square wave results in more demanding requirements for wiring to avoid voltage losses and signal distortion compared to analog control methods.

and...(from NMRA.org)

"The baseline method for providing the power to operate locomotives and accessories, which shall be
supported by all Digital Command Stations and Digital Decoders, is by full-wave rectification of
the bipolar NMRA digital signal within the Digital Decoder. In order to maintain power to the
Digital Decoders, gaps in bit transmission are only allowed at specified times (see S-9.2, Section C)."

Well after doing some more research it apears Ed is mostly correct. It isn't that the DCC never changes polarity but that it has NO polarity. (also from DCC Wiki)

Digital Command Control has no concept of polarity. Binary signals do not have the concept of negative. A negative voltage would be considered an Undefined Value.

The track voltage on an oscilloscope's display indicates the presence of a plus/minus signal. It "sees" a negative voltage when the booster flips the rails, as the reference point is floating. There is no common reference point held to a zero potential. Another way to look at this is how the current is flowing: It will flow from A to B, then B to A. The scope trace will display this.

I kind of get it now. It is constantly flipping the voltage on the track from one rail to the other rail but since there is no reference point of O volts it cannot be considered AC.

Apparently all you need to make Blunami work with AC track power is an inexpensive "buck converter" like Pete is using.  I hope this link works:

https://ogrforum.com/...8#172048746208211288

I think the converter rectifies, smooths, and regulates the track AC, which "tricks" the Blunami or any other decoder into thinking that it's being powered by filtered DC or battery power.  I would also guess that the converter circuit board takes up less volume than a battery suitable to power an O gauge model for any length of time.  The Blunami IS DCC compatible, but DCC is not required because it can also be controlled via Bluetooth and a proprietary (now there's a dirty word!)  iPhone app.  So far no joy for Android users, or those who yearn for a physical controller.

@sdmann I was wondering how the Crescent set is looking in terms of reservations/ design/ production. I haven't seen as much buzz on the forum on that set as the Eagle set announced at the same time. The website still lists the incorrect sleeper/ kitchen car and diner combo rather than the regular kitchen/ diner car that actually ran on the train.

In terms of freight cars, I too would like Trinity 64' reefers or any other modern offerings.

Thanks so much for all of your contributions to this hobby!

@Will Ebbert posted:

I was wondering how the Crescent set is looking in terms of reservations/ design/ production. I haven't seen as much buzz on the forum on that set as the Eagle set announced at the same time. The website still lists the incorrect sleeper/ kitchen car and diner combo rather than the regular kitchen/ diner car that actually ran on the train.

Maybe a rerun of re-engineered GG1s to go with the Crescent north of DC would put it over the top?

No inside knowledge on that one, just dreaming as one can never have enough GG1s which then means I need more trains to pull with them. 

In all seriousness, I rode the Crescent in 1973 and probably should put an order in for a set.  I was only 4 and my memories are not complete, but the ones I do have stick with me to this day such as the bedroom in the sleeper and sleeping in the upper berth, how professional and friendly the porters were, and the dome cars.  Somewhere I still have my little toiletry bag that they gave all the children branded for the Southern Railway.  Great memories that I should capture in O scale.  As a teen I saw the E8s pulling commuters to the Jersey Shore in their Southern Green after the Crescent was transferred to Amtrak and NJDOT bought the locomotives. 

Those sound like great memories Jonathan! I've got four Lionel E8s in Virginia green waiting for something to pull. If the set does get made, I plan on painting the roofs black to represent the later years of the train. I know that means know observation car but I can find a dome car to add.

Talking about the Crescent, I just reserved a couple weeks ago. New reservations are out there, but more knowledge of the GGD offerings would help push it over the top. If you’re in an O scale club or even a Facebook group, spread the word. This forum and a few magazine ads are great, but Scott needs the word spread on many of these offerings to reach O-gaugers who might not know just how good the offerings are. I’ve met several serious guys in 3-rail who weren’t buyers beyond Lionel/MTH/Atlas who have fallen in love with what Sunset has to offer, they just needed to see the product.