Just started to play with Bluetrain. Have a question:

I can get Bluetrain to connect to the Lionel wifi module when the module is in access point mode, and everything is fine. However, I'd prefer to connect through my home network, because I use other apps/programs that connect that way, e.g., LSU, Wifi Monitor LE, iCAB, iPad app.

When I go to Bluetrain's settings, select Legacy, then client, it wants the Legacy IP address. I've tried putting in the address that LSU and Wifi Monitor LE are currently using successfully to connect to the wifi module, but that doesn't seem to work.

What is the correct way to get Bluetrain to connect to my home network?

I don't know how Bluetrain is connected to LCS.  How is it using the WiFi module?

@Keith L posted:

When I go to Bluetrain's settings, select Legacy, then client, it wants the Legacy IP address. I've tried putting in the address that LSU and Wifi Monitor LE are currently using successfully to connect to the wifi module, but that doesn't seem to work.

In order to connect Bluetrain to your home network, I suspect you either have to configure something like DHCP to automatically assign it an IP address from the router, or configure a fixed address.  You obviously would NOT use an IP address on the router that is already connecting to the WiFi module, that one is in use!

When you connect to the router directly with all the devices, it's a star arrangement, and the router is in the center of the star.  Each connection around the router has a unique IP address, you never share them.

@Keith L posted:

Just started to play with Bluetrain. Have a question:

I can get Bluetrain to connect to the Lionel wifi module when the module is in access point mode, and everything is fine. However, I'd prefer to connect through my home network, because I use other apps/programs that connect that way, e.g., LSU, Wifi Monitor LE, iCAB, iPad app.

When I go to Bluetrain's settings, select Legacy, then client, it wants the Legacy IP address. I've tried putting in the address that LSU and Wifi Monitor LE are currently using successfully to connect to the wifi module, but that doesn't seem to work.

What is the correct way to get Bluetrain to connect to my home network?

Keith - I don’t think it works that way.  Bluerail on your phone is an Ap that sends commands directly to your engines equipped with a Bluerail board.  To my knowledge, it’s not intended to interface with your legacy system.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I don't know how Bluetrain is connected to LCS.  How is it using the WiFi module?

I'm able to connect Bluetrain to the LCS wifi module by setting the wifi module to Access Point Mode (making it a hotspot) and setting my phone's wifi to the LCS network. That works fine--but it's inconvenient.

In order to connect Bluetrain to your home network, I suspect you either have to configure something like DHCP to automatically assign it an IP address from the router, or configure a fixed address.  You obviously would NOT use an IP address on the router that is already connecting to the WiFi module, that one is in use!

When you connect to the router directly with all the devices, it's a star arrangement, and the router is in the center of the star.  Each connection around the router has a unique IP address, you never share them.

I guess my router is using DHCP or equivalent to assign IP addresses. I can observe the process when I connect LSU or Wifi Monitor LE on my PC, and I assume something similar happens when I connect the iPad app or iCAB on my iPad. Any idea how I would get that to happen when I open Bluetrain on my Android phone (in addition to setting the phone's wifi to my home network)? Or perhaps is the phone or Bluetrain lacking that functionality, and, if not, would need a fixed address in order to connect to my home network?

@davidbross posted:

Keith - I don’t think it works that way.  Bluerail on your phone is an Ap that sends commands directly to your engines equipped with a Bluerail board.  To my knowledge, it’s not intended to interface with your legacy system.

Bluetrain, not Bluerail.

  Boy I gotta learn how to read. Lol.

@Keith L posted:

Bluetrain, not Bluerail.

I see no way to connect to the network and not directly to the WiFi itself.  I tried it here and got similar results.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I see no way to connect to the network and not directly to the WiFi itself.  I tried it here and got similar results.

OK, John, thank you.

It's interesting that when you go into Bluetrain's settings, you can set Legacy to be a host or a client, and if you select client, a field appears for the Legacy client address. Perhaps this would only work if your Legacy system had a fixed IP address (I wouldn't know how to set one up, or if I would want to); or perhaps this piece of Bluetrain just doesn't work, period.

I actually don't know what those terms mean in BlueTrain, but it hasn't been updated in quite a while.  Also note that it's been removed from the Google Play Store.

New LCS issue.   I decided to wire up my IRV2 box and put a couple of track IR sleds on my Gargraves track.  Wired everything up, plugged in the 20 foot cable from my other boxes, and fired up the layout.  Nothing on the LCS side of things works!

Unplugged the 20 foot cable to the IRV2, everything works again!

OK, I have the SER2, WiFi, and four CSM2 boxes, maybe I need the terminator.  I quickly build a terminator with the .01uf cap on it and plugged that into the IRV2 box and reconnected the 20 foot cable.  DEAD AGAIN!  AGGGGGHHH!

Now what?  Is this really the end of the road?

John, in my LCS network I needed a booster module after 40' of cable and 8 LCS devices. The second one is after the next 34' of cable and 5 devices. It continues on with a booster about every 40' and 7 LCS devices to the end of the run. A terminator was not required. The LCS system would not work without the booster amplifiers/couplers.

One of my IRV2 boxes is faulty - but the sensors are good.  Have you tried another box?  Is LCS comms dead beyond the IRV2 or does the thing kill all LCS comms?

@AmFlyer posted:

John, in my LCS network I needed a booster module after 40' of cable and 8 LCS devices. The second one is after the next 34' of cable and 5 devices. It continues on with a booster about every 40' and 7 LCS devices to the end of the run. A terminator was not required. The LCS system would not work without the booster amplifiers/couplers.

Booster amps?

These, Lionel calls them Joiners, powered by 12VDC. Available only by calling Lionel customer service.

@Tracker John posted:

One of my IRV2 boxes is faulty - but the sensors are good.  Have you tried another box?  Is LCS comms dead beyond the IRV2 or does the thing kill all LCS comms?

It kills all my LCS comm, nothing on that bus works.  I swapped the IRV2, same result.

@AmFlyer posted:

These, Lionel calls them Joiners, powered by 12VDC. Available only by calling Lionel customer service.

WOW, never heard of this one, but I'll sure be calling to see if I can get one to hopefully fix this issue!  Thanks for the heads-up!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

It kills all my LCS comm, nothing on that bus works.  I swapped the IRV2, same result.

WOW, never heard of this one, but I'll sure be calling to see if I can get one to hopefully fix this issue!  Thanks for the heads-up!

Well then you weren't paying attention at the LUG meetings.  We covered this a couple of times.  Shame on you!  LOL!

@MartyE posted:

Well then you weren't paying attention at the LUG meetings.  We covered this a couple of times.  Shame on you!  LOL!

Apparently I wasn't attentive, as I don't remember this being discussed.  Of course, it's been so long since the last York that I probably just forgot!

FYI, 691-JOIN-B01 is the B Revision, which has the power supply connector. Revision A did not have the connector.

Gee, I called Lionel and they claim I'm reaching them outside their normal business hours of 9:00AM to 5:00PM.  I wonder on which planet 10:30AM is not within those hours!

@Dave Olson posted:

FYI, 691-JOIN-B01 is the B Revision, which has the power supply connector. Revision A did not have the connector.

I’d like to just order the B joiner, why the special telephone request?

@cjack posted:

I’d like to just order the B joiner, why the special telephone request?

This and the "terminator".  Just list them in the parts or in the catalog.  I agree I'd like to see these just listed on the parts site.

Also the part number is 691-JOIN-B00, not B01. But I could only get it to come up with a partial number of 691JOIN

Wonder what the schematic looks like...

@Dave Olson posted:

FYI, 691-JOIN-B01 is the B Revision, which has the power supply connector. Revision A did not have the connector.

I'm curious where the support folks that answer the phone are today, I get a recording that I'm calling outside of business hours.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm curious where the support folks that answer the phone are today, I get a recording that I'm calling outside of business hours.

Maybe they have caller ID. 

Very harsh Marty, but possibly true.  I'll try blocking my ID and see if they answer.

I think the Joiner looks just like a cable wiring with pins 1,4, and 5 straight thru. And pins 2 and 3 crossed over. Then there is a resistor and LED across 5V which I'm calling pin 1 and GND pin 5.

But the B Joiner has a couple diodes and a power input. A boost of 5 vdc? and what...some protection against back feeding the power?

I have 62 feet of cable wiring on my wifi, ser2, and 6 sensor tracks...so far.

I think the four CSM2 boxes I have strung out after the SER2 and WiFi are probably degrading the power.  It appears that the PDI BUS JOINER is really a power tap to power the additional devices.  Probably the six boxes I am already powering are as much as the SER2 power brick can handle.  If I had a schematic of the board, I could build one for myself, it appears it just injects power to the boxes down the line.  I am guessing the two diodes are reverse polarity protection, but that's just a guess.

Back in September of 2016 when my layout was near completion but with a non working LCS, Rudy Trubitt and Jon Z built a mockup of my LCS in their lab. They confirmed the voltage was down to about 2.5V after the 8th device and 50' of cable. The final install I have with 5 of the powered joiners was as suggested by Rudy and Jon and the LCS has always worked.

The function of the Joiner is to bring the voltage back to 5V and provide additional power to supply devices downstream of its location.

Well, I guess that's the first thing I need to obtain in order to get my IRV2 boxes working and use my sensor sleds.

One more thing. The problem was not 8 devices and 50' of cable. If the connecting cable to the rest of the LCS was unplugged from from the 8th device the first 8 LCS devices worked sometimes. Taking off the 8th device, the first seven worked all the time. When the remaining 35 LCS devices were reconnected nothing worked. For the whole system to work with 100% reliability, 5 joiners were needed.

John, I hope that solves your issue, it is an easy fix if it does. I have no IRV2's since they did not exist back then, I just have three of the original sensor tracks with home made cables to remotely mount the control circuit boards from the under-track detector board.

I sold all my original sensor tracks since the IRV2 was available.  I have two IRV2 boxes and six of the sleds.  I want to get all this working, but there are still roadblocks.

I'll probably put the joiner at the panel where the six devices are and drive the two or three remaining remote LCS boxes with that power.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I sold all my original sensor tracks since the IRV2 was available.  I have two IRV2 boxes and six of the sleds.  I want to get all this working, but there are still roadblocks.

I'll probably put the joiner at the panel where the six devices are and drive the two or three remaining remote LCS boxes with that power.

Using the WiFi monitor program you can see the voltage at the module in question.  Might be worth a sniff.

When I plug the cable to the IRV2 in, everything stops working, including the WiFi.  However, it might be useful to see what is going on with the existing modules, I forgot about the voltage reading.

I bought an IRV2 just because I didn't have one, and just now plugged it in to see if it's gonna work. I didn't program it, but all seems normal on the system. Yours must be a direct short or something. Check the 5 volts across the connector pins and see if it's affected or some such...pins 1 and 5. Seems like if your wifi goes dead, you're not going to see the LCS come up.

Well...  One of them is bad.  It's not a direct short, because it lights up and the traffic LED blinks as I spin the remote wheel.  For some reason I was having similar issues with both boxes, but now the second one is working as it should.  So, I guess I'm going to have to get this one replaced, another PITA!

One odd thing happens with the WiFi Monitor, it shows boxes I don't have, and even tries to give me status of them.

I don't have an STM2 or a BPC2.  However, I have four CSM2 boxes, and they don't show up at all!

UGH!  Mystery solved!  I think QC needs a little work on the production line!

I was hoping it was something simple and I could just fix it and not waste time getting it replaced.  That  ain't happening as it turns out!  I have to suspect this was not tested prior to shipment!  I was tempted to try cleaning all this off to see what it looked like, but resisted and just put it back together.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well...  One of them is bad.  It's not a direct short, because it lights up and the traffic LED blinks as I spin the remote wheel.  For some reason I was having similar issues with both boxes, but now the second one is working as it should.  So, I guess I'm going to have to get this one replaced, another PITA!

One odd thing happens with the WiFi Monitor, it shows boxes I don't have, and even tries to give me status of them.

I don't have an STM2 or a BPC2.  However, I have four CSM2 boxes, and they don't show up at all!

Wonder if the CSM2s and IRV2s weren’t available yet to be part of the application. Odd about the BPC and STM. Unless it shows all possible modules but then again I don’t see an ASC2 listed either.

It's odd, that's for sure.  I can unplug all the modules except for the SER2 and WiFi, those don't show up then.  Maybe it's because I haven't wired, my CSM2 boxes to the switches yet, and it's confused about what they are?

They come back with all the CSM2 boxes and the IRV2 connected.  There are four CSM2 boxes connected and one IRV2 connected.  It looks like the IRV2 shows each track sled, I programmed the one I have installed so far at #90.

Now I'm wondering if some of the CSM2 boxes are dead as well.