@MartyE posted:Wonder if the CSM2s and IRV2s weren’t available yet to be part of the application. Odd about the BPC and STM. Unless it shows all possible modules but then again I don’t see an ASC2 listed either.
The Wifi Monitor LE shows all, and only, the LCS modules I have, included my IRV2's.
I think maybe I have more modules to verify if they're working, I have to get those wired...
@Keith L posted:The Wifi Monitor LE shows all, and only, the LCS modules I have, included my IRV2's.
Thanks Keith.
@AmFlyer posted:One more thing. The problem was not 8 devices and 50' of cable. If the connecting cable to the rest of the LCS was unplugged from from the 8th device the first 8 LCS devices worked sometimes. Taking off the 8th device, the first seven worked all the time. When the remaining 35 LCS devices were reconnected nothing worked. For the whole system to work with 100% reliability, 5 joiners were needed.
35 LCS devices? Wow - Lionel's special cable supplier loves you!
Nice to hear it can be made work with that complicated of a setup.
Jim
To be precise, it is 35 after the first 7 so the total is 42, plus the 5 Joiners for a total of 47 LCS devices that required interconnecting cables. The system has worked every time for the past five years. Lionel got a lot of revenue from this poor S gauge operator!
Of all the LCS devices, two ASC2's have failed. The failure was the same for both, on startup they would not remember their programming. I could reprogram them for the current operating session but the next time I turned on the layout they would not work. The only issue was the TMCC ID, the rest of the settings were still in memory. I just replaced them with spares, no more device failures in the last 24 months.
Progress, but still a small mystery. Apparently, the WiFi Monitor doesn't know what to do if the boxes aren't properly configured, something that I figured might be an issue. After I configured all the CSM2 boxes, they show up as expected. Apparently, the CSM2 boxes are mis-identified as STM2 boxes in the monitor, probably because they perform a similar function, just for the DZ-2500 switch machines. Finally it appears that the IRV2 shows up for each configured IR sled, so if you have four connected, I presume it would show up four times. I have the one plugged into the first connector, and it must come defaulted to have two programmed.
The mystery is still the BPC2 that shows up, I don't have one of those. However, the CSM2 has block power capability, so "maybe" that's one of those showing up. However, I would presume all of them would show up if that was the case.
Is anyone else using the CSM2 boxes? If so, how do they show up in your WiFi Monitor display?
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Progress, but still a small mystery. Apparently, the WiFi Monitor doesn't know what to do if the boxes aren't properly configured, something that I figured might be an issue. After I configured all the CSM2 boxes, they show up as expected. Apparently, the CSM2 boxes are mis-identified as STM2 boxes in the monitor, probably because they perform a similar function, just for the DZ-2500 switch machines. Finally it appears that the IRV2 shows up for each configured IR sled, so if you have four connected, I presume it would show up four times. I have the one plugged into the first connector, and it must come defaulted to have two programmed.
The mystery is still the BPC2 that shows up, I don't have one of those. However, the CSM2 has block power capability, so "maybe" that's one of those showing up. However, I would presume all of them would show up if that was the case.
Is anyone else using the CSM2 boxes? If so, how do they show up in your WiFi Monitor display?
John, the CSM is a combination module, containing BPC2 and STM2 functionality. There were many reason that this was the best way to build and identify the module for the Apps. The WiFi Monitor Tool is useful, and giving you the pertinent information. You can blame me for the design !
@gunrunnerjohn posted:It's odd, that's for sure. I can unplug all the modules except for the SER2 and WiFi, those don't show up then. Maybe it's because I haven't wired, my CSM2 boxes to the switches yet, and it's confused about what they are?
They come back with all the CSM2 boxes and the IRV2 connected. There are four CSM2 boxes connected and one IRV2 connected. It looks like the IRV2 shows each track sled, I programmed the one I have installed so far at #90.
Now I'm wondering if some of the CSM2 boxes are dead as well.
The IRV2 is literally 4 independent IR tracks rolled into one module, with the sled sensors attached to each IR track electronics in the module. So it will show up as 4 independent "IR" in the Tool. Just think of the IRV2 as 4 independent sensor tracks.
Jon,
The WiFi Monitor has proved it's worth to me multiple times, no complaints! 
I figured the IRV2 might be handled as individual tracks. I'm a bit more confused about the presentation of the CSM2. I know that the CSM2 has the BPC functionality, but only one BPC2 shows up with the four CSM2 boxes. What happened to the other three BPC2 displays?
I'm really just getting started with the whole LCS configuration, so I'm bound to have some surprises and questions along the way.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Jon,
The WiFi Monitor has proved it's worth to me multiple times, no complaints!
I'm really just getting started with the whole LCS configuration, so I'm bound to have some surprises and questions along the way.
I would guess that the TMCC ID for the BPC's overlaps. Did you set their addresses to unique numbers?
The CSM2 boxes all have their switch TMCC addresses configured in increments of 7, but after looking in the manual, I see that I have to configure the block power stuff as well for it to show up. Since I'm not using it now, I think that mystery is solved. 
Well, I got the new IRV2 from ModelTrainStuff, and it doesn't kill my network. They turned around that RMA light lightning!
That being behind me, I'm back to figuring out the system. Ran into a little issue, it seems my SER2 box is kicking back an error.
I have no idea what this means, and I don't find much in the way of clarification. Is this something that is "normal", or should I be looking for trouble?
The NVM error looks a bit ominous, not sure what that means. I'm presuming that's Non-Volatile Memory. Is this just because it's not initialized or something else?
I have DZ2500 switches, hooked up to a LCS CSM2. The serial data is connected to a DZ2001 data wire attached to a SER2. For some reason the CSM2 serial data was hit or miss. This setup works every time thanks to Gunrunnerjohn's advice. I can change turnout positions on the LCS app and it shows the correct position however if a switch is changed by a derailer or by hand the LCS doesn't update that information. Is there something I am missing or do I need another LCS component? Thanks, John
@PRR1644 posted:I have DZ2500 switches, hooked up to a LCS CSM2. The serial data is connected to a DZ2001 data wire attached to a SER2. For some reason the CSM2 serial data was hit or miss. This setup works every time thanks to Gunrunnerjohn's advice. I can change turnout positions on the LCS app and it shows the correct position however if a switch is changed by a derailer or by hand the LCS doesn't update that information. Is there something I am missing or do I need another LCS component? Thanks, John
The CSM2 should have the ability, if connected correctly, to update the switch position on the LCS program. It's built into the module. I am not familiar enough with the CSM2 to help troubleshoot this as I use the STM module for my switch positions from FasTrack switches.
That being said the CSM2 module should be able to do what you want.
Exactly how do you have the CSM2 wired? All you should need is the green wire from the DZ-2500 to the sense inputs of the CSM2. As mentioned, I don't use the serial data out of the CSM2 due to initialization issues. I am using the CSM2 Breakout Boards in my installation, but that shouldn't change things.
I used the yellow wires from the dz2500. If I change positions on the app it works. If a switch is changed by derailed or by hand it does not show on the app. I am not using the breakout boards, I wonder if that’s it.
It sounds like it's not seeing the CSM2 status. I don't know why the yellow wire wouldn't work, but did you try the green wire?
No I didn’t try that yet. I will give it a shot. Thanks
Hi All, a shout out to Jon for continuing to reply to questions.
I have not been allowed to have a train layout for more than 10 years. I have moved from that "not allowed" to 9 by 8 bedroom and attached bathroom. I can't fit much of a layout under the bed.
Despite this, I have been purchasing LCS and other modules for future use, just can't use them yet.
So to me, the best thing that could happen is for Lionel or a former development person to form a small team to author a book describing all the modules, their specifications, program requirements, address requirements, capabilities, wiring diagrams, typical small medium, large layout diagrams, etc, so they are documented in a format for raw new users to understand, to also include in depth information for people as gifted as gunrunner John, and others. The command structure, mnemonics, for ALL abbreviations, should be included. What commands do should be explained. Glossaries for all the above should exist. Instruction manuals for ALL the possible modules that could be hooked up to the system should be included as an appendix, so they could be referenced when necessary in the text explaining how to use such devices. As a former military member, I learned to hate mnemonics. Still do hate unexplained ones.
I would be happy to help in developing the outline structure of such a book, to insure it appeals to all talents levels, raw beginner to seasoned programmers. I picture this book as a major undertaking, with input from many actual users, to hopefully, one or more members of the development team. I get the impression that most of these developers have been forced to move onto "greener" pastures. Howard would do anything to save a penny on any product, enough said about that! I understand such an undertaking would require a stamp of approval from Lionel for use of copyrighted information, and so forth.
This book would become the bible for TMCC, Legacy, and LCS control of the layout. I would value such a book with a cost of $50.00 or more, and would pay that in a heartbeat. It might even be possible to make a beginner version for a lesser cost. This would be especially true if the 3 ring binder approach were taken. Spiral binding, or even 3 ring binding would be good. I like 3 ring binding, so supplement and correction would be easy to do, like a Heathkit manual, or a stamp album. I know, "What's a stamp album?".
I hope the movers and shakers that are subject experts chime in on this post. so we could find out if it is even possible that we could assemble an internet/zoom meeting based team to begin this project, and get it done. I can think of 2 California based fellows, and 1 PA based fellow, that I would love to see, say, that they would be happy to contribute to this effort. I also say non-disclosure/non-participation contracts/pacts be d____d! I don't know the geographical layout of the development team, but Zoom and the internet can shrink the world.
I've only scratched the surface of where this book could go, and the audiences that might purchase it. It would mostly be a labor of love. There are many print to order professional book publishing companies, so publishing and distribution is already in the bag.
If we were fortunate, perhaps OGR could even act as a fundraiser/contributor/owner?? of such a book.
Like a book, this post could probably use some proof reading! :-)
@donhradio posted:So to me, the best thing that could happen is for Lionel or a former development person to form a small team to author a book describing all the modules, their specifications, program requirements, address requirements, capabilities, wiring diagrams, typical small medium, large layout diagrams, etc, so they are documented in a format for raw new users to understand, to also include in depth information for people as gifted as gunrunner John, and others. The command structure, mnemonics, for ALL abbreviations, should be included. What commands do should be explained. Glossaries for all the above should exist. Instruction manuals for ALL the possible modules that could be hooked up to the system should be included as an appendix, so they could be referenced when necessary in the text explaining how to use such devices. As a former military member, I learned to hate mnemonics. Still do hate unexplained ones.
I suspect that falls into this category. 
I tried the green wire And no change. I put in a call to Aaron at Lionel and hopefully he has an answer. I am leaning toward the idea that I need the breakout boxes because you hook up the green and yellow wires to it, but I want to know for sure before I sink any more money into this. Thanks for the help.
I can't imagine why you'd need the breakout boxes, they don't change the logic of those two status wires.
Sadly, I haven't seen anything happening recently with the LCS system, I was hoping Lionel would keep developing it and expanding it.
The only difference between my setup and yours is you have the breakout boxes. So if the breakout boxes don’t work it has to be a bad CSM2.
Do you only have one CSM2? FWIW, I have four, and one of them was bad, the board looked like a six year old soldered it. I exchanged it.
Unfortunately I only have one. Thanks again for the advice.
If you were to use a 5VDC supply and tickle one of the CSM2 inputs with that, it should display a change in the status of the switch, that will test the CSM2 functionality. It's a simple box really.
You don't happen to have the hot and ground for the power to the CSM reverse, do you? If so, that can cook the CSM2! The common is your track common.
The CSM2 and the DZ2500’s are being powered by 14V on the C posts of my ZW. The track is being powered by the A posts of the same ZW. So track common is the same as the CSM2 and the DZ2500’s. That’s correct isn’t it?
That should work. I just looked at mine as I'm having one switch misbehaving. With the green wire to the CSM2, mine react to any switch change, no matter how it happens. However, I do have one switch that's wired correctly, and the LED's indicate correctly, but it's backwards on the iPad display. I can't correct it's indication no matter what option I choose. I think it's about time to replace another switch machine...
Actually, John, my post implied that I would be happy to be a member of such a team, and perhaps even the project manager! It remains a necessary venture, that Lionel's instruction manuals do not address, and are very deficient in the area of self promotion of the various Legacy/Lion Chief/TMCC to the proper user groups.
@donhradio posted:Actually, John, my post implied that I would be happy to be a member of such a team, and perhaps even the project manager! It remains a necessary venture, that Lionel's instruction manuals do not address, and are very deficient in the area of self promotion of the various Legacy/Lion Chief/TMCC to the proper user groups.
Yep, I see that. It's just that any such endeavor is a significant undertaking, while I like the idea, I'm just not sure something like this will ever happen with a team. Something like the DCS book happened because Barry saw a way to make some money from his knowledge.
John, I found my problem. My wiring was correct, the CSM2 works, and my DZ2500’s are all working. What I had done wrong was configuring the CSM2. I followed the instructions by pressing program on the CSM2, setting the base address, in my case tmcc ID 1 for the first switch, press set, then aux1 for straight then pressed set. Where I went wrong was on the subsequent switches I did the same thing, so basically I kept changing the CSM2 base address. To sync the LCS switch locations I press sw# then aux1or 2 depending what the LCS diagram is showing for that switch then press set. Thanks for all your help.
OK, I have an LCS issue that I have yet to crack. Specifically, I'm using the DZ-2500 switch machines with the CSM2 sensor boxes for detecting switch positions.
For a "normal" configuration switch, that works out fine, they all work like you'd expect. The LCS display on the iPad detects the switch position properly no matter how the switch position is changed. That's great!
I did have to address one issue as to why some of the switches didn't work properly, it turns out the DZ-2500 puts out a position that's dependent on the position of the arm on the switch machine, that makes perfect sense. However, depending on the switch and where the switch machine is mounted, that reverses the polarity of the sensing output lines! OOPS! OK, so you have to use the yellow instead of the green lead from the DZ-2500, then it all works. Problem solved, and those switches all work great now on the LCS iPad display.
Now the problem. On some of the switches, the "out" path of the switch is really the thru route, and the "thru" path is the "out" route. This is not an issue with the DZ-2500, you can swap the sense of the switch in the configuration, all is well, right? Well, it seems there's no way to convince the LCS to properly handle the situation where you reverse the sense of the red and green LED's on the switch machine to accommodate this situation. The result is the LCS display gets all confused about where the switch is, and when you try to change the position on the iPad, you press once and the display changes but the switch doesn't move. Another press and the switch moves, but the indication is incorrect anyway! I tried swapping the sense of the feedback to the CSM2, but that doesn't address the issue. I confess, I'm stumped.
The only way I see to fix this is to actually move the LED's on the switch and not swap the "thru" and "out" sense of the switch. I'm wondering how others using the DZ-2500/CSM2 have solved this LCS issue?
@PRR1644 posted:John, I found my problem. My wiring was correct, the CSM2 works, and my DZ2500’s are all working. What I had done wrong was configuring the CSM2. I followed the instructions by pressing program on the CSM2, setting the base address, in my case tmcc ID 1 for the first switch, press set, then aux1 for straight then pressed set. Where I went wrong was on the subsequent switches I did the same thing, so basically I kept changing the CSM2 base address. To sync the LCS switch locations I press sw# then aux1or 2 depending what the LCS diagram is showing for that switch then press set. Thanks for all your help.
Funny thing, I was going to bring up programming the CSM2, and I thought I might be posting an insult, so I was still thinking about it.
I would not have taken it as an insult. I obviously interpreted the instructions wrong. Thanks again for helping.
Yep, glad you sorted it out. Now, if you can just fix my last issue with my LCS configuration, we'll be even! 
Have you hit program on the CSM2 press sw# and match whatever the position of the switch on the LCS then set. When I matched the position on the LCS it worked. I had been matching the actual position of the switch to aux1or aux2 then set while programming.
@PRR1644 posted:Have you hit program on the CSM2 press sw# and match whatever the position of the switch on the LCS then set. When I matched the position on the LCS it worked. I had been matching the actual position of the switch to aux1or aux2 then set while programming.
Yep, I tried changing the sense with the option, that doesn't do it. The only way I see this working is to swap the LED's, that's going to be a PITA with the DZ-2500. You can't program this with the CSM2 program switch, you only set the base address with that.
Isn't there an option with the DZ2500's to change the green to red and vice versa?
Yep, that's how I got them looking right in the first place not considering LCS operation. However, that doesn't do anything about the sensing, so the LCS code thinks the switch is wrong. It's the swapping of the thru and out routes that confuses them. That's the problem that I'm trying to fix. Recent conversations here got me to wiring the rest of the switches to get the LCS app fully functional, that's when I discovered the problem with those switches.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Yep, glad you sorted it out. Now, if you can just fix my last issue with my LCS configuration, we'll be even!
Not sure if this is your issue...
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