The Lionel 2016 Reading T1's--FINALLY!!

My thought is with the AFT rendition. The MTH model has the golden eagle on top of the headlight. The Lionel version doesn't show it. for the $$ I think Lionel should get the graphics and details correct... esp when we know the tooling is done on this model and adding extra details to better the model is not much in cutting into profits.

From the angle of the picture and its small size in the catalogue, you can barely make out the bell.  The eagle which is slightly smaller and the angle of the engine, it would be difficult to distinguish.  I am confident Lionel will do a good job and come through for you.  

All the best.

I have been wanting Legacy AFT models of both the T1 and the 4449 for a long time (thanks Lionel! ).  Maybe next year they can do the AFT T&P 610 and complete the roster...

(images from the American Freedom Train home page).

It would also give Texas & Pacific fans a chance to get the 610 in its own decoration and perhaps some additional road numbers.

A very happy Andy

Curve posted:

"esp when we know the tooling is done on this model and adding extra details to better the model is not much in cutting into profits."

This is inaccurate information. The tooling is NOT done. 

Charlie

Andy,

I have requested a Texas & Pacific 610 for a long time. The as delivered with its gray/green boiler and other items, red cab roof and yellow numbers was a very attractive train. I would buy several if they would do it. I might even go a American freedom version. 

I was really excited for the t'1s.  Been hoping for a legacy version.   Chessie steam special has been on my wish list for along time.   I just hope we see the passengers cars to match the chessie t1 in vol2 or in 2017

I don't believe Lionel's 2016 T-1 issue will be based on the 1989 tooling developed in conjunction with Mike Wolf.  No new locos have been issued from that tooling, nor from the L-3a Mohawk which was tooled the following year under similar circumstances.  I haven't ever seen anything definitive about what happened to that tooling, or why it wasn't reused.

The T-1 was groundbreaking at the time, probably responsible for a lot of hard-core hobbyists tearing out their O31 and building new layouts to accommodate it.  However, the level of detail is very sparse by modern standards.  Honestly for the price I'm hoping for something on par with the Milwaukee 261, with a separately-formed casting to complete the curved underside of the boiler.  We'll see!

Ted Sowirka posted:

I don't believe Lionel's 2016 T-1 issue will be based on the 1989 tooling developed in conjunction with Mike Wolf.  No new locos have been issued from that tooling, nor from the L-3a Mohawk which was tooled the following year under similar circumstances.  I haven't ever seen anything definitive about what happened to that tooling, or why it wasn't reused.

 

Not sure what you mean about the L-3a tooling, as several engines came from it including the T&P Sears engine.

Yes Palallin, you're right about the Sears/T&P Mohawk.  But that one was offered so soon after the original NYC version, it may have been made during the initial production run.  A few years later Lionel offered the 18064 with its elephant ears and TMCC.  It looks like the same boiler casting, but that version had magnetraction, and none of the part numbers on Lionelsupport.com bear an 8009 designation.  So unless someone from Lionel weighs in, we can't be sure.  For a while in the mid-90s, rumors circulated that ownership of the T-1 and Mohawk tooling was in dispute. 

By the time Lionel offered the Southern Mikado (one of its first "premium" locos with a can motor) and the Scale Turbine, Lionel had obviously closed any loopholes with their subcontractors / Korean builders, because that tooling has indeed been reused several times.  Another interesting facet of O-gauge history!

Interesting!

Ted Sowirka posted:

I don't believe Lionel's 2016 T-1 issue will be based on the 1989 tooling developed in conjunction with Mike Wolf.  No new locos have been issued from that tooling, nor from the L-3a Mohawk which was tooled the following year under similar circumstances.  I haven't ever seen anything definitive about what happened to that tooling, or why it wasn't reused.

Ted Sowirka posted:

Yes Palallin, you're right about the Sears/T&P Mohawk.  But that one was offered so soon after the original NYC version, it may have been made during the initial production run.  A few years later Lionel offered the 18064 with its elephant ears and TMCC.  It looks like the same boiler casting, but that version had magnetraction, and none of the part numbers on Lionelsupport.com bear an 8009 designation.  So unless someone from Lionel weighs in, we can't be sure.  For a while in the mid-90s, rumors circulated that ownership of the T-1 and Mohawk tooling was in dispute. 

By the time Lionel offered the Southern Mikado (one of its first "premium" locos with a can motor) and the Scale Turbine, Lionel had obviously closed any loopholes with their subcontractors / Korean builders, because that tooling has indeed been reused several times.  Another interesting facet of O-gauge history!

Are you suggesting that the Sears T&P 4-8-2 was produced as part of the 18009 NYC Mohawk production run -- about 20 months earlier?! If so, that is not how this industry works.

There were no disputes regarding the tooling ownership of the T-1, L-3 Mohawk, S-2 Turbine, Mikado, 3-Truck Shay, etc.

The 18064 was substantially made with the tooling for the 18009. The reason for the different root part numbers has to do with the fact that the 18009 was a subcontracted item (Samhongsa) produced as a complete unit, versus the 18064 which was a manufactured item. 

There weren't any critical reasons to prevent the Reading T-1 from being re-issued, and in fact the tooling was repatriated and then tested in the later 1990's. Low demand however (a lot were made in 1989, and the follow-up Chessie was particularly overproduced), along with the sparseness of detail, kept it as a low priority. Also there was some tinkering involving the tender tooling for a stillborn project in the 1990's that would have required work to make the original T-1 tender again, but it wasn't anything that money couldn't fix.

TRW

The people at Lionel said on the Notch 6 podcast that this will NOT be using the same tooling from the original 1989-91 runs. The tooling to make the new versions will be all new to meet the criteria of high detail, because honestly at $1700 we do deserve the improvements. And by the looks of how they're hyping it up in the catalog alongside the eventual return of the real 2100 T-1, they're just as interested in doing a good job as we are.

With Lionel's announcement of new tooling, it's a great sign for all the hobbyist who've been waiting on some new, fresh, locomotives that have not been produced in the past.  I do believe the 'page has turned' and we'll see some new stuff, not at the rate we saw before, but a few new offerings here and there.  I'm very happy to see the T-1 offered, though not my road and won't be ordering one, I'm excited for you guys who want it and it may signal the beginning of more new stuff down the road. 

More good news: three days ago the Reading & Northern issued a press release that 2102 will be restored. Click here

Reading Steam Guru and Wowak painted and detailed my Lionel Reading T-1 (1989; 18006) as 2124 in her Iron Horse Rambles paint scheme. Jeff of J. D. S. Limited Productions installed a fan-driven smoke unit and (while he was in there) a LED headlight. She runs like a Hamilton watch.

I'm a bit surprised that this loco is being produced, if, indeed, the tooling is "all new". The market got really saturated, and the early Lionels can still be found for low prices (I'm looking for one for a project chassis), and MTH has done a modern one. Some potential buyers who are more interested in looks than performance will stay happy with their early versions.

Of course, the old one had a Pullmor (like the L-3a) and the new one has all the New and Fancy stuff, so much of the internal tooling had to change, anyway.

Now, I don't have any info on these locos, and I'm just rambling, and I'm not going to buy one. However, I hope that it is truly new, top to bottom, as this would be a good sign (as stated above) for some new, big steamers.

NYC K-5 Pacific; new NYC L3a, and so on...a whole 'nuther thread... 

The 1989 Lionel T-1 were always good dependable runners. I regret selling mine. 

ReadingFan posted:

More good news: three days ago the Reading & Northern issued a press release that 2102 will be restored. Click here

Reading Steam Guru and Wowak painted and detailed my Lionel Reading T-1 (1989; 18006) as 2124 in her Iron Horse Rambles paint scheme. Jeff of J. D. S. Limited Productions installed a fan-driven smoke unit and (while he was in there) a LED headlight. She runs like a Hamilton watch.

Glad to hear that the Reading T-1 will be restored. I like that engine very much and have 2 Reading T-1's now for my newly in-construction layout.

Lee Fritz

jeremy ferrell posted:

I was really excited for the t'1s.  Been hoping for a legacy version.   Chessie steam special has been on my wish list for along time.   I just hope we see the passengers cars to match the chessie t1 in vol2 or in 2017

The Chessie T-1 was a leased or rented Reading T-1 painted in Chessie colors for the American Freedom train. Chessie never built an actual T-1.

Lee Fritz

I really like the Chessie T-1. Remember the day I would ride my bike to town to see that one come through.

This is good news for us Reading RR fans. The Reading Lines ran through some beautiful country in eastern PA, areas that I know like to travel on my motorcycle. I am a little apprehensive about the price and will be interested to see what the actual pre-order prices come in at, that will likely be the determining factor on whether to pre-order one or not.

Do I remember right that the Reading built the T1's out of old consolidations in their own shops, and that they pulled both freight and passenger consists? Anyone know the year and the significance of the various road numbers Lionel is offering?

I believe those are the numbers that still exist and were a part of the 'Reading Ramblers".  Robert Gottschall, Jr. did an outstanding job collecting information on EVERY T-1 made in his book, The Reading Railroad's T-1 Class STeam Locomotives 1944-1958, published by Reading Transportation Museum, 2008.  There are documents involving letters, photos of equipment that failed, photos of crashes, and some BEAUTIFUL photos in color!  Highly recommended! 

And if you like that book you have to get this video.... Put your Reading hat on!

I have the book, and the video JDaddy posted about is on my wish list.  Allow me to also recommend the Sunday River videos about the Reading T-1s.  They have much footage of the Reading Rail Rambles (a series of main-line excursions that took place after the end of steam on the Reading.)  Four different T-1s were used at various times.  The videos feature Doubleheaded T-1s chugging through the Pennsylvania countryside ablaze with fall color, and occasionally assisted by now-classic diesels.  The last ramble departed Baltimore on a frigid day in 1972 and was filmed in part from a helicopter!  The videos are awesome, and i'm sure the fond memories conjured up from these excursions are a big part of the reason why Lionel and MTH have produced T-1s in O scale.

J Daddy posted:

I really like the Chessie T-1. Remember the day I would ride my bike to town to see that one come through.

im somewhat color blind but I've always wondered is the chess t-1 really dark blue or black

Dark Blue is correct. They used Chessie System colors.

Chris

LVHR

I have a different video with one of the Reading T-1's on a place Sandpatch, the video is called "Stomping on Sandpatch." Not sure who made it but I can check my DVD catalog soon and find out. Also have a VHS video from 1993 with steam engines in it and one of Reading's T-1's is there too.

Lee Fritz

J Daddy posted:

I really like the Chessie T-1. Remember the day I would ride my bike to town to see that one come through.

Looks like Chessie used an auxiliary water tender on that train because of water towers not in use any longer.

Lee Fritz

Great news and thanks for posting.

The day I received my original Lionel Chessie T-1, I knew I was dealing with an entirely different kind of locomotive.  It's a work of art!

This new one looks to be just as special, and I'm sure it will be stunning.  A conventional version at around half the price would have been doable, but I'll have to settle for Youtube videos when this one hits the streets.

Another great video of the Chessie T1 can be seen here....

phillyreading posted:

J Daddy posted:

I really like the Chessie T-1. Remember the day I would ride my bike to town to see that one come through.

Looks like Chessie used an auxiliary water tender on that train because of water towers not in use any longer.

Lee Fritz

Lee - it did.  The auxiliary tender came from a NYC Mohawk.  I was able to get one without the engine and I painted it to match my MTH version (which I will be selling once I get the Lionel version in).  I just hope the Lionel CSS has the eagle and the tender has the boxes between the trucks as shown above (and not in the catalog).

Here are picks of my auxiliary tender:

Lessee here. A new Lionel T-1 for $1700 or an old one for $300-$400. There is so much one could do to the old one for the $1000+ difference. Go back and look at Wowak's thread for inspiration.

Well I've been tempted by MTH with the PS3 Version, now Lionel!!!  Hurt me!!!  lol...  I have come to love the Reading T-1 as much as the Western Maryland I-2 and C&O T-1.  I just wish the funding was there to make it happen! {It will be on my 'wish list'!}  It should be a beauty!

For all those who can, Enjoy!!!

C&O Allie,

You might have my attention... lol... Is this the MTH PS2 Version you have??? Can't remember...  Beautiful job on the auxiliary tender!!!  I don't remember seeing that in past posts.... maybe I just missed it...

C&O Allie posted:

phillyreading posted:

J Daddy posted:

I really like the Chessie T-1. Remember the day I would ride my bike to town to see that one come through.

Looks like Chessie used an auxiliary water tender on that train because of water towers not in use any longer.

Lee Fritz

Lee - it did.  The auxiliary tender came from a NYC Mohawk.  I was able to get one without the engine and I painted it to match my MTH version (which I will be selling once I get the Lionel version in).  I just hope the Lionel CSS has the eagle and the tender has the boxes between the trucks as shown above (and not in the catalog).

Here are picks of my auxiliary tender:

That aux tender is excellent.  I hope with the success of the up water tenders, lionel might produce these in the future.   Dreaming i know but in a perfect world they'll make the 614 also along with a safety express aux tender, and a set of chessie 21inch passenger cars that could be used with both locomotives as I believe the passenger consist were similar for both trains.  The aux tenders are a long shot but I  think we'll see the passenger cars.  

Ted Sowirka posted:

I don't believe Lionel's 2016 T-1 issue will be based on the 1989 tooling developed in conjunction with Mike Wolf.  No new locos have been issued from that tooling, nor from the L-3a Mohawk which was tooled the following year under similar circumstances.  I haven't ever seen anything definitive about what happened to that tooling, or why it wasn't reused.

I'm no expert on this, but those 1989 T-1s (along with the Mohawk, Southern Mikado, Frisco Mikado, Sears T&P steamer, and Rio Grande PAs - those I recall)  were made for Lionel by Samhongsa in Korea, with whom Mike Wolfe had a business relationship, and Lionel had the engines done using this relationship of Wolfe with Samhongsa. I think the story was that Samhongsa, when approached by Lionel, directed them to Wolf to do the liaison with them. I don't know who owned the tooling, other than Samhongsa, which went out of the train business years ago, but I don't think Lionel ever did. I'm not positive, though. But I don't think any engines from those molds every reappeared from Lionel. I know that maybe 10 years ago Lionel made some scale TMCC Mikados (I think three of them), and they were not the Samhongsa molds.

According to the catalog its "New Tooling", " Today the American Steam Railroad Foundation is embarking on a program to bring 2100 back to service yet again. Lionel has worked extensively with the organization to measure and document the T1 to bring you the most accurate model possible".

In addition, it is suppose to have a Kinematic drawbar, which Lionel has only been able to add to "all new" locos like the S3. Anything using "existing tooling" has no provisions for this new drawbar.

This new one "should" make the '89 version look like a postwar piece.

Of course there is that whole disclaimer thing, just in case they decide to merely add a couple rivets or handrails to the "89 tooling

Henry J. posted:

Well I've been tempted by MTH with the PS3 Version, now Lionel!!!  Hurt me!!!  lol...  I have come to love the Reading T-1 as much as the Western Maryland I-2 and C&O T-1.  I just wish the funding was there to make it happen! {It will be on my 'wish list'!}  It should be a beauty!

For all those who can, Enjoy!!!

 

C&O Allie,

You might have my attention... lol... Is this the MTH PS2 Version you have??? Can't remember...  Beautiful job on the auxiliary tender!!!  I don't remember seeing that in past posts.... maybe I just missed it...

Henry,

Yes, this is the MTH PS2 version.  I did post about the Auxiliary Tender (this is Version 3) - here is the link.

Here is a video of my 1990s Lionel Consist and my MTH Consist.  I've since added several more cars to the MTH version.

phillyreading posted:

jeremy ferrell posted:

I was really excited for the t'1s.  Been hoping for a legacy version.   Chessie steam special has been on my wish list for along time.   I just hope we see the passengers cars to match the chessie t1 in vol2 or in 2017

The Chessie T-1 was a leased or rented Reading T-1 painted in Chessie colors for the American Freedom train. Chessie never built an actual T-1.

Lee Fritz

I think Ross Roland owned the locomotive when it was used for the chessie steam special or he acquired it after CSS service.   I know he owned it when it was burned in the b&o round house fire and that's how he acquired the 614

Jeremy,  Mr. Rowland owned the Reading 2101 during the AFT and CSS time line.

C&O Allie, thanks for the link!