the new 675 tooling

My thought is wait until one shows up and someone does a teardown so we know what the mechanics are like.

I'm not giving Lionel just a blanket pass on a new design. They have to earn it from now on out.

@Grampstrains posted:

I am interested in the separate sale Pennsylvania.  I can't tell for sure if it's dark green or black.  I hope green.  I also love the disc wheels.

i like that one too as well as the Army one. honestly wish i could get all 3 but i will have to do the set unless my godparents say yes to just an engine

What ^^Vernon said.  Which motor, gearbox, gear ratio, etc.?  My *guess* (and perhaps a best-case scenario) is that Lionel will adapt the 6-wheel chassis from its LionChief Plus Pacific and Hudson into a newly-tooled 675 boiler shell.

We know that it won't have LC+ 2.0 circuitry.  But the MSRP is low enough that I fear they will also cheapen the mechanicals.  There's no mention of a flywheel in the catalog description.  The photos are probably custom-painted postwar models or computer-generated images.  Until it's made, or Lionel reveals a prototype in a future Ryan and Dave show, it's just speculation.

I ordered a PRR green version. I remember my Dad getting his 675 at the Greenburg show in Philly when I was little. Couldn't resist unboxing a fresh one. I hope it has the PRR three chime whistle on the sound card. I'd also love a future one in Reading paint. I hope this is a sign of future postwar steam toolings in the LC line. For instance, the 2065 tooling.

I hope it uses original tooling,  The new tool note in the catalog appears to refer to the changes in the drivetrain and electronics.  Many of Lionel's PW tools are around and still used.

@Mike W. posted:

I hope it uses original tooling,  The new tool note in the catalog appears to refer to the changes in the drivetrain and electronics.  Many of Lionel's PW tools are around and still used.

I don't think the original tooling exists for the 675.... as Lionel put pieces of the tooling in the Bethlehem Steel set 6-21758 back in the late 90's.

@Mike W. posted:

I hope it uses original tooling,  The new tool note in the catalog appears to refer to the changes in the drivetrain and electronics.  Many of Lionel's PW tools are around and still used.

Lionel has stated that it is all new tooling.  The postwar tooling is not being reused for this.

Stu

I'd like to get one - either the PRR version to run w/ my MPC era baby Madison cars or the 675 version, even though I have 3 originals which are all better made than the new one.   I am also going to wait and see what it looks like before giving Lionel my money.  With the way the quality and colors have been in recent years, I refuse to preorder anything and wait till I see it with my own eyes.

@Mike W. posted:

I hope it uses original tooling,...   ...Many of Lionel's PW tools are around and still used.

The original tooling was worn out after it was used for plastic castings back in 80-81 for the 1050 New Englander set, and then cut up as a load for flatcars, so this will be all new.

100% new tooling for the loco.

The gearbox design is based off the Berk Jr/ Polar LionChief loco.

@Dave Olson posted:

100% new tooling for the loco.

The gearbox design is based off the Berk Jr/ Polar LionChief loco.

OK, but gearing wise, not asking for the exact ratio (would be a nice bonus) but given the diameter difference between original 675 drivers and say a Berk Jr, I would hope it's also modified? In other words- same relative gearing per inch of travel, opposed to same gearing taller wheels scenario?

And so a vertical can motor, with integrated worm gear, interfacing to the axle worm wheel.

Again, just trying to understand to avoid known less than ideal previous designs- like say the large wheeled and small motored Hogwarts as an example.

@Dave Olson posted:

100% new tooling for the loco.

The gearbox design is based off the Berk Jr/ Polar LionChief loco.

the big question for me is will this train be ready by christmas

i don't wanna wait 2 years though like how the tier 4 and dash 8 took a long time

@Dave Olson posted:

100% new tooling for the loco.

The gearbox design is based off the Berk Jr/ Polar LionChief loco.

Dave, I hope you give a looksee at the metal quality of the motor worm. They are stripping fairly easily in the PE/Berk Jr.

A separate sale LC Plus 2.0 would sell.  Especially if the tender-drawbar connection is tightened up.  

Jon

I agree wholeheartedly with Vernon's observations about changing the worm wheel to match the larger driving wheel size.  Since the original 675 had 1 3/8" wheels, to keep speeds in the same range as the Berk Jr., a larger worm wheel on the axle would be needed.  And yes, it would be nice to know the exact gear ratio.

Something to think about:  The diamter of the worm wheel determines the length of the lever arm for the worm.  A larger one greatly increases pull-in torque and promotes smoother starts, that's one of the things that makes the design of Lionel's 700-series Hudsons so good.  Speed control electronics (which this loco won't have) can do a lot.  But the laws of physics still apply!

@Ted S posted:

Something to think about:  The diamter of the worm wheel determines the length of the lever arm for the worm.  A larger one greatly increases pull-in torque and promotes smoother starts, that's one of the things that makes the design of Lionel's 700-series Hudsons so good.

Isn’t pull-in torque an aspect of synchronous and stepper motors?

Yes it is, and I might not have used the term 100% correctly.  What I'm referring to is the starting torque available at zero RPM.  Think about breaking loose a stuck bolt with a breaker bar, or trying to start an airplane engine by pulling down on the end of the propeller.  Maybe a better term would be starting torque, or "locked rotor torque."

Once the motor is turning, reduction gears in any form will multiply RPMs and rotating torque.  But breaking away from a stall condition (such as starting a long train with the slack stretched) is easier and more gradual with a larger worm wheel because of that long lever arm.  (It's also easier with ANY typical worm gear compared to spur gears, because the torque required is a function of the tangent(?) of the lead angle of the worm.  Sorry, I'm a little rusty with this stuff!!

That first power pulse (i.e., the attraction of one pole of the armature) produces a fractional revolution of the motor shaft, which in turn picks up a fraction of a tooth on the worm wheel.  The effort required to overcome a locked rotor condition isn't only determined by the gear ratio.  The size of the worm wheel and the lead angle of the worm are also important.  Someday I would love to do an experiment comparing the Lionel 773, an MTH Premier Hudson, and a similarly-geared 3rd Rail steam loco to demonstrate the subtle effects of these design factors.  Some people don't like seeing a big, clunky gearbox above the drivers.  But for smooth, efficient operation my pick of that trio would be the 773!  For now, I just hope Lionel sorts out its materials and quality issues before the "soft" worm gears Vernon found in the P.E. Berk end up in the new 675!!

Understood all new tooling for the 675,  But as far as the original...I may be wrong but don't think one uses the same tools for diecast and plastic castings.  Also they may have chopped the old tool up but I believe there is a master tool and then multiple production tools.  Doubt they destroyed the master.

I only flip through the catalog cuz I'm not at a stage where I'll be buying things, I was just browsing but I entirely missed the 675. In fact when I search the catalog index for "675" it doesn't come up - but I found it, and it looks like fun! I'm currently rebuilding my grandfather's old 675. The e unit was sometimes sticky/fidgety and judging from the conditions of the wheels gears and armature... I really must have LOVED oiling engines when I was young 🤓😉😂