The owners of Bessemer 643 are looking for a new home for her.

I don't remember writing: Its just sitting there already to go" Just need to fire her up "

A stupid question but if the Owner is looking for a new home for this loco, wouldn't he go back and contact those who originally contacted him to save the loco way back when?

On the top of my list would be Jerry Jacobsen and AOSR for sure! And I am sure many of you already e-mailed Jerry on his AOSR website about it anyway if he didn't already know about it.

Even if she was ready to fire up and go, the FRA would have a lot of issues with you doing so, due to time of the flues and you'd still have to do the rebuild to get her under steam again.

Nobody will deal with Mr. Campbell anymore. The 643 has been a lost cause for decades do to his bull-headedness.

After reading all this.  Why would they be looking for a new home if the owner will not part with the engine. If he is looking to find money to move it, but not do the right thing and restore or give the engine up to someone else who would care. What's the point? I don't feel sorry for him, after all he dug his own grave at that engines expense.. Maybe he thinks that since UP acquired Big Boy, another deep pocket company will do the same with his.  It reminds me of a You Tube video I saw of a guy who owned about 50 various PCC cars and a complete six car set of the CTA 6000 series cars, sitting in a forest in NC. Instead of giving them up he rather sit on them and watch them rust away. All that history. 

With where it is and the condition it is in the best the owners could do is to bring the torches in and scrap it. Haul out the pieces to the grave yard. 

Nobody in their right mind will pay to have it moved, time to move on. He had his chances to save it but that time has passed. 

From a business point of view, no inoperable steam locomotive is ever worth anything beyond its scrap value. It's X number of tons times the current value of scrap...period.

As a business person looking at purchasing something like this, you have to know that if everything goes totally sour, or the locomotive is irreparably damaged in transit, you can always scrap it and get your money back. There is zero value in "historical fabric" and other equally nebulous nonsense as it pertains to this particular locomotive.

That may seem cold and heartless, but restoring and operating a steam locomotive is a business and has to be looked at that way. Even a multimillionaire like Jerry Jacobson is not going to throw money away by overpaying for this essentially worthless piece of scrap. JJJ's offers (he has made more than one attempt to purchase the 643) were slightly above scrap value at the time, and those offers were rejected.

You can see how well that has worked out.

I'm not sure it's a lost cause but it would take deep pockets to make any headway.  Too bad.

Yes, sort of the same situation as the East Broad Top RR. A true gem.

I never wrote that . That's why I made the comment. Obviously It would not ready to go. I may have had head banged around a few times jumping out of perfectly good aircraft( C130s) no not that dumb even without see the pics. The face book page didn't show the current pics. Having seen the pics now. This guy needs to be hung. What stupidity. Must be a Marine. 

I'm sure you're kidding....for the most part....but there are Marines, their families, and their friends on this Forum who probably didn't appreciate your last line.  Failing to capitalize the "M" was further rubbing salt in the wound. 

You right I was kidding. I forgot the this  .  My kids interrupted me while I was typing.

The Smiley Face makes all the difference in the world.  Many thanks!

Maybe I should have been more specific. I wasn't saying you'd written that, I was addressing the point even if you'd had (or anyone else did, for that matter), as I've heard that a few times recently from people who clearly don't know how a steam locomotive operates.

Really. So, why is, say, a 1948 Tucker automobile worth well into seven-figures, whether it runs or not? Or a partially-destroyed B-17 that can't possibly fly in its current condition?

How about parts from a locomotive, then? They can't operate wholly on their own, so why can't I buy a builder's plate or headlight from a steam locomotive for a few bucks? It's all only worth the scrap value, right?

You are beating a dead horse here! 

Because you're looking at it from a sentimental collector viewpoint, not a scrapyard dealer who buys metal by the truckload.

Rusty

So, why is, say, a 1948 Tucker automobile worth well into seven-figures, whether it runs or not?

Because there are more people with millions of dollars, a desire for a rare automobile and a spare spot in a garage then there are Tuckers.

How about parts from a locomotive, then? They can't operate wholly on their own, so why can't I buy a builder's plate or headlight from a steam locomotive for a few bucks?

Because there are more people with $100, a desire for a builders plate and a place on a wall or mantle then there are builders plates.

There is not a large supply of people with millions, a desire for a locomotive and an empty stall in a roundhouse to fill. 

Anyone with an empty space in an engine house has many locomotives to choose from to fill it, plus all the other money making uses for 10,000 square feet of indoor space.  So the market for used locomotives peaks at scrap value.  The bottom is scrap value minus transportation costs which, in some cases, could mean the owner pays to make it go away.

Comparing classic automobiles with an inoperable steam locomotive is perhaps the best "apples and oranges" example I have ever seen! Wow.

The reason classic cars have value is because they are millions of people who are willing to spend hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars to acquire them. It is a solid, well-known market with well established standards for quality and value.

There is no such market for a 250-ton, rusting hunk of metal of no particular historical value sitting virtually immovable in a field in Pittsburgh.

Pictures as of last year:

Rich is right about the cost and difficulty. I had trouble driving around the streets in an average-size car. The engine almost needs an Army troop helicopter to lift it out of the predicament she's in.

I do think that using crowdsourcing, fundraising, and Mr. Jacobson, the money could be raised to make her run and move her, but the problem is the location and holder of the deed, as was discussed.

Mission Impossible. First, the guy who owns it would rather be a junk collector so he won't sell it , like the guys with "collectible" cars rotting away in the backyard. The only hope a all, if you could get it would be to dismantle the thing and put it on a river barge. All it would take would be tons of $$ and guts.  Is there still a BL& steamer in Greenville, Pa. ??There was at one time-in the park.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D3O_jyslyk

Sad to think he had a good offer and track to move it out on and chose to leave it there to rot. I hope he ends up living in it some day.

I stumbled across a facebook page where someone claims to be in touch with the owner of 643. Seems as there are no plans, discussions or negotiations going on with anyone to have the engine moved anywhere. Look for yourself: https://www.facebook.com/BLE643

I'm inclined to believe that for pretty obvious historical reasons.

That got me wondering, I swear I saw photos of this engine being steamed up not too terribly long ago and have heard through the years it moved back and forth on that property and that was it. When exactly was that?

A key quote from that Facebook page:

"I spoke to Glenn. He told me yes he was approached by the city but has not spoken more to them about the approach to obtain 643."

In other words, more smoke and mirrors with no substance.

The UP Big Boy will run before this locomotive moves anywhere. And I sure ain't holding by breath for the 4014 to run any time soon.

It has no value now, because it can't be moved on it's own wheels like it COULD have been when Jerry was trying to get it.  If what Rich says is true, and I havew NO reason to doubt him, it might not even be POSSIBLE to move it by truck. What is the situation with the property it currently sits on?  Could something be done with it there?  Otherwise, the only saving grace may be that with the massive slide in scrap prices lately, it might be more expensive to cut it up and haul it than it's worth.  Last fall I was getting $220.00 a ton for sheet scrap, which is OK, but down quite a bit from the high a few years ago.  Last week I got $104.00 a ton for the same scrap.  

I think he likes the attention it brings. Oh well it is his .

I had read this too which had led to my post. From what it sounds There seams to be no takers.  I wonder why. Could it be the estimate cost of moving and restoring the  engine that might be killing this along with what he is asking for. Understand even if its a donation, there are costs involved. 

Until today sitting in the Denver Airport I never knew this steam engine existed.

Whether it can be moved on its own wheels or not has nothing to do with its value. At $104 per ton scrap price today, it is worth $47,163. That is the ONLY yardstick you can use to assess its value. It has no added historical value in dollars and cents. Even when scrap was 250 a ton, it was worth $113,373, a far cry from the million-plus dollar asking price.

Add to that these facts:

• It will take more than $1 million to make this thing run again. All the work that was done on it years ago now counts for nothing. Too much time has passed. It has to undergo the full CFR230 boiler assessment routine.
• Once you're done, where are you going to run to earn back that money? It is WAY to heavy to run on Class 1 or 2 track typical of many regionals and short lines.
• Total weight of the engine and tender is 906,990 pounds. To put that in context, that is 104,000 pounds HEAVIER than the 765 (802,500 pounds) with only one more axle than 765! The total weight and axle loadings on that monster would scare any regional or short line bridge engineer to death.
• It is a ponderous, slow speed drag freight engine that has likely never been over 30 mph in its life.

This locomotive is not a good excursion engine candidate. It's way too big, heavy and slow for that kind of work.

This topic is as interesting as it is sad.  Growing up in Pittsburgh, I didn't even know the 643 existed until now.  

I would LOVE to have PRR 6171 rusting away ..anywhere!   There are some good tales surrounding this locomotive after the museum turned her down. We all lost out on this one because of the lack of communication that existed within the fan base back then.  Even today most SPFs have NO clue that a Big Jay came close to being saved!

Thanks Rich,

Just did a little reading on CFR 230. Interesting stuff. Also found a few 643 cab pics. I see what you mean.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/...s/72157624211808750/

Plus, one can fit a classic car in his garage and it wouldn't cost a quarter ton of money moving it.

Rusty

Well, my point was that IF it could have been obtained for a small fee, or Mr. Campbell was willing to donate it, AND when it could have been moved by rail, (meaning when it was in good rolling condition, the siding was still connected AND CSX would have been willing to move it) then it was a doable deal, givng it SOME value, (maybe not monetary, but not everything saved is for financial gain) even if just as a static display.  NOW, the costs to move it, if even possible, make it a nearly impossible deal, meaning it has no value.  Are you telling me that if Jerry could obtain it today just for the cost of towing it to his facility, (assuming no other large costs involved) he wouldn't take it just to save it from the torch?

Too many IFs. 

Sometimes it's best to walk away.

Rusty

Nope you didn't but the article did...

Backhead clutter or not, she is STILL a beauty.  She had a big hand in building a nation.  That alone deserves some respect!

Dave