The owners of Bessemer 643 are looking for a new home for her.

I'm not a mind reader so I have no idea what JJJ would do. What I DO know is that he made multiple attempts to purchase this locomotive and all his offers were refused.

To see what obstacles moving this by truck would impose, CLICK HERE to see a Bing.com map of where it is currently located. When you get to that map, start zooming out and take a look at the nearby streets. Getting it out of there by truck will be almost impossible. It has to go UNDER the McKees Rocks Bridge. The locomotive is somewhere around 16 feet tall. Add the height of the lowboy trailer or other rigging and that will add another foot. Is there 17 feet of overhead clearance under that bridge? I don't know, but I'll bet there is not. Then there is the 120 degree turn to get it off of Munson Avenue and on to George Street, where you can reach the McKees Rocks Bridge. There are utility poles and wires in the way on that corner that would have to come down. And all this is within the first half mile of the move!

Remember that this locomotive is not a good excursion engine candidate...it's too heavy. The best we can hope for is that it gets stuffed and mounted somewhere where people can look at it.

Since it can no longer be "towed", since CSX took the track connection out, how would JJJ get the darned thing to his Age of Steam facility? If if Mr. Campbell would donate the thing to JJJ, I would still be surprised if Jerry would waste that much money on a heavy haul move (including all the highway permits involved) all the way to his place in Ohio.

I remember reading a long time ago that it wasn't a good candidate for restoring. JJJ is no fool and there are better ways to spend your $$$  with some sort of payback. About a year ago, Sewickly, Pa. had a little steel industry Porter in their park and the town decided to get rid of it. JJJ picked it up and saved it. Of course, it didn't weigh quite as much as 643.

Which was my point.  Jerry knew what it was, and yet he still wanted it, and was willing to pay at least SOME money for it, and would have had to spent a good deal more to move it and at least cosmetically restore it,  giving it SOME value.  If the same deal were possible now, it's hard to imagine he wouldn't take it, if for no other reason than just to save it from the torch.  Since the circumstances have changed and it is no longer possible to just roll it it Ohio, it likely has nothing BUT scrap value, and right now that isn't much.  I think we're in agreement here, we're just looking at it in different ways.  I certainly don't think that any and all steam locomotives are good candidates for a return to operating status, but I hate to see ANY of them that are left go to scrap, especially ones that are rare, even if not particularily good.  In this case though, due to TERRIBLE decisions made by the owner, there is probably no alternative left.  Kelly Lynch made a good point to me about never trying to become bigger than the locomotive, or the organization behind it.  It my opinion, this is what Mr. Campbell did, he put himself before the engine, and the engine pays the price.

Of course he would NOT under the current situation.  My point was IF he could still aquire it under the same circumstances as when he originally tried.

I wonder what the S-2 and aux water tender are going for?

It's clearly apparent the best solution for this engine is to be displayed in its current location with possibly some weather protection in its current location.

Hope the owner realizes that soon.

I wonder how the property owner would feel about that?

I'll ask this again, when did 643 run last time when it was still stored there? I assume it was only fired up a few times and maybe run back and forth on that property.

Can someone familiar with this let the rest of us know when she ran last?

Really good if the city would make a park out of it. Begs the question. Why not throw a roof over it and make it a tourist attraction...
now its worth more than scrap...

Actually, it was in a "building", however the "building", or what ever you want to call the structure, eventually collapsed around the 643 some years ago. In fact, look at some of the photos and all the "scrap wood" lying on the ground, on both sides of the engine. Also, the location is reportedly not a "real nice neighborhood" anyway.

The 643 never ran anywhere. As I recall it was steamed up once without the valves in it, just to confirm the status of the boiler. I don't recall when that was, but it was a LONG time ago...before CFR 230 was in effect.

Yes, there was a storm and the "Engine house / ware house" collapsed around it.

Location may indeed benefit with a landmark upgrade...

Hmm. All these years, I'd heard the owner steamed it up once (or twice) and moved it back and forth on that property. Seems kind of odd to go to that much trouble and then not even try to move it an inch.

I'm not saying you're wrong, as I really don't have a clue either way, just seems very odd to me that any owner wouldn't even think of moving it at that point. For me, the temptation would have been way too much to fight!

But then again, given the very odd history of 643, I'm willing to accept almost anything at this point...

Rich, I may be wrong, but I believe it was in 1988 when they test fired the boiler, I left the B&O(CSXT) in 1989, and never looked back... P51, that was at the old B&O backshop, in Glenwood/Pittsburgh Pa. right off of Second Ave. near the old J&L steel mill, and it never ran on it's own! Rich I think it still didn't have new pistons made, as the railroad(B&LE) had them cut so as not to be able to use the engine! Hope this helps!

Here are some shots in its better years...

Okay, now that makes sense if it didn't have working pistons. I knew I'd seen photos of it under steam way in the past, but didn't know much more than that and a lot of rumors/stories I'd heard in the last few years.

Good to hear it from someone who really knows what happened, thanks!

Old Uncle Al, your memory is better than mine! I had forgotten that the B&LE cut the piston rods so they could move it. Obviously they weren't too concerned about running it again!

If I remember correctly, Mr. Campbell contracted Gary Bensman to have new piston rods, or new pistons, or new piston rings made and installed. Eventually the 643 was supposedly "moveable", by then there was no place to go with it. You might check with Gary someday, and see if he remembers more details about the mess with 643.

THERE it is! Thanks Rich, I was looking on the wrong side of the tracks

Oh, it's a pig of a job. I can see some old brick sewer waiting to give way under an axle.

I think this one is a walk-away and keep walking. I would rather 3-d scan the locomotive and 3-d print it somewhere else. 

If you back out enough, the image defaults to a much older sat shot, one which includes the building it was housed in. How odd!

Yes, I noticed that, too! Odd that they didn't update that sat image, too.

August 1984 the 643 being escorted by two URR MP15's over the Turtle Creek Viaduct to the B&O. B&O moved the locomotive to the Glenwood shops. December 1987 643 was steamed up for the first time in three decades. In the 90's it was moved to the P&LE shops in Mckees Rocks

(Joe Jack) Photo credits.

  Rich: I was just looking at that sat shot. It can be moved out of there by road and its fairly easy. So before you start shooting me down. I have to go make dinner but will explain the movement plan in about a couple of hours. Need to get a better map to do a route recon and I need length and width and height of engine with out tender, tender and the water tender. But it can be done. The more I look at it . Too easy.

Beats me why, but they use other sat shots for different resolutions. I have no idea why. And from day to day, on the same civilian sites, you can see alternating shots of a specific area. For example, Google Earth once caught me standing next to my WW2 in my back yard (it's only been back there maybe 2-3 times and never more than for a few minutes as it's a good photo background there if you have a stepladder). That image was up for maybe a week or so, then it went back to a much older image and it never went back for the longest time. I just checked right now, and the image is from July as you can see the debris from my layout build stacked up before my wife made me cart it all away!

Here she is a couple weeks ago.

I'm sure it was either 1987 or 1988, there was a write-up about it in either Trains or Railfan & Railroad. I remember the photos showing it with wisps of steam coming out of various places.

Without looking, I assume this engine has somewhere between 57 and 63 inch drivers? Hence the low speed drag freight type comments. Small drivers don't have enough room for enough counter balance weight...

The 643 was purchased from the B&LE for $ 17,000.00.

Wow, only $17,000.

1983 scrap price...

The B&LE 2-10-4 has 64" drivers.

Stuart

I guess so.

Yes, but in 1983 that was a lot more money than today but still  reasonable.

Regardless how you feel about whether the loco should be restored or not the sad part is through out the years there were many opportunities for it to be more than scrap.

And he is not related to me, either.

It sounds to me that they are not aware of the actual condition of the engine, or that they maybe being misled by Mr Cambell. The bottom line is the cost of the pavilion is just one component of the move. It will cost a lot more to move and restore the engine to at least display status. This also dose not factor in maintenance of the engine and pavilion. 

My thoughts exactly. What funds are available to cover a move, the foundation and the cosmetics, but a $250K pavilion and then what? Have the summer students paint a happy face on the smokebox? There would have to be additional monies from historical foundations, etc., IF a deal was reached.

Here's a write-up on the cosmetic restoration of DMIR 229 in Two Harbors MN. (2011)

http://www.lakecountyhistorica.../mallet-steam-engine

Current scrap price fluctuates regularly from 180. to  320. a ton in Omaha Ne.