The resurrection of the TMCC upgrade

GGG posted:

Yes, the LCRU was all in one.  So if you lost Motor control, or receiver sensitivity the whole unit was gone. THey also were primarily for AC motors not DC. Though they may have a mod on one for DC.  Lionel rapidly moved into the modular design, with Mother board and individual R2LC, Power Supply and RS.

ERR coming full circle used the LCRU like platform with Back EMF Motor driver combined, but a pin header to plug in the R2LC.  Just like they made the RS Powered Mother board which combined a RS Mother Board with Power Supply for one compact RS board you plugged a RS Board into.

Later Lionel and ERR went to the RS5 /Legacy Lite which is one combined sound board.  Lionel stayed modular otherwise for RS and early Legacy.  G

PS Just remember when you buy LCRU your getting 25-30 year old parts with no cruise. 

Thank you sir!  And, yes, gotta have cruise if possible.

Bucky, there is no cruise option for the old postwar-style AC motors with wound fields.  You need to have a DC "can" motor in the engine to be able to have cruise control. 

It is too early to be discussing this when much of this information has not be given yet but will be clearly forthcoming. The speculation of this thread is not productive, all it is doing is causing people to worry more about a problem Lionel is working to solve.

Totally disagree! The whole thing was handled wrong. Even, if the upgrade path was to end. There should have been a "last' purchase like BTO.

The "rush" decision "seems" to be... (WELL) This forum is used both by the hobbyist and the Manufacturer's.

Simply, stated their intent could have been made here. It doesn't cost them a dime! They could have stopped the car from heading off a cliff!

It could have been a positive debate. Instead of a revolution! The "rectification" of the situation will cushion the obvious marketing blunder. But, The sad

part, They really do have me questioning", large dollar purchases of technology laced trains.

Bob posted:

Bucky, there is no cruise option for the old postwar-style AC motors with wound fields.  You need to have a DC "can" motor in the engine to be able to have cruise control. 

Yeah, I meant to say that I hope to heck someone does indeed market the ERR stuff for the cans I have.  Just didn't say it very well. 

shawn posted:

Totally disagree! The whole thing was handled wrong. Even, if the upgrade path was to end. There should have been a "last' purchase like BTO.

The "rush" decision "seems" to be... (WELL) This forum is used both by the hobbyist and the Manufacturer's.

Simply, stated their intent could have been made here. It doesn't cost them a dime! They could have stopped the car from heading off a cliff!

It could have been a positive debate. Instead of a revolution! The "rectification" of the situation will cushion the obvious marketing blunder. But, The sad

part, They really do have me questioning", large dollar purchases of technology laced trains.

 

LOL!  No matter how they announced this, the forum would go down the same path as it did.  A lot of folks handled it well, voiced their concerns, contacted Lionel and are waiting for the next step.

Well, when you think about it, we really don't have much choice but to wait for Lionel to make the next step!  No way we're going to directly change the course of the decision.  I'm thoroughly disappointed in the low-class way it was handled, but that's life I guess.  I ordered some additional PS/3 upgrade kits, might as well prep for the future.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm thoroughly disappointed in the low-class way it was handled

Well the Legacy Users Group may not be an Apple iPhone New Product event but we're hardly low class.  LOL! 

MartyE posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm thoroughly disappointed in the low-class way it was handled

Well the Legacy Users Group may not be an Apple iPhone New Product event but we're hardly low class.  LOL! 

 

Excuse me but, no one said the Lionel Users Group was low class. The statement was Lionel's handling of this fiasco was low class, which is 100% spot on correct!

john in western pa posted:

MartyE posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm thoroughly disappointed in the low-class way it was handled

Well the Legacy Users Group may not be an Apple iPhone New Product event but we're hardly low class.  LOL! 

 

Excuse me but, no one said the Lionel Users Group was low class. The statement was Lionel's handling of this fiasco was low class, which is 100% spot on correct!

Chill John. It's all good.   I used the emojis and LOL to indicate I was having some fun. I knew what John meant. I couldn't find the sarcasm emoji.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 I ordered some additional PS/3 upgrade kits, might as well prep for the future.

Not to start a brand war but:

If I EVER had to resort to DCS upgrades I would resort to conventional or wind -up or get out of the hobby all together.

MIKATT1 posted:

If I EVER had to resort to DCS upgrades I would resort to conventional or wind -up or get out of the hobby all together.

Looking forward to seeing your wind-up RR.

Lots of guys here have a wind-up Railroad, as soon as you start talking about their railroad they get all wound up.

MartyE posted:

shawn posted:

Totally disagree! The whole thing was handled wrong. Even, if the upgrade path was to end. There should have been a "last' purchase like BTO.

The "rush" decision "seems" to be... (WELL) This forum is used both by the hobbyist and the Manufacturer's.

Simply, stated their intent could have been made here. It doesn't cost them a dime! They could have stopped the car from heading off a cliff!

It could have been a positive debate. Instead of a revolution! The "rectification" of the situation will cushion the obvious marketing blunder. But, The sad

part, They really do have me questioning", large dollar purchases of technology laced trains.

 

LOL!  No matter how they announced this, the forum would go down the same path as it did.  A lot of folks handled it well, voiced their concerns, contacted Lionel and are waiting for the next step.

Please! It will not hinder my life!  As for me - they've altered my future buying habits.  All they did is wake me up to the fact in the future. I may own "TECHNOLOGY" paperweights.

Do, I really need scale F3, them scale f3 version 2 , then scale F3 stainless steel screens?

 I actually thank them! They broke my addiction. (Exactly, because of what John stated) My basement full of trains should last a long time. 

A wave starts from a ripple!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, when you think about it, we really don't have much choice but to wait for Lionel to make the next step!  No way we're going to directly change the course of the decision.  I'm thoroughly disappointed in the low-class way it was handled, but that's life I guess.  I ordered some additional PS/3 upgrade kits, might as well prep for the future.

Ditto! To the point and correct!

The posters on this forum are knowledgeable and passionate about the hobby, and some of us are big spenders on the hobby.  But I'd guess all of us nonetheless account for <1% of Lionel's sales in dollar volume.  I think that the chance (?hope) that this particular tempest in a teapot (read: minor moral outrage) will lead to thousands of hobbyists abandoning Lionel for MTH PS3 upgrades is about the same odds as you know where freezing over, thawing and freezing over again . 

Hundreds of miffed Lionel fans becoming consumed by PS3?  I doubt it.  Maybe a few dozen, which will please the people doing upgrades, but make absolutely no difference to the course of civilization or the toy train hobby. 

We are just not that important, and most of us are just waiting to see the outcome rather than predicting major shifts in purchasing patterns. So while Lionel is listening, they are probably not exactly quaking in their Nikes, and may even be having a good laugh or two. 

Bucky posted:

GGG posted:

Yes, the LCRU was all in one.  So if you lost Motor control, or receiver sensitivity the whole unit was gone. THey also were primarily for AC motors not DC. Though they may have a mod on one for DC.  Lionel rapidly moved into the modular design, with Mother board and individual R2LC, Power Supply and RS.

ERR coming full circle used the LCRU like platform with Back EMF Motor driver combined, but a pin header to plug in the R2LC.  Just like they made the RS Powered Mother board which combined a RS Mother Board with Power Supply for one compact RS board you plugged a RS Board into.

Later Lionel and ERR went to the RS5 /Legacy Lite which is one combined sound board.  Lionel stayed modular otherwise for RS and early Legacy.  G

PS Just remember when you buy LCRU your getting 25-30 year old parts with no cruise. 

Thank you sir!  And, yes, gotta have cruise if possible.

 The modular setup came after the LCRU series type boards. Including a receiver, motherboard, audio board, audio power supply and motor driver board. Then Modular went to the RCMC board with separate receiver.

So, if the receiver or motherboard dies they can be replace separately .One can argue the benefits of multiple boards versus one integrated board. Personally, I have my plus and minuses with both.

Anyway, for most older AC stuff the LCRU is fine. Maybe, not as smooth a performer as ERR AC Commander. But, if a LCRU is gotten at a good price its not a bad alternative.

The DC stuff is another story. Cruise rules. But, if the only upgrade path was a LCRU with rectifier diode to work with DC. Then, I would live with it.

The best part of the ERR stuff. Everything, the MASTER designed worked!

Back a few years ago I looked at 1 what I had, 2 what the cost was to buy new, and came up with 3 to purchase prewar and post war trains. I have enough in any era actually for my liking and needs but the bug is still there to buy. If they come back with a form of ERR, I'll probably buy some for my scale GG1's by Williams and Williams by Bachmann but if they don't well now I have 3 tpc's and 2 Power Masters to run my conventional trains with. I did thou get carried away ( in a good sense to me anyway ) with prewar 810/2810 - 820/2820 train cars since the beginning of the year when I bought a 810 crane and fell in love with the size lol. I now have 65 and counting  810/2810 - 820/2820 train cars LOL. Including 4 cranes. I also have at least a dozen or so other prewar cars,   I have about 6 or so complete post war sets 4 of them in original boxes including set boxes and who knows how many modern trains I have. My point is even thou this count probably doesn't even scratch the surface of what some of you have, I have come to the conclusion if I buy no more trains, I actually have plenty, but I know and anybody that knows me, knows I will not stop buying even when I run out of space. I'm not one that has to have scale and perfection in my trains. Each has different desires for there collection, Some they have to be as close as possible to real others just as long as they look decent. I will not stop buying Lionel, or any other brand if I see what I like. I have even come to the conclusion I might even buy a MTH or two engine if I see something I like, but don't think I will be buying DCS thou to run it, I'll just run it in conventional. But that's what makes this hobby so great as we all have different levels of what we expect out of it. 

Do I hope that some sort of ERR comes back? Yes! but will it upset me if it doesn't? not really. 

Landsteiner posted:

The posters on this forum are knowledgeable and passionate about the hobby, and some of us are big spenders on the hobby.  But I'd guess all of us nonetheless account for <1% of Lionel's sales in dollar volume.  I think that the chance (?hope) that this particular tempest in a teapot (read: minor moral outrage) will lead to thousands of hobbyists abandoning Lionel for MTH PS3 upgrades is about the same odds as you know where freezing over, thawing and freezing over again . 

Hundreds of miffed Lionel fans becoming consumed by PS3?  I doubt it.  Maybe a few dozen, which will please the people doing upgrades, but make absolutely no difference to the course of civilization or the toy train hobby. 

We are just not that important, and most of us are just waiting to see the outcome rather than predicting major shifts in purchasing patterns. So while Lionel is listening, they are probably not exactly quaking in their Nikes, and may even be having a good laugh or two. 

Agree! Except on one point. Tell, that to another Manufacturer - Decisions, years ago probably only angered a few...But, I'm sure the economic effects went beyond the people on this board. People, will talk you know.

rtraincollector posted:

Back a few years ago I looked at 1 what I had, 2 what the cost was to buy new, and came up with 3 to purchase prewar and post war trains. I have enough in any era actually for my liking and needs but the bug is still there to buy. If they come back with a form of ERR, I'll probably buy some for my scale GG1's by Williams and Williams by Bachmann but if they don't well now I have 3 tpc's to run my conventional trains with. I did thou get carried away ( in a good sense to me anyway ) with prewar 810/2810 - 820/2820 train cars since the beginning of the year when I bought a 810 crane and fell in love with the size lol. I now have 56 and counting  810/2810 - 820/2820 train cars LOL. Including 4 cranes. I also have at least a dozen or so other prewar cars,   I have about 6 or so complete post war sets 4 of them in original boxes including set boxes and who knows how many modern trains I have. My point is even thou this count probably doesn't even scratch the surface of what some of you have, I have come to the conclusion if I buy no more trains, I actually have plenty, but I know and anybody that knows me, knows I will not stop buying even when I run out of space. I'm not one that has to have scale and perfection in my trains. Each has different desires for there collection, Some they have to be as close as possible to real others just as long as they look decent. I will not stop buying Lionel, or any other brand if I see what I like. I have even come to the conclusion I might even buy a MTH or two engine if I see something I like, but don't think I will be buying DCS thou to run it, I'll just run it in conventional. But that's what makes this hobby so great as we all have different levels of what we expect out of it. 

Do I hope that some sort of ERR comes back? Yes! but will it upset me if it doesn't? not really. 

Lol, - I don't have to worry about the wife taking the house. I have to worry about her taking the trains..

The seven stages of ERR/TMCC breakup.  LOL!

1. Desperate for Answers

2. Denial

3. Bargaining

4. Relapse

5. Anger

6. Initial Acceptance

7. Redirected Hope

MartyE posted:

The seven stages of ERR/TMCC breakup.  LOL!

 

1. Desperate for Answers

2. Denial

3. Bargaining

4. Relapse

5. Anger

6. Initial Acceptance

7. Redirected Hope

I've well into your list Marty.

shawn posted:

rtraincollector posted:

Back a few years ago I looked at 1 what I had, 2 what the cost was to buy new, and came up with 3 to purchase prewar and post war trains. I have enough in any era actually for my liking and needs but the bug is still there to buy. If they come back with a form of ERR, I'll probably buy some for my scale GG1's by Williams and Williams by Bachmann but if they don't well now I have 3 tpc's to run my conventional trains with. I did thou get carried away ( in a good sense to me anyway ) with prewar 810/2810 - 820/2820 train cars since the beginning of the year when I bought a 810 crane and fell in love with the size lol. I now have 56 and counting  810/2810 - 820/2820 train cars LOL. Including 4 cranes. I also have at least a dozen or so other prewar cars,   I have about 6 or so complete post war sets 4 of them in original boxes including set boxes and who knows how many modern trains I have. My point is even thou this count probably doesn't even scratch the surface of what some of you have, I have come to the conclusion if I buy no more trains, I actually have plenty, but I know and anybody that knows me, knows I will not stop buying even when I run out of space. I'm not one that has to have scale and perfection in my trains. Each has different desires for there collection, Some they have to be as close as possible to real others just as long as they look decent. I will not stop buying Lionel, or any other brand if I see what I like. I have even come to the conclusion I might even buy a MTH or two engine if I see something I like, but don't think I will be buying DCS thou to run it, I'll just run it in conventional. But that's what makes this hobby so great as we all have different levels of what we expect out of it. 

Do I hope that some sort of ERR comes back? Yes! but will it upset me if it doesn't? not really. 

Lol, - I don't have to worry about the wife taking the house. I have to worry about her taking the trains..

 

I understand completely. But in my case she wouldn't sell them either as she likes them also, especially the prewar tinplate. She likes the bright colors. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

MartyE posted:

The seven stages of ERR/TMCC breakup.  LOL!

 

1. Desperate for Answers

2. Denial

3. Bargaining

4. Relapse

5. Anger

6. Initial Acceptance

7. Redirected Hope

I've well into your list Marty.

I must be near the end at #7 as I have bought a DCC set and a LokSound L board to put  in my Lionel 0-6-0 Dockside that Lionel nor ERR had a good command-sound-cruise fit for.  I like Legacy too much to convert those locomotives over but, if it goes well and I am pleased with how it works, I might convert all the locomotives I had for ERR upgraded to DCC and just mod my layout to switch between Legacy and DCC.  My brother just got into N gauge last year and I have been really impressed with the control and sounds of the upgrades he has done.  It's come a long way since my N gauge days in high school.  But I am still hopeful for and really want a TMCC upgrade path to open back up so I can use 1 remote/command system to control all my trains.  I'm just done holding my breath.

"I must be near the end at #7 as I have bought a DCC set and a LokSound L board to put  in my Lionel 0-6-0 Dockside that Lionel nor ERR had a good command-sound-cruise fit for.  I like Legacy too much to convert those locomotives over but, if it goes well and I am pleased with how it works, I might convert all the locomotives I had for ERR upgraded to DCC and just mod my layout to switch between Legacy and DCC.  My brother just got into N gauge last year and I have been really impressed with the control and sounds of the upgrades he has done.  It's come a long way since my N gauge days in high school.  But I am still hopeful for and really want a TMCC upgrade path to open back up so I can use 1 remote/command system to control all my trains.  I'm just done holding my breath."

You know, I do not expect to go this way - too much stuff and I'm 70, so what I've got will probably do - but I think it is time that all 3RO users who are a bit farther back on the timeline to learn about DCC, request it in our equipment and learn how to update locos with it. Everybody else does.

Now, I do not know anyone personally who actually likes it in the way that we like TMCC - in that comfortable, competent, favorite-pair-of-jeans sense - but there are multiple manufacturers, many operating options (too many, probably) and this s**t is everywhere - so as long model RR'ing is here, it probably will be, too. Certainly for as long as most of us older guys (50+) will be.

Let's consider moving away from the exclusive TMCC, Legacy and DCS. Of course, DCC can be proprietary too, I'm learning, but my understanding is that there are multiple manufacturers, so options are greater, I suppose. When diesels were new, most large and some smaller RR's bought locos from Alco, EMD, BLW, FM, even Lima - not just because the jury was still out on which brands were best, but to ensure that they would not be at the mercy of one manufacturer.)

I still prefer TMCC in the real world to all the others, including DCC.

But wouldn't it be nice to change your chuff rate by changing a CV rather than a blasted magnet/cam/switch? It seems to me that this could have been handled/approximated/interpreted with software and motor speed in TMCC years ago ("AUX1 + 1 or 2 or 3, Press Set...or the like for Slow, Med, Fast Rate")

DCC - perhaps we should embrace it. It does actually work.

D500 posted:

"I must be near the end at #7 as I have bought a DCC set and a LokSound L board to put  in my Lionel 0-6-0 Dockside that Lionel nor ERR had a good command-sound-cruise fit for.  I like Legacy too much to convert those locomotives over but, if it goes well and I am pleased with how it works, I might convert all the locomotives I had for ERR upgraded to DCC and just mod my layout to switch between Legacy and DCC.  My brother just got into N gauge last year and I have been really impressed with the control and sounds of the upgrades he has done.  It's come a long way since my N gauge days in high school.  But I am still hopeful for and really want a TMCC upgrade path to open back up so I can use 1 remote/command system to control all my trains.  I'm just done holding my breath."

You know, I do not expect to go this way - too much stuff and I'm 70, so what I've got will probably do - but I think it is time that all 3RO users who are a bit farther back on the timeline to learn about DCC, request it in our equipment and learn how to update locos with it. Everybody else does.

Now, I do not know anyone personally who actually likes it in the way that we like TMCC - in that comfortable, competent, favorite-pair-of-jeans sense - but there are multiple manufacturers, many operating options (too many, probably) and this s**t is everywhere - so as long model RR'ing is here, it probably will be, too. Certainly for as long as most of us older guys (50+) will be.

Let's consider moving away from the exclusive TMCC, Legacy and DCS. Of course, DCC can be proprietary too, I'm learning, but my understanding is that there are multiple manufacturers, so options are greater, I suppose. When diesels were new, most large and some smaller RR's bought locos from Alco, EMD, BLW, FM, even Lima - not just because the jury was still out on which brands were best, but to ensure that they would not be at the mercy of one manufacturer.)

I still prefer TMCC in the real world to all the others, including DCC.

But wouldn't it be nice to change your chuff rate by changing a CV rather than a blasted magnet/cam/switch? It seems to me that this could have been handled/approximated/interpreted with software and motor speed in TMCC years ago ("AUX1 + 1 or 2 or 3, Press Set...or the like for Slow, Med, Fast Rate")

DCC - perhaps we should embrace it. It does actually work.

Not disagreeing, but adding my two cents,

I run both both TMCC & DCS. Lately it has been a lot more DCS than anything else. I'm lucky as all of my TMCC conversions can be converted to PS3 if I so choose.

The latest PS3 locomotives have DCC integrated into them. You can install a PS3 upgrade kit and get the features you want, recycle your great smoke unit, and speaker.

I see what you are saying about getting to a universal standard so that no body is locked into proprietary control protocols, and because of that, I like the MTH approach with DCC integrated into the PS3 boards.

What I gathered on converting to DCC included buying a decoder but then buying proprietary equipment & software to load sound files and programming instructions that decoder. Again I feel like I'm getting boxed in with one brand equipment, although the control protocol is still universal. If this info about DCC isn't correct, please correct me, it was what I gathered/assumed with the brief research I did.

FYI: The Chuffrate in DCS is already adjustable.

The availability of ERR upgrades for my non-command and PS1 engines led to my standardizing on TMCC.  I don't have any desire for sound or smoke and ERR let me upgrade at the lowest cost.

I've been keeping an eye on DCC forever, and that might be the way to go.  It's an industry standard, and there are  plenty of sources for decoders.  I might look into more into BlueRail, but I don't want to be constrained to only being able to run/control one engine at a time.

Perhaps the Arduino based system described by another Formuite is the way to go; especially if cruise is available

Jan

PS.  Got refund from ERR today 

I think this thread should be re-titled.   I don't see any resurrection taking place.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think this thread should be re-titled.   I don't see any resurrection taking place.

Perhaps “Omen” of the TMCC upgrade...

D500 posted:

"I must be near the end at #7 as I have bought a DCC set and a LokSound L board to put  in my Lionel 0-6-0 Dockside that Lionel nor ERR had a good command-sound-cruise fit for.  I like Legacy too much to convert those locomotives over but, if it goes well and I am pleased with how it works, I might convert all the locomotives I had for ERR upgraded to DCC and just mod my layout to switch between Legacy and DCC.  My brother just got into N gauge last year and I have been really impressed with the control and sounds of the upgrades he has done.  It's come a long way since my N gauge days in high school.  But I am still hopeful for and really want a TMCC upgrade path to open back up so I can use 1 remote/command system to control all my trains.  I'm just done holding my breath."

You know, I do not expect to go this way - too much stuff and I'm 70, so what I've got will probably do - but I think it is time that all 3RO users who are a bit farther back on the timeline to learn about DCC, request it in our equipment and learn how to update locos with it. Everybody else does.

Now, I do not know anyone personally who actually likes it in the way that we like TMCC - in that comfortable, competent, favorite-pair-of-jeans sense - but there are multiple manufacturers, many operating options (too many, probably) and this s**t is everywhere - so as long model RR'ing is here, it probably will be, too. Certainly for as long as most of us older guys (50+) will be.

Let's consider moving away from the exclusive TMCC, Legacy and DCS. Of course, DCC can be proprietary too, I'm learning, but my understanding is that there are multiple manufacturers, so options are greater, I suppose. When diesels were new, most large and some smaller RR's bought locos from Alco, EMD, BLW, FM, even Lima - not just because the jury was still out on which brands were best, but to ensure that they would not be at the mercy of one manufacturer.)

This is my attitude, too. I started with Digital Dynamics, and now they are gone. So, on to ERR. Now they are gone, and the replacement is, for now, just vapor.

I still prefer TMCC in the real world to all the others, including DCC.

Same here,  But, as you stated above, the Lionel/ERR fiasco is making me change my mind.
On our club's small On30 layout we use DCC and it works very well. Of course, we're talking about controlling low-current motors. Once you look into higher-current O scale, the options decrease.

But wouldn't it be nice to change your chuff rate by changing a CV rather than a blasted magnet/cam/switch? It seems to me that this could have been handled/approximated/interpreted with software and motor speed in TMCC years ago ("AUX1 + 1 or 2 or 3, Press Set...or the like for Slow, Med, Fast Rate")

DCC - perhaps we should embrace it. It does actually work.

The limitation, today, for operation on the club layout is that DCC through the rails and DCS are incompatible, so to go DCC means adding AirWire, another expense.
PS- considering the troubles with DCS and the deficient TIU's, I'm not ready to complete conversion of my older conventional locos with DCS.

Jim Harrington posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think this thread should be re-titled.   I don't see any resurrection taking place.

Perhaps “Omen” of the TMCC upgrade...

Darn I was thinking the same thing.  We have yet to see any concrete proof ERR products will still be sold.

Not only that, but we do see concrete proof that ERR products are NOT being sold!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Not only that, but we do see concrete proof that ERR products are NOT being sold!

true that

Thinking along the lines of the title of this thread, and looking into what it would take to produce a reasonably priced replacement perhaps I could get some feed back from those in the thread, as it seems the people following this are the ones that would be most interested.  

It seems to me the primary product previously offered by ERR that people want access to are the TMCC with cruise for engines with DC motors, and the TMCC upgrade for universal(AC) motors (Please correct if wrong, but it's my impression that the AC motor control does not offer cruise?)  There seems to be little or no desire for other products offered by ERR, so would focusing on these two be the place to start?

The only products I currently own with any form of cruise control are LionChief Plus engines, and a K-Line Allegheny engine. I an assuming the ERR cruise worked in a similar  to the K-Line, but do not know that to be true, so I could use some clarification.  My understanding is that the engine should maintain whatever speed is set to the best of it's ability, however if there is not enough power available to maintain that speed, it should lock in a new speed that is the fastest that it can constantly maintain.  There is no scale MPH assigned to any speed step just 100 steps across the range from stopped to full speed.  

What other functions are required?  Couplers?,Directional lighting?, ditch lights?, Cab lights?(rule17?), Mars light?  I'm unsure what features are needed or desired.  I know that aside from turning the wheels any board I designed would easily support half a dozen on/off type functions, so determining what those functions should be would be useful.  

I can't find a MSRP for ERR products right now, but I seem to recall the board costing about a hundred bucks with the R4LC included, but without any additional hardware like electro couplers or LED lights.  is that correct?

Anyway, still kicking around thoughts, thanks in advance.  

JGL

> "There seems to be little or no desire for other products offered by ERR, so would focusing on these two be the place to start?"

Sound is very important to me.

Bill

From what I have done with ERR products, the cruise lite and Railsounds are important to me. The sounds are not a deal breaker, but are definitely a cool feature. Something I would like to see is a selection on the sound board. Set the board up so the sound board come fully loaded and let the end user select the appropriate sound file. 

I'm also interested in the mini commander HC  for operating cars.

I've used a lot of the boards in various projects, but I'll agree that my primary focus would be the big three.

• Cruise Commander
• Cruise Commander M
• Cruise Commander Lite

Of course, I do really love my sounds, so I'd like to still be able to get the sound boards, having an expanded selection of sounds would be icing on the cake, but at least the current set would be nice.

Not that much farther down the list is the Mini Commander II, I've used a number of those in small motorized units, I hate to lose that capability.  One of the things I really liked about TMCC upgrades over DCS upgrades was the ability to upgrade really small stuff to command.  The DCS upgrade in any form would NOT fit into this little guy!

The Sound Converter design and code were released to the public domain, so someone could build those, however selling then could be problematic unless you got a license from Lionel.

The Mini Commander ACC is another one that I've used a bunch of, again it's a compact way to add TMCC control to accessories, etc.

I just happened to check out Lionel parts, and they have two LionChief locos for sale for $89.00!

I wonder what it would take to dissect the electronics to put into another engine - one of my Bachmann locos.   Not TMCC obviously, but it would have sound.  Any suggestions or advice?   Perhaps even the smoke unit could be transplanted?

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	6108791R00 - PRR 0-8-0 LIONCHIEF E/T/R (NO DISCOUNTS) Locomotive Features: -Electric locomotive controlled by remote -Operating headlight -Puffing smoke -On/off switches for smoke and sound -RailSounds RC sound system with steam chuffing and background sounds, -whistle, bell, and user-activated announcements -Operating couplers Remote Features: Forward and reverse control knob Three buttons for whistle sound, bell, and crew announcements Requires three AAA alkaline batteries (not included) NO DISCOUNTS	$89.99
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	6108784R00 - SILVER BELLS 2-4-2 LIONCHIEF E/T/R (NO DISCOUNTS) Locomotive Features: -Electric locomotive controlled by remote -On/off switches for smoke and sound -RailSounds RC sound system with chuffing and background sounds, whistle, ---bell, and holiday themed music -Chuffing sounds in sync with puffing smoke -Operating headlight -Operating coupler on tender -Die-cast locomotive body -Remote Features-speed control knob-3 buttons for whistle, bell and music-Requires three AAA alkaline batteries (not included)NO DISCOUNTS

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Lionchief uses a tach sensor on the motor. Moving that tach sensor would be the hard part. You might be able to swap motor worms but thats not easy either.

Pete