The State of the Market?

Just my two cents and observations:

Newer, well priced locos with TMCC or Legacy are selling.  Older locos...post war or MPC or LTI....without the modern electronics....are NOT moving.

Postwar in Like New or better is still decent.  Postwar in lesser grades is almost dead.

Most MPC is slow moving or near dead.  However, it's very cheap....and is a good source for budget minded or $$$  limited people.  Stuff that we drooled over in the 1970s and 1980s has really bottomed out.  And when you buy that low, you can't really lose money on it.  While some of these have outdated electronics and no scale fidelity, they run like tanks and are almost indestructible.

Ross and Gargraves track and switches move fairly well....as are most "layout building items".

With the exception of some limited quantity Atlas items, rolling stock is really slow to move.  Post war rolling stock in less than Very Good condition and almost all MPC rolling stock in any condition....even Like New or Mint...is not moving at all and some times, can not be given away.

So, in conclusion, it all depends....like always.

Anyone who wants to donate anything they can't give away, please send me an e-mail. ☺ My boys would love it.

As primarily a buyer, and with almost 450 dollar payment for student loans per month plus 1000 for childcare and then other expenses, I am limited to mainly pw and mpc stuff. Especially with 2 little boys, the new tmcc/legacy stuff is out of our range for the moment.

I am fortunate I have a job that affords me some disposable income, but it does make me very choosey when it comes to purchases.

I guess that some folks still want postwar. Here is an EBay lot I have been following. It is not mine.

C W Burfle posted:

I guess that some folks still want postwar. Here is an EBay lot I have been following. It is not mine.

Yeah....but those appear to be some really nice boxes, wrapping, etc....and overall is pretty complete.

This is not your run of the mill 2046 Hudson and Tender in good to very good condition sitting on a table at a local train show with no boxes.  This appears to be a very nice, complete set....and there is still a market for something like this.

Very good find, CW....IMHO.  I can smell the smoke pellets and hear the E-Unit buzzing!

Very good find, CW....IMHO.  I can smell the smoke pellets and hear the E-Unit buzzing!

LOL, I am not planning to bid. Feel free

 This appears to be a very nice, complete set....and there is still a market for something like this.

That was my point.

C W Burfle posted:

I guess that some folks still want postwar. Here is an EBay lot I have been following. It is not mine.

That's a nice looking set but it seems the antiques dealer seller is overly fond of the acronym "MIB":

The 214 girder bridge on the right is listed in the description as:

No. 214 Plate Girder Bridge MIB

I'm assuming the "M" in "MIB" stands for "Moldy". 

Steven J. Serenska

People outside of the hobby don't always speak our language.

I have almost no Post War stuff that wasn't my grandfathers or from another long time family friend....but even I find that lot....outstanding.

People outside of the hobby don't always speak our language.

It's my impression that "MIB" is a term that was borrowed from doll collectors. I never heard or saw it used in the world of train collecting until the advent of buying / selling on the internet. The train collector term was "MINT"
Regardless, the seller is an antiques dealer. I have a feeling they know full well what MIB means.

I see stuff on EBay described as "MIB" or "MINT" that has obviously been used fairly often. Before bidding one has to be careful to evaluate the stuff offered there.

Berkshire President posted:

People outside of the hobby don't always speak our language.

Agreed, although I also agree with CWB that this is an experienced dealer who knows exactly what MIB means and shouldn't have described that bridge as MIB.

Here's my take on the set FWIW:

• The track, the bridge, the milk platform, and the 145C contactor look like they had been mounted on a layout board and that board was stored in someplace damp (e.g., a basement or garage).  The track and the platform got rusty and the bridge got moldy.
  
  
• The other items look like they were all carefully packed and stored somewhere relatively dry (e.g., the attic).  That's why they're actually close to what we would consider Mint, but are really more like LN/C8.  It's not a real stretch for the dealer to be calling them "MIB", however.
  
  
• Getting back to the concept that "People outside of the hobby don't always speak our language", please note that the seller indicates that the lot includes "Original Lionel train box for Outfit No. 1507WS".  Please also note that the set box is not shown in any of the photos.  My assumption is that the seller is thinking that the corrugated boxes for the loco and the transformer are the "set box".

I am guessing that none of the above is news to anyone who's interested in a thread like this.  However, if you're a bidder, please be sure to check with the seller concerning the set box.  My guess is it's not included.

It will also be interesting to see how the final price compares to the seller's opinion that this would go for "$450+ at fine antiques gallery".

Steven J. Serenska

C W Burfle posted:

People outside of the hobby don't always speak our language.

It's my impression that "MIB" is a term that was borrowed from doll collectors. I never heard or saw it used in the world of train collecting until the advent of buying / selling on the internet. The train collector term was "MINT"
Regardless, the seller is an antiques dealer. I have a feeling they know full well what MIB means.

I see stuff on EBay described as "MIB" or "MINT" that has obviously been used fairly often. Before bidding one has to be careful to evaluate the stuff offered there.

"MIB"?? Yeah, I've seen those movies. Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones are great!

PLCProf posted:

If you look at the whole listing and follow the link to his photo gallery, there are indeed a couple photos of the set box. But they are not in the ebay photos.

 

You are 100% correct.  I didn't follow that link.  Thanks for pointing this out.

Steven J. Serenska

40-year-old Phase Linear Amp processes the signals from the 20-year-old Carver receiver, making the 40-year-old Series One 901 Bose speakers sound like you are there in person.  One open trace fixed in the Carver a couple of years ago.  Otherwise fail-safe. Last two BluRay DVD players lasted about 2 years each.  $49 for a new one.

PLCProf posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

aussteve posted:

The older, high end,stereo equipment does bring a hefty price in today's market.  I was shocked when I researched the prices before I sold my stuff this year.  ...

That's because the audio stuff that's made today is junk and largely disposable.  Have you noticed the price of a DVD or Bluray player these days?  Even a nice model can be had for under $80 today, and those are all light enough to be tossed around like frisbees.  They perform well and produce an excellent picture.  But in a few years, it's unlikely they'll work.  And you don't fix them.  You toss them out and buy a new one.

 

David

Now, THERE is an example of a hobby that has completely disappeared. There is only extreme low end stuff and extreme high-end stuff built today, with a reasonable dose of the foolish. The is NO mid-market.

Yes it has. All the audio stores in my area are gone. As far as I know we now have only Best Buy. There were several very good audio stores here for many years. Sad.

But from what I can see on the other threads, the high end stuff has some real issues with items not to scale, open up the wrong way, ET AL.  I just love running the three 1990's MTH UP passenger cars with a Williams SP, MKT, MP or CNW Heritage locomotive.  

rtr12 posted:

PLCProf posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

aussteve posted:

The older, high end,stereo equipment does bring a hefty price in today's market.  I was shocked when I researched the prices before I sold my stuff this year.  ...

That's because the audio stuff that's made today is junk and largely disposable.  Have you noticed the price of a DVD or Bluray player these days?  Even a nice model can be had for under $80 today, and those are all light enough to be tossed around like frisbees.  They perform well and produce an excellent picture.  But in a few years, it's unlikely they'll work.  And you don't fix them.  You toss them out and buy a new one.

 

David

Now, THERE is an example of a hobby that has completely disappeared. There is only extreme low end stuff and extreme high-end stuff built today, with a reasonable dose of the foolish. The is NO mid-market.

Yes it has. All the audio stores in my area are gone. As far as I know we now have only Best Buy. There were several very good audio stores here for many years. Sad.

When I was really enjoying the audio stuff as a hobby I had two reel-to-reels (Teac and Magnavox, I think), two turntables (the aforementioned Dual 1258 and a Garrard) and eventually all Realistic receivers, tape players, etc. The Garrard was set up for 78's. All this ran through the computer to various speakers over the years and I used a program called Magix audio cleaning lab to restore the sound on those old records. A lot of fun and I built up a helluva library over the years.

Then one day it hit me - maybe I was overdoing it just a tiny bit. Going through the computer library I realized  that I had enough of just Christmas music to run for 117 hours straight without repeating a song version. Enough versions of Jingle Bells to make my Mom a 2 cd set years ago. By the way, this is my favorite version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWVjurtT3xE

Anyway, started selling the albums on Ebay with a cd - yes, it's legal - and gradually whittled down the stacks of vinyl. Highest price I got was $595 for a four record classical set recorded in the fifties. Most albums are practically worthless, so after a set time without selling I went through the stacks and heaved most of them out. Still have it all on the computer, though, and with a double backup, so usually when I'm staring at the screen I'm also listening to some good sounds. 

Lot of train records in the bunch - more than one might expect. Had an album (I think the title was A Royal Hudson) that was recorded up in Canada of a journey on the train. Recording of the crew plus some runby's. Lots of Hank Snow and Jimmy Rogers. Good stuff.

I think that is a superb set. To me, it would be an excellent buy at, or near, the current price. I've bookmarked that auction to see how it turns out.

I should think that, by now, natural attrition has become an irresistible and significant  force in the equation . Also, in my observation , layouts do fill up and collections do reach critical mass; at least, that has been my experience as a hobbyist and as Layout Refinements .

frankm

Ah those magical names, Sansui, Tandberg, Teac, Klipsch, Heathkit AR-15, Polk, Infinity, KLH, AR, Frasier, Kenwood, Pioneer, Sony, Akai, Marantz and of course Macintosh.  Brings back a lot of college memories.   I actually bought a tube amplifier and pre-amp at a garage sale recently just to see if I could get it going again.  Trains certainly took longer to evolve but the price tag went the other direction.  Technology allowed the price of hifi equipment to go down and the reliability to increase significantly.  For trains it seems to be the opposite; the price has gone up and the reliability, well just read this forum and make your own opinion.

I built a Heathkit AR15 and owned 2 dual turntables, but in IMO modern day electronics are as good, if not better.

My first Heathkit  was a 10 watt per channel amp, but I do not remember the model number.

PLCProf posted:

C W Burfle posted:

I suspect that my view represents most buyers today, though not all.

Yet the young adults my son's age are into turntables / records, and film cameras.

Yup, but that "bump" isn't 1 percent of the historical market size, and has had virtually no impact on the resale value of records or cameras! That bump in interest comes about because old records, cameras and turntables are virtually free, just like beat-up 2037s!

But just in case, I have a very nice assortment of film cameras that I will happily sell for 75% off my purchase price. Let the offers flood in!

A lot of that market for vinyl is not old records or turntables, there are a lot of new releases on vinyl, and sales of turntables (which aren't cheap) are increasing as well. Vinyl is actually the fastest growing segment of the music business, surprisingly, so it isn't just the equivalent of the beat up cheap post war stuff...same with tube amplifiers, too. It is a small market of course.

My direct recent experience on Ebay as a seller is that sales have come to a near dead halt. Business over the summer was quite good (strangely so) but slammed shut last month (Sept.) for some unknown reason. 

We price our new and like new Lionel items (all more recent offerings) very attractively from the get-go and lower the price after a while if they don't sell. There is a bottom to how low I will go, however, and I will then just keep relisting at the same price and wait the buyer out.

Most items do eventually sell if you are patient

bigkid posted:

PLCProf posted:

C W Burfle posted:

I suspect that my view represents most buyers today, though not all.

Yet the young adults my son's age are into turntables / records, and film cameras.

Yup, but that "bump" isn't 1 percent of the historical market size, and has had virtually no impact on the resale value of records or cameras! That bump in interest comes about because old records, cameras and turntables are virtually free, just like beat-up 2037s!

But just in case, I have a very nice assortment of film cameras that I will happily sell for 75% off my purchase price. Let the offers flood in!

A lot of that market for vinyl is not old records or turntables, there are a lot of new releases on vinyl, and sales of turntables (which aren't cheap) are increasing as well. Vinyl is actually the fastest growing segment of the music business, surprisingly, so it isn't just the equivalent of the beat up cheap post war stuff...same with tube amplifiers, too. It is a small market of course.

All I buy is "Vinyl" normally the 180 gram versions. Lots of reissues from the 70's and new artists including classical.

 Just picked up Jethro Tull : Aqualung and a "new age" album by Andreas Vollenweider called Caverna Magica ...Under The Tree - In The Cave

• The King is dead; long live the King

Why is the old stereo, records, tapes market equated to the old train market ??  Why not use the antique auto, old guns old tools or other markets ??  I would definitely call the old electronics, music etc a niche market.  The miitaria market is another with a broader base.

jim pastorius posted:

Why is the old stereo, records, tapes market equated to the old train market ??  Why not use the antique auto, old guns old tools or other markets ??  I would definitely call the old electronics, music etc a niche market.  The miitaria market is another with a broader base.

Mebbe some folks turn their locomotives on their turntables at 33, 45 or 78rpm...

Rusty

I would definitely call the old electronics, music etc a niche market. 

Toy trains are a niche market too,
I think I brought up old electronics and music (record albums) earlier in the thread, as an example of some old technology that some "young folks" want today.

aussteve posted:

Ah those magical names, Sansui, Tandberg, Teac, Klipsch, Heathkit AR-15, Polk, Infinity, KLH, AR, Frasier, Kenwood, Pioneer, Sony, Akai, Marantz and of course Macintosh.  Brings back a lot of college memories.   I actually bought a tube amplifier and pre-amp at a garage sale recently just to see if I could get it going again.  Trains certainly took longer to evolve but the price tag went the other direction.  Technology allowed the price of hifi equipment to go down and the reliability to increase significantly.  For trains it seems to be the opposite; the price has gone up and the reliability, well just read this forum and make your own opinion.

The Heathkit AR-15 ... for building a semi-auto rifle?  COOL!