THE Word **RARE**

The use of this word is one of my pet peeves. "Scarce" is another

Usually when something is listed as "rare" on ebay you can find a number of others currently on sale at the same time

Seems that "rare" and "I have no way of testing it" are two of ebay seller's biggest lies. I pass on these items

Sellers probably have no clue and couldn't care less if the item is or isn't rare but just throw the word around thinking that it should reel in the unsuspecting.

Does an item being "rare" or "scarce" or "highly prized and sought after" make it more fun to play with?

I like the way you think TNCENTRR

Same thing with sellers, many examples of which can be found on this forum, who list items as 'Mint' yet post a picture of their item out of the box.

To stay on topic, I think the word 'rare' is accurately used less than 2% of the time.   

I also think that 'rare' has become synonymous with 'expensive' which is not always true.   I have all the issues of the first year of OGR from back when it was called 'O-Scale Railroading'.   This is pretty rare, but they are hardly expensive or valuable other than to others interested in the history.

Now if something truly is rare and to own it would cost a premium I would purchase it if it's something I particularly want to collect.

-Greg

What none of these charlatans realize is, when they say "rare", it makes me want their item(s) a WHOLE lot less. 

I might have to start explaining to these fools that the only rare thing I'm willing to pay good money for is my dinner steak! 

i've used a lot of different words in searches, but i'm pretty sure i never tried "rare".

All this proves is that there are at least two sides on every coin.  Yesterday the discussion was collecting 'Rare' variations of items.  Normally rare is anything I want and do not have.  Will I look for an item to complete the set or series? Sure.  Is it always a 'rare' item? No.

My name is Bill and I am a collector.  There I admit it.  It took me about three years to get every cataloged Premier F3 that MTH made through the year 2000.  It is the chase, the hunt and the rush that goes along with finding that one item that you had been looking for.  The last F3 which completed the set was the Western Maryland.  It is probably not the rarest MTH F3 made but it was the hardest for me to find.  Turns out it had recently come off the shelf in the MTH warehouse.  Someone had made a deal to buy a block of remaining stock and that AA was one of them.

RARE causes the hunt that many times is fun.

In the olden days of the 1990s a thirty-year old piece from the 1960s was rare. It was fun to go on the "hunt" for the rare engine, car or accessory.

With so much produced since, the hunt today is a lot easier. 

The only time is use the word “rare” is when I order a steak. 

Grampstrains posted:

The one that gave me the biggest laugh was used by a dealer 35 years ago - "will be rare".

There is one dealer from the past I remember use to label things soon to be rare. May be the same guy. 

The people that use rare just means they want top dollar. Besides in the modern era there is no rare items, harder to find, maybe but not rare. 

Dave

I love the use of scarce and rare.  Then I scroll down  the page to see ten more of the same rare and scarce items.  

This is one of my pet peeves too.

Realistically, whether you are a collector or some other kind of model RR, you KNOW WHAT RARE!     When you have been in the hobby for a very short time, you figure out what is rare and whether or not it is of interest to you.     You don't need a seller to tell you an item is rare or scarce.

Sellers would be better off giving more of a description, such as year built or part number that clues in how rare it is.

Like most of you, there are 3 things that immediately turn me off to a seller:

1.   The item is listed as rare or scarce

2.   Has not been tested so I don't know if it runs

3.   Item sold as is, seller does not consider returns.

Rare is how I like my steak and burgers.

Grampstrains posted:

The one that gave me the biggest laugh was used by a dealer 35 years ago - "will be rare".

That would have been a true statement if applied to the National Bohemian reefers!

I like to frequently substitute the phrase "hard to find" in place of "rare," mainly to ease my family when I inform them of another train item I purchase. Usually the sentence will go along the lines of "Its hard to find this kind of car at that price in this condition" as opposed to "Its a rare item that I want to add to my collection."

That sentence has worked a lot in my favor, I got a Postwar B&M 6464 that way for only 25$ in...I guess decent operator condition!

But im no collector, I don't know what condition this car falls under. Looks decent enough to me.

when people at shows use the word rare. I immediately shut down and not walk but run away.

I just looked up "rare" on ebay and at the time that I searched there were 5,680,264 "rare items"!

Rare is an interesting term that lets me know that I'm probably not going to do business with that person on anything they are selling.  Just not worth my time to stop and look.

It really doesn't matter if something is rare, you still have to have buyers.

You seldom hear anyone talk about the one of MPC set made for the JC Penney chairman, the gold F3, or the real Boys Train from 1958 ( only four known out of 12 salesmen samples made).

Sushi tuna, pepper crusted seared outside,RARE inside...yum-yum

prrjim posted:

Like most of you, there are 3 things that immediately turn me off to a seller:

1.   The item is listed as rare or scarce

2.   Has not been tested so I don't know if it runs

3.   Item sold as is, seller does not consider returns.

 

It would appear that you haven't had a lot of experience selling, at least on Ebay.

With respect to no. 2, if it is a new item, and you run it to test it, it isn't new any more and can't be sold as such. This can cost the seller a lot of money. Usually, buyers prefer an item that is new, and it generally carries a higher value. Obviously collectors want new, unused items as well. If I have a new, unrun item, I never test run the item before listing it.

With respect to no. 3, many sellers put that statement in to hopefully discourage buyers who are just "kicking tires," and will return an item for almost no reason, if they decide for any reason they now no longer want it, or they now need the money back they spent, and other frivoulous reasons, or if they damage the item after receiving it. If fact, with Ebay's policies, the buyers can almost always return an item anyway regardless of whether it's listed "sold as is."

I've had a number of instances where buyers have returned items because after they received it, they dropped it or otherwise broke it, or damaged it in some way.  Right now I have a relatively expensive JLC UP Challenger that the buyer returned, which was new when I sold it, and was returned with bent parts on both the engine and the tender. Every ladder on the tender is severely bent, several completely bent in half and gnarled. The buyer got a full refund, and I'm left with an engine that has lost many hundreds of dollars of value, in addition to losing another $40 in return shipping cost I was tagged with.

I get a little defensive sometimes as a seller, because over the years I have been ripped off by buyers more times than I care to think of.

Well, I have a good deal of experience as both a buyer and a seller (at train shows and on Ebay) and my take is that most items referenced as being “rare” are probably not. There ARE a few really rare things and they are priced accordingly. 

When I list something to sell I use the term “somewhat hard to find” if I believe it to be true. I check both current sale listings AND sold listings on Ebay to see if the item has come up for offer any time recently.  That tends to be my guide.

Frankly, if something you list to sell is actually rare, no matter what you say, the knowledgeable buyers on the auction site will spot it and bid accordingly. You needn’t worry about getting a fair price at auction. Just don’t do a “buy it now” if you suspect it might be more valuable than you think; let the market set the appropriate price.

My two cents. 

david1 posted:

The people that use rare just means they want top dollar. Besides in the modern era there is no rare items, harder to find, maybe but not rare. 

Dave 

Can't agree with this. It depends on one's definition of "rare," of course, but there are quite a few instances where I have looked literally for years for certain items made in the last 6-15 years, without success. In my book those items are rare, and in fact I know they are, with not that many made. 

Even during the relatively new BTO era, there are some items that you can search for 'til the cows come home, and you're not going to find them. 

WRGMILW posted:

You see & hear that word at train shows & Ebay !  

Sellers seem to think they get more money for using that word !

Not with me  !  I just walk by !  Or page down !  

I am not spending more money on a item just because it is RARE !  

What about You ?  What are your thoughts ?

 

Exclamation marks! Not rare here! 

"Can't agree with this. It depends on one's definition of "rare," of course, but there are quite a few instances where I have looked literally for years for certain items made in the last 6-15 years, without success. In my book those items are rare, and in fact I know they are, with not that many made. 

Even during the relatively new BTO era, there are some items that you can search for 'til the cows come home, and you're not going to find them. "

My point exactly.     The seller does not need to tell you it is rare - you know that.

Milwaukee Road "Olympian Hiawatha" Heavyweight Passenger Car 4-Pack SKU: 6-25515

This is Rare & Scarce to me.

Not Anymore, I found a Brand New Set at a Small train store in Pennsylvania.

Dave Warburton posted:

 Frankly, if something you list to sell is actually rare, no matter what you say, the knowledgeable buyers on the auction site will spot it and bid accordingly.

J Daddy posted:

when people at shows use the word rare. I immediately shut down and not walk but run away.

Knowledgeable buyers, yes, but there are many buyers who aren't so knowledgeable. 

Talking about rare, a more cynical group than folks on the Forum is rare.  Personally, I don't run from a declaration that an item is rare. Sometimes it is, and for less-than-knowledgeable buyers, it may be a consideration. Some people almost like to brag about their adverse reaction to use of the word. But people are free to discard the information if they wish, and knowledgeable buyers shouldn't fear it. Sure, frequently - probably usually - it is what is called "puffing," being an exaggerated claim about characteristics of an item being sold. That is an extremely common and accepted aspect of selling practically anything in markets all over the world. 

For many, a seller saying an item is rare is a turnoff, which is OK. Like most here, my first reaction is skepticism. But to me, it's not a reason to ignore what's being marketed.

prrjim posted:

"Can't agree with this. It depends on one's definition of "rare," of course, but there are quite a few instances where I have looked literally for years for certain items made in the last 6-15 years, without success. In my book those items are rare, and in fact I know they are, with not that many made. 

Even during the relatively new BTO era, there are some items that you can search for 'til the cows come home, and you're not going to find them. "

 

My point exactly.     The seller does not need to tell you it is rare - you know that.

That wasn't the point.

The point was a response to the statement that in the modern era there are no rare items. Actually, there are.

I Really Hate the expression "MINTY", often used on E-bay. I don't want to sniff it nor eat it.

breezinup posted:

Can't agree with this. It depends on one's definition of "rare," of course, but there are quite a few instances where I have looked literally for years for certain items made in the last 6-15 years, without success. In my book those items are rare, and in fact I know they are, with not that many made. 

Even during the relatively new BTO era, there are some items that you can search for 'til the cows come home, and you're not going to find them. 

Indeed.  Given modern production run numbers, it is quite likely that there are more RARE pieces made in the last ten years than during all the PW/MPC/LTI eras combined.

breezinup posted:

david1 posted:

The people that use rare just means they want top dollar. Besides in the modern era there is no rare items, harder to find, maybe but not rare. 

Dave 

Can't agree with this. It depends on one's definition of "rare," of course, but there are quite a few instances where I have looked literally for years for certain items made in the last 6-15 years, without success. In my book those items are rare, and in fact I know they are, with not that many made. 

Even during the relatively new BTO era, there are some items that you can search for 'til the cows come home, and you're not going to find them. 

I'd have to agree. In the last year I've purchased 2 MTH Premier steam locomotives that came out in the 2004-2005 time frame, when I was finishing high school/starting college. At that time they were unattainable but now I could finally afford to splurge on them. When I was looking for them it took several months to a year to find them MIB second hand. I would say that's rare. Quite a bit of modern production can be rare, especially 3rd Rail stuff. I keep my eye out for a 3rd Rail Southern Pacific MT-4/5 4-8-2 in black in like new condition. I've been looking over a year and haven't found one for sale. I would consider that piece "rare".

But when someone attaches "rare" to a PW/MPC/LTI piece 9 times out of 10 they are not using the word "rare" correctly .

Apparently, the Vision Line Big Boys are "rare" now, they're going for way over the list price!

Being a collector of Lionel trains from 1900 to 1969 for over 45 years, I know what is rare and what isn't.

Isn't it just "puffing?"  Aren't we supposed to ignore puffery, and buy what we want?  "Recommended by doctors", " only driven by a little old lady from Pasadena" etc.?

Skipping an ad because of a meaningless word that you don't like might someday cost you a real deal.

eddie g posted:

Being a collector of Lionel trains from 1900 to 1969 for over 45 years, I know what is rare and what isn't.

You started collecting Lionel trains in 1900, then stopped in 1969, and that totals roughly 45 years of collecting???

Common core math was indeed a rare thing back then. 

"Rare" and "Scarce" items don't necessarily command high prices, even if they are correctly described.  The key to whether an item can (or should) command a high price tag is if the demand is much greater than the supply readily available.  Sometimes an item is produced by the thousands.  However if there are millions who desire it, the asking price may be driven up astronomically---especially if most who have it are just not inclined to part with it.

A rare VHS videotape player-only model probably doesn't command a high price.

However a Lionel "Toy Story" handcar would probably sell for at least twice its original retail price, although it isn't close to being scarce---let alone rare---at all.

I am not as annoyed as much about "RARE" in ebay titles as I am at the one that seems to be following it recently "L@@K".  That definitely makes me roll my eyes.

Anyway, I take everything at face value when I'm looking at a listing at try to my own determination on value.

It is good for a laugh sometimes what they put in the description.  One I saw recently "I don't know anything about these.  I haven't cleaned them at all.  The book value is over $8000".  This was a group of filthy postwar cars in pieces and a few engines which after some serious TLC might be worth $500.  They were listed for $4000.

M5 LIONEL 6-19925 LEARNING CENTER BOXCAR NEW IN BOX ~ …