Train shows, selling vs buying

I was at the Cal-Stewart show in Ontario, CA the weekend before Thanksgiving.  I sold 3 items on Saturday and only one $5 item on Sunday.  The show was mostly empty on both days.   Most of the sellers that I talked to were not selling very much and many left early on Sunday.  I didn't come close to covering my costs but I did have a good time socializing with the other vendors.  There was a lot of time to socialize because there were so few buyers.

 

I felt sorry for the many groups who set up beautiful modular displays.  There were no people to see them expect for the vendors.   

 

I think that this is the sign of the times in the used toy train market.

 

Joe

 

 

I don't go near train shows or ebay this time of year. Between Christmas, and heating oil, no train money to be had. Used to go to a great show at Ogleby's in Wheeling,WVa, and come home with lots of great finds. It was the first week of January, but they don't have it anymore.

Mike:

 

I have had good luck buying from the OGR Forum members. I suggest that you list some of your items on OGR.

I know exactly what you mean, no matter where a show is.

 

The chances of a seller running into a customer who is interested in buying what he or she has to offer is sometimes a very big roll of the dice. Same thing with the chances of having something that will sell to a likely larger number of people than something else.

 

One such case was at York in April was a guy selling Lionel building kits that looked in rather unglamorous selling fashion, and yet half of them sold by the end of the day - I bought one BTW. So I guess he had the right people with the right product at the right time.

 

On the other hand, I see a lot of Postwar dealers who come with the exact same product for sale in the exact same fashion laid out, even though they're displayed very nicely!

I've Always had success selling at the Amherst trainshow in west Springfield mass.  It seems to have the siZe and volume to attract vendors and buyers from all over.  I've sold ho o gauge 2 rail o scale and g gauge easily at that show.  Other smaller shows may only be good for selling certain gauges or certain price levels of trains. In some cases a holiday can drain a trainshow. For example, the weekend after thanksgiving tend to be a bad time. With so many people traveling serious buyers may be away.  The train show in Albany ny last year was the weekend after thanksgiving and suffered from low attendance. It certainly showed in the sales as well.  When scheduled other weekend this show tends to be a big hit.  Especially considering it modest size.

Just got back from a TCA train show in Pittsburgh (Cranberry Twp.).  For some reason this year, I have not seen good deals compared to the past with some exceptions, nor the variety of things.  In fact, some prices at the show are higher than new stuff that can be purchased on-line from dealers.  Therefore, at train shows, I generally look for old post-war Lionel cars and accessories.  If I want something new, the dealers who advertise on here are competitive, and there is a warranty from the manufacturers.

To summarize my above statements.  I've found the weekend after thanksgiving to be a bad time for sales and attendance at train shows.

I rather buy at a train show, then E-Bay or from forum, both which sellers over described the items, or not at all. In fact just received an item bought here in which parts were broken and missing, but able to fix from spare parts. At a show, I see and handle items, and dicker for fair price to both. Have never had a disapointment from bought items from shows, be it quality or price. Sending items back means repacking, shipping, etc. all which you as buyer incoure and non recoverable.

I'd rather buy at a show as well, but the purchases done here have all been great. 

I expected a low turn-out due to the Thanksgiving holiday. Hardly worth the airfare & hotel expenses. There's a two-day local show in Turlock, CA the first weekend in December. Since December 1975 each show seems to get better. This year there will be even more vendors. Train Shows are not like they used to be. Still, odds are better than Reno.

 

"Pappy"

I did most of my buying about 10-15 years ago- these days if I do buy something, it's usually an add- on car or set, track, or layout supplies. The market is filled with a glut of rolling stock, engines, etc.- buyers do have their pick of what's out there. Fortunately I was very deliberate in what I purchased in those days- I have maybe 18-20 scale freight cars to sell this year, and I think my prices are reasonable for what they are. I might even sell a few TMCC diesels, just to thin the herd.

 

Geno

Is there more O gauge stuff there now? I went to the Mid-America train show once about 2-3 years ago. It was almost all HO & N gauge, very little O gauge. Most of the O gauge they had was postwar and I'm all modern stuff with command control. Maybe it's changed? If not and still mostly HO & N, may not be many O gaugers there to sell things to?

 

Another factor for me is not having had very good luck with purchasing used items. Some have been ok for the price, but usually something wrong somewhere. I find myself having much better luck with new items and that's what I have mostly been buying lately.

I go to TCA-sponsored shows here in NC because most everything is O-gauge.  I usually buy four or five items while there and I see a lot of tables where I have to wait to buy because someone else is a head of me. 

It is a challenging time for hobby businesses that depend on the consumer with disposable income to spend. The demographics of those that buy the trains is changing. Factors such as consumer aging, downsizing, relocation, health, financial condition,  a market flooded with trains, changing interests of youth and an economy in a tailspin all play into this.  Life still goes on and the good news is that the fun factor of model railroading is still there to be enjoyed.

'

IMHO, a lot of the folks experiencing slow train show sales are often asking too much for what they have on their table.

The economy is tight, and buyers have a lot of merchandise from which to choose.

 

Admittedly, sometimes it does take quite a while the right person to come along.

In my case, selling a product for specific cars in both O and S gauge, I have come to expect relatively lower sales, then if I was selling rolling stock, engines or accessories. I do like the small local shows, as I can set up fairly quickly, and have a chance to shop all the vendors for about an hour before the start of shows. 

Along with my loads, I had some Lionel buildings, containers and a few cars I was selling for a friend. I also put out some extra Weaver cars left over from previous club car projects. There was very little interest in these, but you never know what folks are going to be interested in. As long as everything fits in the Tuscon, I take it!

The show I was at today in Pittston Pa was well attended with steady traffic until about 1:30, and several of the vendors I talked to had good sales. I will do this show again next year. Unfortunately, due to church activities, I won't be able to be at a show in Taylor Pa. next Saturday.

Don

I have long been of the opinion that the weekend after Thanksgiving is better than the weekend before.  Southern Division has long held a show the weekend before and it simply has never done well.  After Thanksgiving people are in the mood to shop.  Don Brill always held his NJ show the weekend after and did very well although I had not gone to the last several shows due to being out of state.

 

Al

As a buyer, I attend all the local shows. Big or small, you just never know what you might find. For me, I can usually find something interesting because I'm diversified. I like O & Ho, model kits, paper items, die cast, & all sorts of stuff. With that said, my biggest problem is with people that misrepresent their items. I've caught sellers in lies that would make a used car salesman blush. Once I see that, I get aggravated & don't enjoy myself & my tendency to buy something dries up. One thing that drives my son nuts is overpriced items that a seller has jacked up way out of the bounds of reality. When they're so high on a certain item (for whatever reason known only to them) there's no way to meet in the middle & we just shake our heads & walk away. 

  I like to go just for the fun of it, but I will say, since my dad died, it's not the same as it once was.

Selling trains online (off of the auction houses) is interesting, to say the least- I had one guy offer me $45 for 3 scale 3-rail cars (LMAO)- talk about a guy who's fishing for a deal. I've been in the hobby long enough to know what this stuff is worth, especially in good condition w/ the original box. $25/car is a decent deal- and I have interested parties w/ payments en route. It's hilarious, but I still keep it polite- the newbies might  get lucky and find comparable cars, but they'll burn plenty of gas and time driving around to swap meets and train shows. The smart buyers know this, and let the trains come to them. They'll also save more too.

 

Geno

I personally think the vendors at Dupage get together once a month to decide what to sell. One month about 6 vendors showed up selling circus trains.

Yeah, that seems to be a coincidental phenomenon that I've seen from time to time. Every once in a while, I'll see an item at a train show that I've never seen before, stop, comment on it, maybe even pick it up to get a better look, & then by the time I've reached the end of the show, I've seen 3 of them. Weird.

Greenberg Edison NJ show was big and hot. A lot of displays and some new vendors brought in a buying crowd. Many vendors were happy from the dismal summer show. 2015 will be a bit of a challenge because you have somerset in Jan plus wgh show at the end of Feb then the spring Greenberg show in March in the same facility which detracts from the uniqueness of the event.

Al galli, in Case you didn't know, Don Brill past away a few years ago and the Dover hs train show is no more....Unless you know otherwise or have a different website for info?

Hi Hump Yard Mike • I have done both at local shows, a sell table and walk a round and buy. I feel the 80's were the glory days for local shows in the Detroit Area. The AnnArbor show was always my favorite. All the shows have a test track to test out your purchase. The seller walks over with the buyer and they have the locomotive, evaluated by a local club member. Bob Cable of Highland Twp, was my favorite buyer & seller, back in the day. RIP

     There was one more guy called the "Boxcar" from South Lyon, Michigan, but I can not remember his name.

Cheers from Michigan

 

Well, since it only moved about 30 miles east I do not see the problem. I also object to my home area being called "the sticks" since it is not. You not attending is your decision and I am tired of where I live being berated.

quote:

I was at the Cal-Stewart show in Ontario, CA the weekend before Thanksgiving.  I sold 3 items on Saturday and only one $5 item on Sunday.  The show was mostly empty on both days.

 

I have to wonder how much advertising was done for the show.

The folks promoting our last local show handed out flyers for months in advance at antique shows. They put out lawn signs. Maybe they did other stuff too. The show was well attended, and people were spending money.

 

As another person that lives "out in the sticks" (suburban Chicago about 55 miles from the loop) I hope the people that feel this way don't move out "to the sticks" and ruin it for the rest of us. 

 

Art

Interesting how different people have different experiences at the same show.  At Cal Stewart, I have been selling there for many years and this year I had one of my best sales years.  Four of us sellers from Arizona (at least) and of the four I know, three had very good sales.

 

Given that, I agree that the public seemed to be very much less this year but from one experience I don't know whether that was from less advertising or a drop off in spending (note the Black Friday sales news articles saying that sales were down 11% from last year).

 

Also, as to buying, other than new items, I still buy almost only at shows where I  can see and check out items - and it is more fun that way too - discovering that gem hidden on a table!

Mike

I know right where you are. Had a friend that wanted to sell his Lionel collection and his Hess truck collection. He tried selling at a yard sale,(probably the last place you want to sell). He sold NO trains and only a few Hess trucks. he had Hess trucks listed at $15, dropped to $12. I offered to take everything to a local train show. But I was very adamant that the Hess trucks would probably not go for much more than $8 ea and the trains, he would be lucky if he got $500 for the lot. he had over $2000 for the lot of trains. I ended up selling ALL the trains to one dealers for $500 and the Hess trucks sold before the end of the day. He took in almost $800 including some incidentals. He was very happy. His stuff may well have still been sitting in his garage if we hadn't taken it to the show.

On the east coast, so I can only guess that the holiday had the biggest effect on attendance.

 

I've sold at local TCA shows only. There always seems to be a good amount of people walking into those with money in their pockets they don't intend to go home with. I've been selling for estate liquidations mostly, and only a few items from my personal collection, so I can price things very aggressively.

 

I've walked out of there with $2000 in my pocket while the folks beside me didn't make back the cost of their table. Why?

1.  I see a lot of overpriced stuff. Things you could get on ebay for less than half of the asking price at the show.

2. Then there's the tables filled with dirty, rusty, low grade items. Maybe they sold at one time, but now, you've got to clean them and get them in shape before people will pay anything above a "parts" price. 

3. And this is a personal pet peeve, I've witnessed vendors showing up just shortly before the general public and spend the first hour of the meet still unpacking boxes. It seems most of the transactions happen in the first 90 minutes at the TCA shows.

 

My conclusion - you have to stay well tuned to the current market prices. Follow ebay and the forums to see what is selling, and at what prices. Be ready with items that look good. And, be ready to take a fair amount home even on a great day. The buyers really change from one show to another.

Ive also tried selling on my own. set up my board at a local show and bought one table. set out my items at 8am on sat, the show didn't open until 10am. Sold everything before the show opened. Only live 10 miles down the road from the show, so went home sat night and put together some more stuff. came sunday morning set out my items at 8am, show didn't open til 10am. and once again sold everything before the show opened. So I would say, It all depends on what you are asking , because I priced things to sell. I did NOT want to lug it all back home.

When I wanted to unload a bunch of stuff, I took the whole lot to an auction.  Most of the rolling stock sold in the 10 to 15 dollar range, motive power a bit better.  A couple of sets went nice.  So some low, some high.  It really amazes me what some sellers think their items are worth.  Even here on the forum you see folks who truly want to sell a lot do pretty well.   Others predictably,  start high and keep posting "reduced". 

IMO, Ontario was a poor choice for Cal-Stewart. The city is a long drive away from where most O scalers live. Absence of visitors likely had more to do with that than any diminution of interest.

Timothy Sprague

quote:

3. And this is a personal pet peeve, I've witnessed vendors showing up just shortly before the general public and spend the first hour of the meet still unpacking boxes. It seems most of the transactions happen in the first 90 minutes at the TCA shows.

 

In my experience that depends on the show. At collector centric shows, most activity does take place early, often before the doors open to non-table holders. The NETCA and Eastern Division Train shows used to have a rule against opening any boxes and unpacking before the show opened for this very reason.

 

On the other hand, traffic and sales can be steady throughout the day at a show geared to the general public.

I had four tables at a show in Arizona a couple of weeks ago. I took in maybe $200, at a show I've been doing for several years and typically sell four or five times that. The crowd was thin and hardly anybody was buying anything. The grip on wallets was so tight that some absolutely amazing bargains went back with the vendors at the end of the show. The guy across from me had a like-new set of K-Line Alco PA's with TMCC for $150. Nobody gave them a second look. My stuff was priced at market (lots of MTH Premier and K-Line scale cars for $30, 25 if you bought more than one, Weaver cars at $15, etc.) and hardly anybody even looked at them. Everybody oohed and aahed over a tinplate freight Hiawatha, but no one had the slightest interest in buying. Pricing wasn't the problem; nobody was spending any money even where vendors were practically giving stuff away. Of the sales I made, I think every single one involved haggling - and not on expensive items, but on the cheapest stuff I had. A guy bought a cheap die-cast auto priced at six bucks and wouldn't budge on five. I didn't care about the dollar, but it shows the mood of the show. 

 

The sponsoring organization did the same advertising and publicity that has brought plenty of buyers in the recent past. It seems like nobody's buying trains this year, at least in Arizona. 

 

I'm not a dealer; I'm just trying to thin the collection. I look on the table rent as a donation to the nonprofit sponsor, so I'm not fussed about losing money, but loading and unloading half a ton of stuff and spending two days (a lot more counting prep time) is frustrating when there's no result. 

  And after all the pre-show selling, what "deals" are left for those paying for the privilege of shopping? Has the show got a bad rap from it? Banning pre-show sales at some VW, and comic book shows, I used to attend made them much better shows after a year, or two, of everyone adjusting. I don't often attend any shows offering "early bird" attendance either, unless entertainment is my only goal.

  Besides the amount of public offerings left, waiting causes more sales to occur during "show time", and an atmosphere of haggling and buying is often contagious, and most often would serve the vendors better anyway.

  And that's my tip for any show..See a buddies table with a crowd but no sales? Buy something, then brag about finds, and shoot the breeze in front of his crowd. It sets a mood, and "watchers" will almost always come check your stuff more closely soon after too. A show is only dead, and quiet if you let it be.